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hong kong chinese and other chinese


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#46 urofpersia

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 01:51 AM

Please don't generalise. I am a Singaporean who is both very Chinese and very Singaporean in different contexts. There are Chinese Singaporeans who despise everything Chinese, but the trend of the times is moving against that kind of parochial and snobbish anglophile atttitude. And there are far more Chinese Singaporeans who feel Chinese than ABCs who feel Chinese.

I speak in a vaguely British accent (but not RP) because my father hates Singlish, and because it is good sense for a future academic to communicate well with all kinds of people. But I can switch to Singlish any time I want. Many better-educated Singaporeans who make the effort can do the same. It does not mean that I want to be a Brit.

The way I see it, when you are speaking or writing someone else's native language, it is a sign of respect to not speak it in a way that causes discomfort to him or her. That includes not mangling the pronunciation or the grammar. For the majority of Singaporeans who will hardly ever step out of the country, it's not an issue. But for Singaporeans like me it does matter. The same goes for the speaking of Mandarin/Putonghua - the standard at which most Singaporeans speak it just won't cut it internationally.

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My comments are more for Heisui benefit rather than Yun, but quoting Yun as my following statements builds on his.

I would say it is only good sense for Singaporeans to be able to communicate effectively in English even if you are not an academic, Singapore cannot afford to be insular, a growing number of working adults in a White-collar job need to deal with foreigners at some point in the course of their work. Some, like myself, deal with them on a weekly basis, if not daily basis. English is the closest we have to a Lingua Franca and if you cant communicate your ideas effectively or make it easy for others to understand you, you are doing yourself and your company a grave disservice. We have a tendency to be closer to the aforementioned Received Pronunication when we try to speak proper English but that is only to be expected. i am somewhat amused if this is an indication that we are hoping to be a Brit especially since British implies nationality rather than an ethnicity. You may also be interested to know I use Mandarin when liaising with Taiwan or Mainland China.

As a Singaporean I can assure you the great majority of Chinese Singaporeans, even those whose command of Mandarin is vey poor arent ashamed of being Chinese. I am naturally referring to Chinese as an ethnicity here, not a nationality.
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#47 urofpersia

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 02:15 AM

The nite life isn't great but abundant in restaurants. If your on business and corporate AMEXED you will probably get taken to usual expat places. This A.B.C opinion.

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Trying to raise a chuckle or 2? HK has one of the most vibrant night-life in East Asia. A much tamer scene in comparison would be Singapore.
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#48 adoo

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 05:23 PM

.... Yes HK has a flat tax. Look up Tax....

if only you understand that "flat-tax" is the antithesis of tax haven. wish that you'd would stop embarrasing yourself.

The HK economy from the 1940's -1970 was a fundamental income expenditure paradigm

just some fancy words put together by someone who doesn't have a grip on economics. during 1940-1970s, HK's flat-tax system afforded a steady REVENUE stream, supporting programs to strengthen economic growth. It is a paradigm that many countries would die---but unable to execute---for.

Edited by adoo, 20 August 2005 - 05:30 PM.


#49 adoo

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 06:06 PM

Hi i would like to know how other chinese from other parts of china view HK chinese?

in the wake of the much publicized protests against China's inept handling of the " hand-over", swayed by opportunistic propagandists, for the most part, HKers are viewed, by most mainland Chinese, as prima-donnas and traitors. :no: :no: :no: :no: :no: nothing can be further from the truth.

HK is a vibrant---competitive and efficient---international city; it is cosmopolitan, fast-paced, and full of hustle and bustle. Invariably, its citizens are descendants of migrants from the mainland. Many---those who are hard-working, adaptable and competitive---have thrived/prospered in the pearl of SE Asia.

It has been a shinning eg of the middle-class society; the per-capital income approximates the median income---meaning that wealth is WIDELY distributed. This comparision illustrates the point
    China => 90% of its citizens earn < the avg per-capita income; higly skewed
    HK..... => 50% of its citizens earn < the avg income; even distribution.
    USA... => 30% of its citizens earn < the avg income; moderately skewed
Nevertheless, HK is not for everyone. Those who are not hard-working, dogmatically inflexible and non-competitive would do better elsewhere.

HKers are proud of, and vocal about, their Chinese heritage, as well as their enterpreneural spirit and many achievements. No amount of gratuitous HK-bashing by opportunistic propagandists will suppress HKers' confidence in themselves---prevailing above obstacles. In view of HK's many achievements, People (in HK, China and elsewhere), not given to propaganda, know that.

...The HK economy from the 1940's -1970...was a fundamental income expenditure paradigm

China's recent economic rise, over the past 26 years, has been impressive. That said, it pales in comparision to HK's meteoric rise, in the 26 years immediately following China's civil war, 1949 to 1975.

...The HK's scorching heat...

once again, HK is not for everyone.

Those who are hard-working, adaptable and competitive, have thrived/prospered under HK's scorching heat in the summer time. It follows that those lacking in these attributes can't take the heat---literally and figuratively ! :g:

Edited by adoo, 20 August 2005 - 06:27 PM.


#50 Chiang Kai-shek

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 11:28 PM

The general sentiment about HK people from the Chinese people i know (PRC, Malaysia and Singapore) is that HK people are very practical and selfish.
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#51 Miborovsky

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 11:38 PM

HK has a flat-tax system for the past 60 years---it is the anti-thesis of a tax haven. It has been the most tax efficeint economy in the world. Nobel Prize Economist Milton Friedman often lauded HK, pre-1997, as the last bastion of true capitalism.

Big fan of Friedman here, but gotta disagree with him here. The political atmosphere in HK at the time was simply not the ideal conditions a la anarcho-capitalist (of which Friedman espouses) style.

Mib, regarding an earlier comment by you: I think cockney actually is a dialect and not just an accent. There is lots of rhyming slang in cockney that is simply incoherent to non-cockneys.

I guess region-specific vocabulary is difficult to generalise into either side... Different accents of Standard American English have minute differences in their vocabulary as well, but none as drastic as Cockney... :g:
All characters and events in the above post -- even those based on real people -- are entirely fictional, and as such, should not be taken seriously, except in a fictional way. All facts are fabricated... poorly. This post contains extreme neo-contraantidisestablishmentarian political ideas and due to its contents it should not be viewed by anyone. The author is not responsible for any emotional stress, physical harm, international tensions or global thermonuclear war that may result from viewing this post.

#52 thedamnrainman

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Posted 22 August 2005 - 03:29 PM

ahhh I didn't know Heisui held such a view. Please don't generalize. You(Heisui) may have had some bad experiences with some cantonese speaking people but that does not mean they are all bad( or in this case xenophobic).

#53 urofpersia

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 12:34 AM

The general sentiment about HK people from the Chinese people i know (PRC, Malaysia and Singapore) is that HK people are very practical and selfish.

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As a Singaporean and I find HKers very fun to be with.
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#54 adoo

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 10:40 PM

The general sentiment about HK people from the Chinese people i know (PRC, Malaysia and Singapore) is that HK people are very practical and selfish..

..As a Singaporean and I find HKers very fun to be with

selfish is an uncomplimentary word for competitive.

HKers work hard and live hard. they're bon vivants. supposedly, on a per-capita basis, HKers consume more Cognac than anyone else, except the French, in the world.

#55 ZengZicong

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 08:23 PM

What is so D**n special about the hong kongers that makes it okay for them to look down on every body else (except for westerners and japanese) especially the mainlanders, if you just watch some of thier movies or TV shows you can see they always make fun of mainlanders. HKers will be prejudice against you just because you have a different accent, dialect, or you dress differently, have a low income or if your from somewhere thats not as rich as HK etc. I am a mainlander and one time me and my family were going to China and we stopped at HK airport and my mom made a phone call to our family in China and my mom speaks cantonese but with a shunde accent, immediatly all the HKers that heard us stared at us like we were freaks or something just because we had a different accent. Hong Kongers worships westerners, I bet they would rather be a british dog then be a chinese person. They are always like 6 4! Oh My God!, big ******* deal! there are lots of countries out there thats done worst things then that in history. Why don't they whine about how the western countries use to sell opium into china and treated the chinese like dirt and killed countless chinese instead of whining about 6 4 all the time. I'm not talking about all HKers but most of them, some are very nice. Thats how I feel. I bet alot of mainland chinese out there feels the same as I do.

#56 adoo

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 10:29 PM

....What is so D**n special about the hong kongers that makes it okay for them to look down on every body else (except for westerners and japanese :no:  :no: ) especially the mainlanders, if you just watch some of thier movies or TV shows you can see they always make fun of mainlanders.

their TV shows/movies run the gamut; frequently poking fun at the Japanese, Westerners, overseas Chinese and HKers themselves. :haha:

eg, the Bruce Lee movies , show Bruce kicking the c**p out of the Westerners.

HKers will be prejudice against you just because you have a different accent, dialect, or you dress differently, have a low income or if your from somewhere thats not as rich as HK etc. I am a mainlander and one time me and my family were going to China and we stopped at HK airport and my mom made a phone call to our family in China and my mom speaks cantonese but with a shunde accent, immediatly all the HKers that heard us stared at us like we were freaks or something just because we had a different accent.

let's flip it around, in your hometown, would a group of people speaking Cantonese or English/French /Arabic/Hebrew draw attention from the locals ? :g: :g:

ps---for those who do not have an inferior complex, staring doesn't mean prejudice, it connotes inquiring minds & curiosity :g:

Hong Kongers worships westerners, I bet they would rather be a british dog then be a chinese person.

that is just ignorant. HKers bid good riddance to the Brits by giving them the proverbial significent finger.

While under British rule, over 100 years, HKers resisted the pressure to adopt English as the official language.
why maintain Chinese as the official language ?? could it be that HKers are proud of their Chinese heritage ? :g:

big ******* deal! there are lots of countries out there thats done worst things then that in history.

name one :g:

Why don't they whine about how the western countries

only all the time; but those who are un-inforumed---and easily sway by propaganda, which you appear to be---do not know that :g:

I bet alot of mainland chinese out there feels the same as I do.

actually you're wrong again. if only you'd read overseas Chinese newspapers, the consensus (among mainland Chinese living overseas) is that China screwed-up royally in handling the "hand-over"

ps, ZZ, HKers are Chineses; their ancesters are mainland Chinese. Deal with it :g:

Edited by adoo, 24 August 2005 - 10:31 PM.


#57 ZengZicong

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 01:09 AM

name one :g:

Amritsar Massacre

Bloody Sunday

Andijan Massacre

actually you're wrong again.  if only you'd read overseas Chinese newspapers, the consensus (among mainland Chinese living overseas) is that China screwed-up royally in handling the "hand-over"

thats because overseas chinese news papers are mostly taiwanese and they just want to talk bad about China. And overseas chinese are exposed to western propagonda that talks bad about china.

ps, ZZ, HKers are Chineses; their ancesters are mainland Chinese.  Deal with it :g:

Yes thier ancesters were mainland chinese and are proud of thier heritage but the new generations that lived in HK all thier lives all look down on mainlanders and think they are better than us because they've been exposed to western propagonda.

#58 Guest_brashboy_*

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 02:12 AM

I like Hong Kong judges with their wigs on. They look pretty kool :)


Seriously I have a couple of HK friends, very fun to be around with. On the outside they seem materialistic and a bit shallow but they are no different from people who live in the big cities of the US.

I guess the bad perception of mainlanders comes from portrayal of mainlanders as either prostititutes, mistresses, or illegal immigrants :D

To be fair to the HKers, I think they are not the only ones who discriminate. Actually the mainlanders and Taiwanese look down on HKers, not overtly but discreetly. They view HKers as street type money-making folks who are not too highly educated and overly westernized. To them HKers don't fit the definition of good chinese people. The mainlanders may be poorer but they consider themselves to be better type of chinese than HKer. It is a different form of discrimination if you ask me

Just an outsiders opinon don't flame :)

Edited by brashboy, 25 August 2005 - 02:15 AM.


#59 Klamath

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 06:24 AM

To be fair to the HKers, I think they are not the only ones who discriminate.  Actually the mainlanders and Taiwanese look down on HKers, not overtly but discreetly. They view HKers as street type money-making folks who are not too highly educated and overly westernized. To them HKers don't fit the definition of good chinese people. The mainlanders may be  poorer but they consider themselves to be better type of chinese than HKer. It is a different form of discrimination if you ask me

Just an outsiders opinon don't flame :)

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Edited by Klamath, 25 August 2005 - 06:56 AM.

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#60 AhMan

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 08:19 PM

but I heard Hongkonger also look down on mainland Chinese: they say being poor is a crime, not a pride; one should get rich by hook or by crook while some communist-brainwashed mainland Chinese thought otherwise.
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