44 replies to this topic

[reizer]

I'm very confuse bout 3k's populations.. many wars had happened but they still had many people<folk,army,etc> in their country ...somebody please help me to solve this simple questions...xie-xie...

[Yun]

The Chapter on Geography in the Jin Shu gives statistics for the census in the Western Jin, following the reunification of the Three Kingdoms.

Population in households...

Formerly Wei provinces:
Sizhou - 475,700
Yanzhou - 83,300
Yuzhou - 116,796
Jizhou - 326,000
Youzhou - 59,020
Pingzhou (semi-independent under the Gongsun until 238) - 18,100
Bingzhou - 59,300
Yongzhou - 99,500
Liangzhou - 30,700
Qinzhou - 32,100
Qingzhou - 53,000
Xuzhou - 81,021

Formerly Shu-Han provinces:
Liangzhou - 76,300
Yizhou - 149,300
Ningzhou - 83,000

Formerly Wu provinces:
Jingzhou - 357,548
Yangzhou - 311,400
Jiaozhou - 25,600
Guangzhou - 43,120

One can see from this just how much of a disadvantage the Shu-Han had in population size.

[Yun]

Additional statistics from the Sanguo Zhi that I just found...

In the Jiang Wei period, the population of Shu-Han was 280,000 households of 940,000 men and women. The number of soldiers was 102,000 and the number of officials was 20,000. On average, 9 people were paying taxes to support one soldier, and 7 households were supporting one official. This was an indication of the steady decline of the Shu-Han economy as a result of heavy taxation and Jiang Wei's constant northern expeditions.

In the Wu under Sun Hao, the population was 523,000 households of 2.3 million men and women. There were 230,000 soldiers and 32,000 officials. On average, 10 people were paying taxes to support one soldier. The Wu economy was also declining steadily.

[Yun]

Statistics for the Wei in 273:

663,423 households of 4,432,881 men and women.

[cy_88]

Here's some stats I found a while ago:

Wu: 242 AD, 532,000 families, 2,400,000 people
Shu: 263 AD, 280,000 families, 940,000 people
Wei, 263 AD, 663,423 families, 4,432,881 people

So yea, the population of the 3 Kingdoms period is small due to the destruction that preceded it.

[GuanYu]

I've read that during the Jin dynasty (The one that the Sima clan created) took a census of China after the reunification of the Three Kingdoms and it was around 16 million. By contrast, the Eastern Han had a population of around 56 million. Even if the figures are inaccurately taken, there is no denial the destruction that the Three Kingdoms brought. Even though this chapter in Chinese history is heavily romanticized, make no mistake about it, it was easily one of the China's bloodiest chapters in her long history.

[vp98]

No wonder Jin dynasty did not last.

Mostly importantly, the loss of Jingzhou, spelt doom for Shu Han to recover the whole country.

Curiously, Wei only had a population of 4 million. How did Yuan Shao (in control of a small area than wei) and latter Cao Cao command a army of 1 million?

[Yun]

Yuan Shao only had 100,000 infantry and 10,000 cavalry at Guandu, while Cao Cao only had 150,000 to 160,000 troops at Chibi, despite claiming it to be 800,000 to scare Sun Quan.

Even Fu Jian's supposed 1.12 million man army in the Fei River campaign (according to the records) only had 308,000 troops actually engaged in the Fei River battle.

[Borjigin Ayurbarwada]

The census at this time is meaningless especially due to war. Modern demographic science give a much better estimation and gives the 3 kingdom population at 25 million people(the all time low in Chinese history since the Shu Han period.) While Eastern Han's population probably reached a brink of 70 million right before the yellow Turban rebellion.

[Yun]

(the all time low in Chinese history since the Shu Han period.)

I believe you mean the Chu-Han War?

[Borjigin Ayurbarwada]

Yes, i did.

[reizer]

...mmm, so the hundred thousand troop of cao-cao(830,000) in chibi was fake?? I don't really believe the number soldiers in chibi<t00 manY>....

[青文景武剑]

The Chapter on Geography in the Jin Shu gives statistics for the census in the Western Jin, following the reunification of the Three Kingdoms.

Population in households...

Formerly Wei provinces:
Sizhou - 475,700
Yanzhou - 83,300
Yuzhou - 116,796
Jizhou - 326,000
Youzhou - 59,020
Pingzhou (semi-independent under the Gongsun until 238) - 18,100
Bingzhou - 59,300
Yongzhou - 99,500
Liangzhou - 30,700
Qinzhou - 32,100
Qingzhou - 53,000
Xuzhou - 81,021

Formerly Shu-Han provinces:
Liangzhou - 76,300
Yizhou - 149,300
Ningzhou - 83,000

Formerly Wu provinces:
Jingzhou - 357,548
Yangzhou - 311,400
Jiaozhou - 25,600
Guangzhou - 43,120

One can see from this just how much of a disadvantage the Shu-Han had in population size.

imagine if Shu had Liangzhou(Machao) and Jingzhou(Guanyu), that will make Shu a much bigger country, and much more population. as you can see Jingzhou is the most populated Wu province

[Liu Bei]

...mmm, so the hundred thousand troop of cao-cao(830,000) in chibi was fake?? I don't really believe the number soldiers in chibi<t00 manY>....

Yes, I don't believe in 830,000 either, I think it is more like 200,000.

[Liu Bei228]

I've read that during the Jin dynasty (The one that the Sima clan created) took a census of China after the reunification of the Three Kingdoms and it was around 16 million. By contrast, the Eastern Han had a population of around 56 million. Even if the figures are inaccurately taken, there is no denial the destruction that the Three Kingdoms brought. Even though this chapter in Chinese history is heavily romanticized, make no mistake about it, it was easily one of the China's bloodiest chapters in her long history.

There were alot of natural disater, famine, bandits and so on so you can't blame it on the battles that happened though they did contribute I think it was mostly famine.