127 replies to this topic

[Peace]

Relocate to China.

It's not easy for Chinese Indonesian to relocate to China or any other country unless they are very rich. Not to mention to China, since many Chinese Indonesian cannot speak China and don't have official Chinese name.

[bloodmerchant]

More Chinese Indonesians are having a better time in America than in Indonesia. I met many such Chinese families from Indonesia who live in the United States.

[Peace]

More Chinese Indonesians are having a better time in America than in Indonesia. I met many such Chinese families from Indonesia who live in the United States.

Yes, that's true. More and more Chinese Indonesian leave Indonesia for US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, etc. That's good for them.

Anyway, since the relationship between China and America is not good. How about the treatment for Chinese descent there ? Someone stated it's becoming worse. Is it true ?

Thanks for the answer.

Edited by Peace, 18 August 2011 - 11:11 PM.

[bloodmerchant]

Yes, that's true. More and more Chinese Indonesian leave Indonesia for US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, etc. That's good for them.

Anyway, since the relationship between China and America is not good. How about the treatment for Chinese descent there ? Someone stated it's becoming worse. Is it true ?

Thanks for the answer.

I think the relationship between China and America is sort of love-hate, hot-cold. China always wants to reduce conflict, but America seems to be ambiguous. In any case, the vast majority of Chinese-Americans are either assimilated or integrated (to the point that some older generations fear that their descendants won't be Chinese anymore). So I think Chinese in America are treated much better than if they are in Indonesia, by comparison.

[monterado]

At last I found peoples that have compassionate feeling to the Indonesian chinese, here in this forum.thanks to Almighty God,,may all of our ancestors the victim of racial violence ,,,all the innocent chinese overseas that has died because the inhumane tragedy,bless with the heaven forever...........

As one of the young indonesian chinese that I born and brought up in this very hard situation in indonesia,,,I had a great and deep concern,,about my peoples history and future here.

Yes it's true,my grandmother,,my father ,,my mother,,and much of my relatives here,,,are the silent victim ,when in 1967 ,,the indonesian regime,,with their military general soeharto,,ordered for massacre in west borneo,,they killed the OC everywhere without any true reason ,,,because the regime need someone to blame for the clash between PKI (indonesian communist party) and the military regime (soeharto),,,which the regime been back up by the islamic force . Since the communist was the only one power that could rival the islamic to be the dominant power in the nation. So,,they (military +islam) will done everything to crush the PKI,,(coz in reality they do afraid of the communist).
And if today we find in the history book,which,told later by the winner (military),,,that the PKI was who must responsible for the situation at that time.........THE FACT is all of the story they told is all big lie...lie,,,its a very false history that create by the military themself.
The only true fact,,is come from the innocent that been the victim that time,,,,most of them died and the rest is live in very sad condition.and OC is the part of the victim.
The real fact,,that was the military and islamic whose want to revolt and create their new regime,,by blaming the innocent as communist..and they did it....as today we can see what kind of goverment that in indonesia now,,,,,,1969-1998 (military regime under soeharto) and the islamic is the only power that rules till now 2011.

Back to 1967 ,,to west borneo,,there was my ancestor homeland in indonesia,,my great grandfather till my parents.
As the old, told me their miserable story,,
We chinese overseas,,lived in most of west borneo,,since a long time ago,,and the God ,,blessed us with a land of prosperity...most of them were farmer,,
We lived peacefully,,,we had a large farm/paddy field,,,lot of cattles,,our ancestor was very good in farming,,,so there was plentyfull of rice,fruits,,milk,,egg,,etc
part of them also miners,,,and the rest were traditional business man.
most of them dont know anything about PKI/communist....they didn't do politics at all,,,,they just know how to manage the land to be heaven for the next generation.We even didn't need the outside world to be survived at the time.
Then came,,the military under the command of soeharto,,without any reason,,,they came and kill,,just like a troop of zombie.(islamic zombie)
About 70000 OC were killed,,,and also ten of thousand other forced to leave they land ,they home,without bring anything at all.
The innocent were killed without any explanation,,,the old left behind and died lonely without funeral,,the young been killed,,part of them run for their live.
I remember my mother told me,,that even the forest and the land,,became very sad for us,,,days before the military came,,,,the sky looked strange,,,in the afternoon we could saw the sky very dark and became red.....even the river (the source of the life) became drought just in one night....the bird was no singing,,the ants were moved their den ,,the land look so sad at that time..the forest very silent............may be the God was crying for us...........
As the fact today,,,,40 years after,,,our land today has vanished and become a jungle,,veri big jungle as they were in the past....the God take it,,and keep it again,,,God will not give them to the indonesian,,,not even a little bit of land.It's better to be a jungle,,than be takeover by the indonesian.

This story is just a bit part of the whole history from the OC here in indonesia...as we know many more has and to come,,,such as the 1998 tragedy,,,I was 17 that year,,and once again I saw the humanity crime did by the indonesian.........Only God could help us to take the revenge

[monterado]

The idea to relocate the OC from indonesia just can be real if the PRC open their hand to help us to provide all the way....or minimally if the PRC doesn't want to be involved tu vulgar..there must be the World Chinese Overseas Organisation do it ..........

The dream is,,all chinese overseas,,where ever they come from,,,US/Europe/Asia/Australia,,,must stand together in an organisation,,such as UN or something like that,,,so when ever and where ever,,there is the OC in very dificult condition in their country.....the organisation could legally help them find the way out...in the name of the world organisation. with or without PRC.

so the main idea,,,,we,,,the chinese overseas all over the world must united in the mission to help the OC in the other part of world.
We can open the headquarter office in the "freedom" OC country such as singapore...and ..taiwan.
From there we can put the foundation to help each other...............I think its necessary urgent this time,,,,before the OC get another inhumane rascial tragedy.

"If we can not change the enemy,,,than we should change our self".......the option of change here are:
1. we surrendered to the condition ,,,we convert to be islam,,,do not try to remember our ancestor,,our root,,our blood....just life as their zombie,,,,now and our next generation will not be the chinese anymore.,,,since we loose our self and soul.
2. we change our pattern ,,where now we just fight alone,,and die alone,,,,to be,,,,,,,fight together and die together,,still as the chinese...still with our pride as human.
If we lose we will die in honor as our ancestor,,died in the arm of the GOD.....if we success,,than we paid with the "freedom".....then our next generation will still life in their way as the chinese....the freedom is valuable than anything........I exactly now it, coz I am too,, born and live without my freedom now.

SO,there is 2 option above,,,,,please ,,it seems very absurd,,,,but its the fact for us who lived in indonesia.
so unite overseas chinese together.....in one big hand we can stand stronger and find the wayout.
Any one,,overseas chinese,,,where ever you are........if you have the same mind with me,,,,,,,,wake up and start to create the foundation of our organisation.
Especially for you OC,,who bless with power,money and,rich,,,,,,,,,please....unite us,,..we will follow you.

[xng]

Unfortunately, chinese are a selfish race that does not think of the community as a whole unlike the Japanese and most countries in Europe who are very united.

The chinese are more concerned with their own self and how rich they will become.

The only people in the world who can help overseas chinese in Indonesia, Malaysia who face racial discrimination are the overseas chinese in America and Europe because they have the money and the power. But do they really care if PRC don't even care ?

Edited by xng, 30 September 2011 - 07:18 AM.

[Peace]

At last I found peoples that have compassionate feeling to the Indonesian chinese, here in this forum.thanks to Almighty God,,may all of our ancestors the victim of racial violence ,,,all the innocent chinese overseas that has died because the inhumane tragedy,bless with the heaven forever...........

As one of the young indonesian chinese that I born and brought up in this very hard situation in indonesia,,,I had a great and deep concern,,about my peoples history and future here.

Yes it's true,my grandmother,,my father ,,my mother,,and much of my relatives here,,,are the silent victim ,when in 1967 ,,the indonesian regime,,with their military general soeharto,,ordered for massacre in west borneo,,they killed the OC everywhere without any true reason ,,,because the regime need someone to blame for the clash between PKI (indonesian communist party) and the military regime (soeharto),,,which the regime been back up by the islamic force . Since the communist was the only one power that could rival the islamic to be the dominant power in the nation. So,,they (military +islam) will done everything to crush the PKI,,(coz in reality they do afraid of the communist).
And if today we find in the history book,which,told later by the winner (military),,,that the PKI was who must responsible for the situation at that time.........THE FACT is all of the story they told is all big lie...lie,,,its a very false history that create by the military themself.
The only true fact,,is come from the innocent that been the victim that time,,,,most of them died and the rest is live in very sad condition.and OC is the part of the victim.
The real fact,,that was the military and islamic whose want to revolt and create their new regime,,by blaming the innocent as communist..and they did it....as today we can see what kind of goverment that in indonesia now,,,,,,1969-1998 (military regime under soeharto) and the islamic is the only power that rules till now 2011.

Back to 1967 ,,to west borneo,,there was my ancestor homeland in indonesia,,my great grandfather till my parents.
As the old, told me their miserable story,,
We chinese overseas,,lived in most of west borneo,,since a long time ago,,and the God ,,blessed us with a land of prosperity...most of them were farmer,,
We lived peacefully,,,we had a large farm/paddy field,,,lot of cattles,,our ancestor was very good in farming,,,so there was plentyfull of rice,fruits,,milk,,egg,,etc
part of them also miners,,,and the rest were traditional business man.
most of them dont know anything about PKI/communist....they didn't do politics at all,,,,they just know how to manage the land to be heaven for the next generation.We even didn't need the outside world to be survived at the time.
Then came,,the military under the command of soeharto,,without any reason,,,they came and kill,,just like a troop of zombie.(islamic zombie)
About 70000 OC were killed,,,and also ten of thousand other forced to leave they land ,they home,without bring anything at all.
The innocent were killed without any explanation,,,the old left behind and died lonely without funeral,,the young been killed,,part of them run for their live.
I remember my mother told me,,that even the forest and the land,,became very sad for us,,,days before the military came,,,,the sky looked strange,,,in the afternoon we could saw the sky very dark and became red.....even the river (the source of the life) became drought just in one night....the bird was no singing,,the ants were moved their den ,,the land look so sad at that time..the forest very silent............may be the God was crying for us...........
As the fact today,,,,40 years after,,,our land today has vanished and become a jungle,,veri big jungle as they were in the past....the God take it,,and keep it again,,,God will not give them to the indonesian,,,not even a little bit of land.It's better to be a jungle,,than be takeover by the indonesian.

This story is just a bit part of the whole history from the OC here in indonesia...as we know many more has and to come,,,such as the 1998 tragedy,,,I was 17 that year,,and once again I saw the humanity crime did by the indonesian.........Only God could help us to take the revenge

As Chinese Indonesian myself, I understand your feelings very much. When 1998 tragedy happen, I was 12 years old. It was frightening to think now that my house was near Glodok (one of the place where the tragedy happen). Thanks God, we are okay, even though some of my big family experience their shop looted.

All of us was very angry and sad, but I don't think revenge will change anything. We will never forget all crime against Chinese Indonesian that have happened, but we have to moved on with our life. Let's change our sadness and grieve into big positive energy. Let's all of us help each other regardless of their religion or races. These crime against humanity should become a lesson for all of us so we never repeat it again.

Don't worry if the culprit was never caught, because in the end, all of us will die. And will be judged by God according to our sins when we was alive.

God Bless All of Us.

Edited by Peace, 09 October 2011 - 06:25 AM.

[Peace]

Unfortunately, chinese are a selfish race that does not think of the community as a whole unlike the Japanese and most countries in Europe who are very united.

The chinese are more concerned with their own self and how rich they will become.

The only people in the world who can help overseas chinese in Indonesia, Malaysia who face racial discrimination are the overseas chinese in America and Europe because they have the money and the power. But do they really care if PRC don't even care ?

I don't think that Chinese Indonesian need financial help that much. I think what Chinese Indonesian need is moral and legal support in which overseas Chinese pressure Indonesian government so they don't discriminate against Chinese Indonesian and should protect them as their own citizen because they truly are. God knows how much Chinese Indonesian have helped build and protect Indonesia from dutch colonial era until today. Anyway, any kind of help from overseas Chinese to support each other including Chinese Indonesian are appreciated very much. We are very very very ... grateful for overseas Chinese support and help after 1998 tragedy. Only God knows what would happen to Chinese Indonesian if there are not overseas Chinese support and help. It really touching to know that the bond between Chinese is very great.

God Bless All of Us.

[nohanchink]

The malaysian bumiputra (generally brown skinned people) apply affirmative action as part of the national social policy in order to promote distribution of wealth and encourage social justice. This is not discrimination. This is a policy that has helped many bumiputras achieve a better standard of living that their counterparts in indonesia, philippines and thailand.

The chinese in Malaysia , as in many countries in SE asia, are insular and chauvinistic. Usually, when presented with two individuals, a bumiputra or a chinese with equal academic or professional backgrounds and levels of experience, the chinese employer would rather choose his own people. In some instances, a more qualified non-chinese is rejected in favor of the chinese person. The Chinese employer would justify this by using unfair criteria such as ability to speak a specifiic chinese dialect or judge the non-chinese candidate as not having the 'right character.' The end result is that most chinese companies still have a higher proportion of chinese than non-chinese as their workforce.

In general Chinese employers, do not seek to hire based on the proportion represented in the national population. That alone proves they are not keen to maintain national cohesion. They only seek to attain cohesion in their own community and promote wealth in their own community.

Laws have been maintained in Malaysia so that the chinese -- who are no doubt the most active in the Malaysian business community and throughout the economic region-- are forced to hire non-chinese, even if they are token hires. For decades this has helped promote a stable economy and society in Malaysia.

It is a well known fact that the chinese are racial people, who regard their family and facial appearances in the highest regard, rather than humanity in general. That is why malaysia has been smart in implementing a policy that tries to balance the bias that is inherent in the chinese community.



The chinese in malaysia claim to feel discrimination even though it is barely justified. They feel that if their children attained high scores in national exams that they are entitled to government scholarships. They do not realize that their community is wealthy enough to sustain themselves and sponsor their youth to better education opportunities in Malaysia and abroad. Despite that, the Malaysian government still provides help to many in the Chinese community who are deserving of need.


Currently the Chinese in Malaysia are becoming too boisterous. They complain too much even though they have attained much political clout. Their rise in politics is due to the awareness by some bumiputras that they no longer need the crutch of the affirmative action policies. This has led to the opposition party that is sympathetic to the chinese cause to win many more electoral districts than ever before.

However, the fact remains that the chinese in Malaysia still own 75% of the commercial property there. They still employ disproportionately more chinese in the private sector. This leads some political analysts to believe that if the poorer non-chinese are still marginalised and under-employed, they will rise up and again blame the chinese minority in Malaysia. No Malaysian would want a violent uprising of the discontent majority.

It still behooves the outsider to note that the Malaysian Chinese still eschew government jobs even though the Malaysian government has actively courted them for employment. The reason is because they always want the jobs to be well paid, and they don't show patriotism towards their country of birth.

Most Chinese malaysians seek citizenship in the UK, australia or Canada because of higher paying jobs there. This again proves to most non-chinese malaysians that they are not sincere in nation building. They only want to build their personal wealth. If tomorrow Mainland China becomes wealthier than the Anglo- world, I am sure those same chinese would return back to their original homeland.

I know that i have generalised the chinese too much. But I just want to clarify that not all chinese are like this. THere are several who are caring and understanding of their social responsibilities.

I do not begrudge the wealth, success and hard work that the Chinese put into their daily lives. Most of their successes are well earned. However, most chinese in Malaysia need to learn that social cohesion means they need to learn to share. They can't expect to take all and leave everyone behind.

[angeljoanes]

I'm a Chinese that born in Indonesia. That's funny how one of my online friends comment about me "A Chinese who couldn't speak Chinese couldn't be considered Chinese at all".Well I don't blame him. It strange really to see a Chinese who couldn't speak mandarin.
I go to Kuala Lumpur once. Chinese ethnic there tend to speak with you in Mandarin... And they tend to see you strangely when you say you couldn't speak mandarin. How i envy them with their cultural freedom

Nowadays, although government already erase the regulation that oppressed the minority, I think It's too late... too many Chinese young generation in Indonesian nowadays couldn't even count one to five in Mandarin...

Edited by angeljoanes, 23 June 2012 - 04:43 AM.

[Sabrina Gage]

It is quite normal for the phenomenon as it appears in other culture as well. It's quite normal for one whose parents are, say, English, is born in Germany and can not speak English as he/she grows up in Germany. As whether one is rich or not, it really depends on the ability with little relationship to the nationality one belongs to.

[xng]

I'm a Chinese that born in Indonesia. That's funny how one of my online friends comment about me "A Chinese who couldn't speak Chinese couldn't be considered Chinese at all".Well I don't blame him. It strange really to see a Chinese who couldn't speak mandarin.
I go to Kuala Lumpur once. Chinese ethnic there tend to speak with you in Mandarin... And they tend to see you strangely when you say you couldn't speak mandarin. How i envy them with their cultural freedom

Nowadays, although government already erase the regulation that oppressed the minority, I think It's too late... too many Chinese young generation in Indonesian nowadays couldn't even count one to five in Mandarin...

The only countries outside of China and Taiwan where the AVERAGE (note this word) chinese in that country can speak/read any chinese language (either mandarin, hokkien or cantonese) at a sufficiently proficient level are the Singaporeans and Malaysian chinese.

Most overseas chinese in European or America have lost their ability to speak/read chinese, knowing only a smattering of words don't qualify you as being a chinese speaker.

So Indonesian chinese are not alone. You hear most american chinese speak to each other in english most of the time (those who were born there and not raised in China).

Edited by xng, 07 July 2012 - 12:27 PM.

[returnofkevin]

Chinese Indonesian comprise only 3.5 % of total population or about 7.4 million.
Many see them as wealthy businessman. Whereas some Chinese Indonesian have made it to the list of 1000 richest men in the world, the majority live a simple life.
Most of them can not speak Mandarin or any other Chinese dialect any more thanks of more than three decades of cultural repression.
But native Indonesian and politicians see them not as a integral part of the nation,
the unwanted aliens.
How other Chinese see them ? What is your opinion?

I'm one of them.
I can't speak Chinese or any other Chinese dialect : Hokkien, Hakka , etc.

We have to change our chinese name into Indonesian one in that decades.
For example. Liem Sioe Liong is changed to Sudono Salim.

But since the May 1998 reformation, everything has changed.
The discrimination from government has gone.
But the real discrimination from native Indonesian (the society) still existed.
They think Chinese is their suffering cause, because they think almost Chinese Indonesian is rich.

Edited by returnofkevin, 08 July 2012 - 01:33 AM.

[xng]

I'm one of them.
I can't speak Chinese or any other Chinese dialect : Hokkien, Hakka , etc.

We have to change our chinese name into Indonesian one in that decades.
For example. Liem Sioe Liong is changed to Sudono Salim.

But since the May 1998 reformation, everything has changed.
The discrimination from government has gone.
But the real discrimination from native Indonesian (the society) still existed.
They think Chinese is their suffering cause, because they think almost Chinese Indonesian is rich.

Do they practise that chinese must buy house at higher price than indonesian ? ie. native indon get discounted house price.

Any restriction on quota for hiring staff in government or private sectors ? ie. 60% reserved for native indonesian etc ?

Any restriction on quota for university entrance exams ? ie. 90% reserved for native indonesian and not based on results alone.

Edited by xng, 09 July 2012 - 01:59 AM.