127 replies to this topic

[superquarterback]

Chinese Indonesian comprise only 3.5 % of total population or about 7.4 million.
Many see them as wealthy businessman. Whereas some Chinese Indonesian have made it to the list of 1000 richest men in the world, the majority live a simple life.
Most of them can not speak Mandarin or any other Chinese dialect any more thanks of more than three decades of cultural repression.
But native Indonesian and politicians see them not as a integral part of the nation,
the unwanted aliens.
How other Chinese see them ? What is your opinion?

[qrasy]

Actually I think this should be in overseas Chinese forum.

Chinese Indonesian comprise only 3.5 % of total population or about 7.4 million.
Many see them as wealthy businessman. Whereas some Chinese Indonesian have made it to the list of 1000 richest men in the world, the majority live a simple life.

Yes, it is said that most Chinese in Indonesia are rich.

Most of them can not speak Mandarin or any other Chinese dialect any more thanks of more than three decades of cultural repression.

In some opportunities I notice that we are assumed to be unable to speak any Chinese. It (majority can't speak Chinese) usually happens in Java island, and also newer generations tend to speak Indonesian slang.
In fact in Medan almost all Chinese speak Hokkien. Sumatran should have less Indonesian influence than Java Island (where the capital city is).

But native Indonesian and politicians see them not as a integral part of the nation,
the unwanted aliens.
How other Chinese see them ? What is your opinion?

Yeah, most of the natives see Chinese just like that. Remove your 'and' here and it should be true.

Edited by qrasy, 14 August 2005 - 07:43 AM.

[Miborovsky]

Whoever controls money controls the nation. However the Indonesian Chinese are too dumb to realise that.

I think they all need to change their name back to Chinese! Chinese names are the only real names for Chinese people!

[qrasy]

Whoever controls money controls the nation. However the Indonesian Chinese are too dumb to realise that.

I think they all need to change their name back to Chinese! Chinese names are the only real names for Chinese people!

Most politicians are... native Indonesians. Some native Indonesian just have too much money and power. How come Chinese can control the nation if the natives don't want to follow? (They are majority of people, don't you forget about physical attacks?)

Name is not a great matter to me, but languages/cultures are. Chinese in should know their own languages/cultures.

[nguoiVietchanhtong]

Whoever controls money controls the nation. However the Indonesian Chinese are too dumb to realise that.

I think they all need to change their name back to Chinese! Chinese names are the only real names for Chinese people!

Yeah right! many westerners use their Chinese names for the local to communicate w/ them.

[kaixin]

Money cannot buy protection or respect.

Many of us Chinese-Americans were filled with rage what those Indonesian Muslim terrorists did to ethnic Chinese couple years ago. We were more mad when China did not say or do anything about it.

I hope that many Chinese-Indonesian 'qiaobao' who have the means to immigrate to safer and stable nations, please do so. For your better future.

Edited by kaixin, 17 August 2005 - 11:35 PM.

[Hendrik_2000]

Money cannot buy protection or respect.

Many of us Chinese-Americans were filled with rage what those Indonesian Muslim terrorists did to ethnic Chinese couple years ago.  We were more mad when China did not say or do anything about it.

I hope that many Chinese-Indonesian 'qiaobao' who have the means to immigrate to safer and stable nations, please do so.  For your better future.

Thanks for your sympathy and understanding Most of the middle class or professional CI did indeed immigrate to mostly Anglo Saxon country of Canada and Australia Nowadays sending children to study overseas is common among middle class CI

But for most older people or less educated it is kind of tough to uproot yourself But hopefully condition improve in coming years as China win more respect There are approximately 7 million CI Where can you find place for so many people?

[dragonknight]

Chinese Indonesian comprise only 3.5 % of total population or about 7.4 million.
Many see them as wealthy businessman. Whereas some Chinese Indonesian have made it to the list of 1000 richest men in the world, the majority live a simple life.
Most of them can not speak Mandarin or any other Chinese dialect any more thanks of more than three decades of cultural repression.
But native Indonesian and politicians see them not as a integral part of the nation,
the unwanted aliens.
How other Chinese see them ? What is your opinion?

I think the saddest perception of Indonesian Chinese is the enforced loss of their cultural heritage (including language, names) and other basic human rights. I suspect the current Indonesian leaders have woken up to the fact that China will be a dominant force in the future and that they cannot continue to trample on the human rights of Chinese Indonesians. But the leopard never changes its spots. The long term solution for Chinese Indonesians who want to remain Chinese is perhaps emigration.

Edited by dragonknight, 18 August 2005 - 10:00 AM.

[Miborovsky]

I think the saddest perception of Indonesian Chinese is the enforced loss of their cultural heritage (including language, names) and other basic human rights.  I suspect the current Indonesian leaders have woken up to the fact that China will be a dominant force in the future and that they cannot continue to trample on the  human rights of Chinese Indonesians.  But the leopard never changes its spots.  The long term solution for Chinese Indonesians who want to remain Chinese is perhaps emigration.

Or making Indonesia a Chinese province. But I'm bordering on lunacy here.

It'd be good though.

[superquarterback]

Whoever controls money controls the nation. However the Indonesian Chinese are too dumb to realise that.

I think they all need to change their name back to Chinese! Chinese names are the only real names for Chinese people!

American, British, Dutch ,German and Japanese control a lot of Indonesian natural resources, directly or indirectly. The military control most of the wealth too.
The myth that Chinese Indonesian are rich is only partially true, limited to about 50,000 families, who most of them have fled Indonesia around 1998. 7 millions people that left behind are mostly belong to middle class or even poor families.
With money you can't buy everything. If one of the generals is determined to destroy you, you may try to play them against each other, but if most of them are against you, just try to flee.

The non-Chinese names are enforced to us, therefore many Chinese Indonesians use western (mostly English, Dutch or even German) names instead of Indonesian ones.

[superquarterback]

I think the saddest perception of Indonesian Chinese is the enforced loss of their cultural heritage (including language, names) and other basic human rights.   I suspect the current Indonesian leaders have woken up to the fact that China will be a dominant force in the future and that they cannot continue to trample on the  human rights of Chinese Indonesians.   But the leopard never changes its spots.   The long term solution for Chinese Indonesians who want to remain Chinese is perhaps emigration.

The main problem is for the people who can not emigrate, how would you expect that all 7 millions leave the country. Which country or countries are willing to recieve such huge amount. Not all of them are well educated, especially the older generation. They are better educated than the natives , but they did not attend university (because there are restrictions, and in the past the condition was more severe than now)
People who can emigrate they have emigrated.

I should praise Singapore government for giving scholarship for the brightest Chinese Indonesian teenagers, which open up their chance to emigrate to Singapore. But there are few of them.

Edit: I would like to thank you all who have been sympathizing to our plight.

Edited by superquarterback, 21 August 2005 - 02:37 AM.

[qrasy]

The non-Chinese names are enforced to us, therefore many Chinese Indonesians use western (mostly English, Dutch or even German) names instead of Indonesian ones.

That's right many are Western names e.g. William, Michael but in surnames I don't think any Chinese have western one.

[superquarterback]

That's right many are Western names e.g. William, Michael but in surnames I don't think any Chinese have western one.

Yes, nobody use western surname of course. Sometimes they use Indonesian name which similar to their Chinese surname as a disguise, or even maintain their Chinese surname (like my parents)
For example :
Chinese surname: Lin (Minnan dialect : Lim) Indonesian disguise :
Salim, Halim (famous example : Lin Shao Liang= Lim Soe Liong = Sudono Salim)
Chinese surname: Chen (Minnan: Tan) Indonesian disguise : Tanadi

[Yap Giok Nio]

The long term solution for Chinese Indonesians who want to remain Chinese is perhaps emigration.

My parents and many others of their generation emigrated from Indonesia and it resulted in an even greater loss of our culture and language. Emigration is not a solution, I fear. Indonesian public mentality must change. With better education and living standards, maybe the Indonesians would stop hating the Chinese. However, even in countries where most people have a good life (materialistically that is), ethnic intolerence still persists. There really is no simple solution to such a complex problem as this one.

[Genghis_Khan]

The main problem is for the people who can not emigrate, how would you expect that all 7 millions leave the country. Which country or countries are willing to recieve such huge amount. Not all of them are well educated, especially the older generation. They are better educated than the natives , but they did not attend university (because there are restrictions, and in the past the condition was more severe than now)
People who can emigrate they have emigrated.

I should praise Singapore government for giving scholarship for the brightest Chinese Indonesian teenagers, which open up their chance to emigrate to Singapore. But there are few of them.

Edit: I would like to thank you all who have been sympathizing to our plight.

Can we all go back to China ?
But some of us (or majority) don't speak or write Chinese..
We feel like outsider since something happen in Indonesia few years back and China have not voice out.. but Taiwan and Singapore have instead...
Not to be forgotten, we do contribute to China in monetary term when there was war with Japan during the World War...