230 replies to this topic

[Genghis_Khan]

check this thread
http://skyscrapercit...ad.php?t=345687

Thanks Karakhan..
Mongolia looks much like any west provincial of China but the building signboard were of the Russian..
How about details of Karakhan ?

[xng]

The reason why China didn't take back Mongolia was because Mongolia was protected by Russia.
The same goes for Outer Manchuria.

[phoenix_bladen]

i believe outer mongolia as the country " mongolia " only has a population of 2 million compared to 1.3 billion people right beside them......

i think the challeges this century of for the next few decades would mongolia trying to assert themselves indepedent from china ...... but would it be inevitable that china would absorb mongolia into their sphere economically?

also with 2 million ppl only would china be tempted to unit mongolia by forcE?

does mongolia have an army that can with stand the PLA currently?

could mongolia have any chance to defend itself if china were to attack it today with full force?

[Karakhan]

i believe outer mongolia as the country " mongolia " only has a population of 2 million compared to 1.3 billion people right beside them......

i think the challeges this century of for the next few decades would mongolia trying to assert themselves indepedent from china ...... but would it be inevitable that china would absorb mongolia into their sphere economically?

also with 2 million ppl only would china be tempted to unit mongolia by forcE?

does mongolia have an army that can with stand the PLA currently?

could mongolia have any chance to defend itself if china were to attack it today with full force?

2.6 million and the country is already the influence of China's economy with Russia being second. And no, Mongolia's military is small, however much to the chagrin of those with nationalistic aspirations of a larger China, I see no plans by the Chinese leadership to acquire Mongolia by force. Furthermore, Russia would have issues should that happen.

[Zorigo]

i believe outer mongolia as the country " mongolia " only has a population of 2 million compared to 1.3 billion people right beside them......

i think the challeges this century of for the next few decades would mongolia trying to assert themselves indepedent from china ...... but would it be inevitable that china would absorb mongolia into their sphere economically?

also with 2 million ppl only would china be tempted to unit mongolia by forcE?

does mongolia have an army that can with stand the PLA currently?

could mongolia have any chance to defend itself if china were to attack it today with full force?

I think you should grow up from your middle age mentality.

Answer for your questions.
1. Chinese were always tempted to have mongolia all the time. Any big guy can take anything from little guy. But consequence of the bully act will be harsher than expected, i assume. Mongols are not like Tibetans.
2. Mongol Army was always since the beginning of its history. Chinggis Khaan himself counted only army of 90000. But mongols had great number of auxilary troops of subject nations. Main forces were turkic nomadic tribes.
By 1921, people's revolution started with only 400 armed people.
Maximum number reached 30000 during WWII.

Now Mongolian Army is about 10000 -20000 personnal

http://en.wikipedia....ary_of_Mongolia

The following describes the Military of Mongolia:

Military branches: Mongolian People's Army (includes Internal Security Forces and Border Guards), Mongolian People's Air Force, Civil Defense troops
Military manpower - military age: 18 years of age
Military manpower - availability: males age 15-49: 818,977 (2004 est.)
Military manpower - fit for military service: males age 15-49: 530,594 (2004 est.)
Military manpower - reaching military age annually: males: 33,718 (2004 est.)

3. If Chinese attack on Mongolia, it might cause disintegration of China. Mongolia will not defend itself alone. International/ many other foreign countries will defend. Mongolia is building its international relationship.
http://www.military....0,96232,00.html

Mongolia, sandwiched between Russia, a former superpower, and China, a rising economic and military power, has sought to deepen its cooperation with Washington in recent years. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld traveled to the country last fall, and President Bush made a brief appearance there in November, promising $11 million in aid.

“I’m honored to be the first sitting American president to visit Mongolia, and America is proud to call you the third neighbor,” Bush said at the time.

Ulaanbaatar’s relations with Washington could require careful balancing with its direct neighbors. As a landlocked nation, the country relies on a flow of goods from the ports of China, a Mongolian diplomat said last month. In addition, China provides approximately $1 million per year for the “welfare” of 20,000 Mongolian service members, Togoo told ITP.

“The primary aim of our foreign policy is to develop good neighbor relations with both our neighbors,” Togoo said last week. “They consider Mongolia as just pursuing its own independent policy. There is no real tension.”

Relations between China and the United States, of course, can be somewhat strained.

In case chinese attacks.
Majority of Mongolians move out of the country/ or mongolians might leave urban areas for chinese.Let chinese struggle alone to survive in Mongolia. They can have as long as they wish, during these time there will be no peace in mainland china and Mongolia....

[mog08]

China wants the land back ... that doesn't mean that they'll get it back. They still claim it ... but no one will give it back willingly. China will do things one step at a time ... First Hong Kong, then Macau, then Taiwan, then Nothern Vietnam, then Mongolia, then Kasmir, etc.

PRC's excuse for wanting it back is "We (Imperial China) used to rule it ... so it is ours ... so now we want it back"

Using Taiwan as an example ... ... PRC claim of ROC is that they ruled it since the Manchu Dynasty. But before that Taiwan was NOT part of Imperial China. So, this current freedom from the yoke of China is as it should be ... indepandence from China like it was before Imperial China invaded it.

Did PRC really say that? It's so funny.

I already made my own list a while ago, through careful consultation of all past empires, however, rough estimation is required with steppe empires.
List includes effective area of control.

1) British empire: 12.5 million sq mile (1920)

2) Soviet Union: 9.5 million sq mile (1945)

3) Mongol empire: 9.2 million sq mile (1259)

4) Russian empire: 9.2 million sq mile (1900)

5) Spanish empire: 7.1 million sq mile (1780)

6) Modern Russia: 6.6 million sq mile (2000)

7) Qing empire: 5.1 million sq mile (1800)

8) Tang empire: 4.8 million sq mile (661)

9) French empire: 4.6 million sq mile (1920)

10) Republic of China: 4.3 million sq mile (1915)

11) United States empire: 4.2 million sq mile (1945)

12) Tujue empire: 4 million sq mile (570)

13) Canada: 3.8 million sq mile (2000)

14) People's Republic of China: 3.7 million sq mile (2,000)

15) Umayyad Caliph: 3.5 million sq mile (715)

16) Holy Roman emperor Charles V's empire: 3.4 million sq mile (1550)

17) Portuguese empire: 3.3 million sq mile (1750)

18) Brazilian Republic: 3.3 million sq mile (2000)

19) Brazilian empire: 3.3 million sq mile(1850)

20) Australia: 3 million sq mile(2000)

Modern Russia is not an empire
United States Empire - "United" and "States" contradicts "empire" I'd call it "American Empire" or "US Empire"
Canada, Brazil, Australia - very questionable as well to be "empire"

How do you define "foreign colony"? Are Xinjiang, Inner Mongolia and Tibet considered ones?

And wouldn't you call P.R.C. to be "People's Republical Empire of China"?

A colony needs to have its economy sapped to the empire, so no, not really. The ones listed are thus states, not colonies.

In fact, I do prefer to "call P.R.C. to be "People's Republical Empire of China""(not that I want it to be an empire). But cancel out the "Republical". Empire has a nice ring to it. Gives an impression of power and tradition. But because calling China the "Empire" would make the country look pretty bad, I wouldn't advice it.

UK still calls itself United Kingdom although it's hardly one. I find it not bad to call oneself of an empire. There are only 2 empires that remain today. USA and PRC. USA colonizes others with economical and military powers while PRC does through historical leftovers and geographical relations.
I came up with some new names for PRC because I don't like the word "china" be used for a country's name.

The Seres Empire - this one sounds best perhaps we could use this term to differentiate PRC + every place that had been directly influenced/controlled/colonized/inhabited by Imperial China from China, a very generalised term

The Empire of the Seres - same thing
United States of Serica / China - U.S.S. or U.S.C.
The Cathy Empire - catchy
West Pacific Empire - too vague
Cathy Republic
Republic of Serica
United Kingdom of Serica and Northern Taiwan - just for fun, don't take it too seriously

I found the comment of the Russians in the 1960s funny during their dispute over some insignificant border island, lying in the very north of Mandchuria.

CPCh: This and that northern island is ours, was ours and has always been ours.

CPSU: And what was the Great Wall for?

Touche.

very funny.

Some minor islands south of Japan have also been former Imerial China's land. Has it been discussed?