145 replies to this topic

[Klamath]

Recently, some chinese person is so favored in the chritiny spread job.

One question, what is the chinese religion?

IMO, the chinese religion is only (Confucianism, Daoism, Buddhism)

Christiny and Islam and other religions are just religions taken by some chinese, they are not chinese religion.

I start this thread just want hear all your people's opinions, many non-chinese people came here to know more about chinese things. If this issue are not solved or at least conduct a commonsense among people on this forum, I think it will harm the chinahistoryforum to keep academic and trustworthy.

[Wujiang]

On a techical level, Confucianism isn't much of a religion (in the modern sense of the word) as opposed to a political system like communism and capitalism with moral conducted thrown in. The real 'native' chinese religion would be religious Daoism.

[Klamath]

You are right, the original chinese religion is only Daoism.

But buddhism after its entering china for more 2000 years, had become a very important religion and culture. Confucianism has two faces, in the elite level in ancient times, it is a philosophy; among the ordinary chinese, it has many figures more like a religion.

Islam is only taken by certain group of people, and get along with other chinese, they keep their religion don't try to spread, others don't disturb. That is why islam is not a chinese religion in my mind. Their many ideas can't have a good approach with chinese culture, but they are warm enough to have those people accepted by the others

What I think chinese religion is not must be invented by chinese, while it must be adopted and shaped by chinese.

Edited by Klamath, 15 October 2005 - 11:41 PM.

[USC]

You are right, the original chinese religion is only Daoism.

But buddhism after its entering china for more 2000 years, had become a very important religion and culture. Confucianism has two faces, in the elite level in ancient times, it is a philosophy; among the ordinary chinese, it has many figures more like a religion.

Islam is only taken by certain group of people, and get along with other chinese, they keep their religion don't try to spread, others don't disturb. That is why islam is not a chinese religion in my mind. Their many ideas can't have a good approach with chinese culture, but they are warm enough to have those people accepted by the others

What I think chinese religion is not must be invented by chinese, while it must be adopted and shaped by chinese.

Buddhism is a philosophy, not religion by origin, until when it spread to China and mixing with the Confucianism,and Zhou rites, it eventually develop and incorporated to become Daoism.
Islam and Christianity are both foreign by nature to China. Islam is more agressive in converting than Christianity.
once you become a muslim, your family members or whoever marry a muslim "must" likewise be
converted to muslim, thus its member always outnumber the Christianity, and by nature of such
competition for the convert, the Christian and muslim always fighting a "jihad" since 9th century til
today.
Pope John Paul or the Holysee has been eyeing the huge Chinese market to be ready to convert to
Christianity, and by belief to be loyal to the Vantican, thus it conflicts deeply with the CCP ideology.
Jesus Christ as of todate is still unknown and unheard to many Chinese.
I think Chinese shud maintain its Buddhism and Daoism of filial piety tradition.

[Klamath]

Pope John Paul or the Holysee has been eyeing the huge Chinese market to be ready to convert to
Christianity, and by belief to be loyal to the Vantican, thus it conflicts deeply with the CCP ideology.
Jesus Christ as of todate is still unknown and unheard to many Chinese.
I think Chinese shud maintain its Buddhism and Daoism of filial piety tradition.

I don't think it is the clashes between ideology.

It's clashes between people. I think I am a warm athiest, I am not against people could have their own religion. But if some one make the excuse "religious freedom", he had already broken the law freedom of one's spirit. Can a child be born religious? In fact, everyone is born an athiest ,for he know nothing then. When some one or organizations are trying to convert others, it is a problem. Trying to spread religion and make others believe their own itself already is a kind of invasion for it aims to eliminate the different religions in other's mind.

Times had changed, now the offical ideology is athism. Well, some others says athism is also a religion, fine.

[MengTzu]

I start this thread just want hear all your people's opinions, many non-chinese people came here to know more about chinese things. If this issue are not solved or at least conduct a commonsense among people on this forum, I think it will harm the chinahistoryforum to keep academic and trustworthy.

You're implying that discussion about Christianity is not academic, and even make us not trustworthy? I don't understand. Christianity can be and is discussed from a very academic point of view, as long as we discuss things that can be discussed logically and objectively, like analysis of text and history.

Buddhism is a philosophy, not religion by origin, until when it spread to China and mixing with the Confucianism,and Zhou rites, it eventually develop and incorporated to become Daoism.

Whoa, hold on a minute. Are you saying that Buddhism became Daoism? There were certainly Daoism prior to popularization of Buddhism in China, and I'm not just talking about philosophical Daoism, as there were practitioners of exercises of cultivation that are characteristic of religious Daoism. Daoism and Chinese Buddhism became influential upon each other, of course, but I insist that we don't consider one being the descendant of the other.

[Klamath]

You're implying that discussion about Christianity is not academic, and even make us not trustworthy? I don't understand. Christianity can be and is discussed from a very academic point of view, as long as we discuss things that can be discussed logically and objectively, like analysis of text and history.

I agree, the chiristianity itself does have something worthy of discussion and reference. But Christianity is not a chinese religion yet, so talking about the Christiny's interactive relations between chinese culture of China which I think no one would disagree.

But what the things happened you also had seen, it has been a unrational sub-board. I'm not moderator ,no authority to steer the direction, what I imply is a feeling of a ordinary chinese that gathering the different views and clarify "what is the chinese religion" is necessary.

[somechineseperson]

Buddhism is a philosophy, not religion by origin, until when it spread to China and mixing with the Confucianism,and Zhou rites, it eventually develop and incorporated to become Daoism.
Islam and Christianity are both foreign by nature to China. Islam is more agressive in converting than Christianity.
once you become a muslim, your family members or whoever marry a muslim "must" likewise be
converted to muslim, thus its member always outnumber the Christianity, and by nature of such
competition for the convert, the Christian and muslim always fighting a "jihad" since 9th century til
today.
Pope John Paul or the Holysee has been eyeing the huge Chinese market to be ready to convert to
Christianity, and by belief to be loyal to the Vantican, thus it conflicts deeply with the CCP ideology.
Jesus Christ as of todate is still unknown and unheard to many Chinese.
I think Chinese shud maintain its Buddhism and Daoism of filial piety tradition.

Your ideas about Buddhism "becoming Daoism" is clearly wrong.

The current Christian population in China is over 100 million, (including all denominations and both Three-Self and underground churches), that is, almost one in every ten Chinese is a Christian. The influence of Christianity in China is much greater than Islam. Very few Han Chinese people are Muslim while most Christians in China are Han Chinese. Nor is there a priori contradiction between Christianity and traditional Chinese culture, as the Jesuits have shown 400 years ago.

[Klamath]

The current Christian population in China is over 100 million, (including all denominations and both Three-Self and underground churches), that is, almost one in every ten Chinese is a Christian.

Highly exaggerated. In the year 1992, offical stastics is about 12 millions.

Edited by Klamath, 16 October 2005 - 09:21 PM.

[jwrevak]

Recently, some chinese person is so favored in the chritiny spread job.

One question, what is the chinese religion?

IMO, the chinese religion is only (Confucianism, Daoism, Buddhism)

Buddhism is an import, just as Christianity is.

Christiny and Islam and other religions are just religions taken by some chinese, they are not chinese religion.

To the extent that Christianity and Islam are practiced by some Chinese they is part of Chinese culture even if they aren't indigenous to China or as important to Chinese as Confucianism and Taoism. To the extent that they are part of Chinese culture, Christianity and Islam are germane to this forum in my opinion. However, I do feel that Christianity or Islam all by themselves or with no or little reference to China are not germane to this forum.

I start this thread just want hear all your people's opinions, many non-chinese people came here to know more about chinese things. If this issue are not solved or at least conduct a commonsense among people on this forum, I think it will harm the chinahistoryforum to keep academic and trustworthy.

Well, frankly very few posts in this forum are truly academic.

[LYY]

Recently, some chinese person is so favored in the chritiny spread job.

One question, what is the chinese religion?

IMO, the chinese religion is only (Confucianism, Daoism, Buddhism)

Christiny and Islam and other religions are just religions taken by some chinese, they are not chinese religion.

The Chinese is practically rather adaptive with the "belief system".
If we go through the development profile of each and every "belief system" among Chinese (in China/Taiwan and the overseas), you will find a common pattern to integrate new values into the way of life. The Chinese is indeed a very good "integrationist"!

(Remarks: A good living example is the Communist Government in the PRC implementing a rather high degree of capitalism in her economy system).

[LYY]

Christiny and Islam and other religions are just religions taken by some chinese, they are not chinese religion.

To the extent that Christianity and Islam are practiced by some Chinese they is part of Chinese culture even if they aren't indigenous to China or as important to Chinese as Confucianism and Taoism. To the extent that they are part of Chinese culture, Christianity and Islam are germane to this forum in my opinion. However, I do feel that Christianity or Islam all by themselves or with no or little reference to China are not germane to this forum.

Based on the MBTI analysis, in a society where religious freedom is practiced, Christianity will constitute about 25~30% of the total Chinese population.

Any data available? Just curious

Edited by LYY, 17 October 2005 - 03:51 AM.

[LYY]

I don't think it is the clashes between ideology.

It's clashes between people. I think I am a warm athiest, I am not against people could have their own religion. But if some one make the excuse "religious freedom", he had already broken the law freedom of one's spirit. Can a child be born religious? In fact, everyone is born an athiest ,for he know nothing then. When some one or organizations are trying to convert others, it is a problem. Trying to spread religion and make others believe their own itself already is a kind of invasion for it aims to eliminate the different religions in other's mind.

Times had changed, now the offical ideology is athism. Well, some others says athism is also a religion, fine.

I hope the coming "Carbon Era" will provide a technological "gateway" to this kind of freedom. I do mean it.

I notice most Christian/Buddhist/Daoism (etc) by born are very much benign and moderate in religious practice - something that is personal and free will.

[General_Zhaoyun]

The main difference between Buddhism vs Christianity/Islam/Daoism is that the latter (esp. christianity) is more focused on the aspect of theology (i.e. the study of God).

Buddhism, unlike other religion, is based on the concept of Buddha, and IMO is more like a supreme philosophy rather than a religion.

[LYY]

Buddhism, unlike other religion, is based on the concept of Buddha, and IMO is more like a supreme philosophy rather than a religion.

Comments on Buddhism from the perspective of dichotomical recursion:

In the realm of the 'spiritual', from a scientific perspective, the only one I have seen to date that 'fits the data' well is Buddhism - it complements the 'starkness' of the existential perspectives re 'out there' that comes out of Science, and so reflects the pairing nature overall without the 'need' for external forces a al 'god' or 'magic' etc - it recognises the impermanence factor etc but also the focus on becoming an 'enlightened one'. The 'four noble truths' are in fact glossed-up terms for basic research methods of ( a ) identify the 'thing' ( b ) map its cause/beginning, ( c ) map its effect/ending, (d) map the path from cause to effect.

( a ) = the notion of T'ai Chi
( b ) and ( c ) yang/yin
( d ) recursion of ( b )/( c ) presenting the MINIMUM level of resolution required to get a 'good' grasp of things - this level in the I Ching in the form of the eight trigrams. (eight fold path in Buddhism)

Communication of experiences reflects the 'follow in my shoes' form of teaching and that reflects the 'repeatability' focus in Science re verification of experiments and data.

These patterns reflect the basic structures of 'in here' but in moderation. Apply excess energy, lots of consciousness and we move into the realm of the charismatic - and so the more 'monadic' faiths in the form of personality cults (Buddhism has elements of that, until you recognise that there is a line of 'buddhas' (male and female) all 'following in the footsteps' of the first buddha. In the personality cults you 'praise' the persona, but cannot become such. In Buddhism the focus is on showing HOW to become 'enlightened' and the path is up to you; no notions of 'god' or 'soul' etc, just a focus on consciousness and mindfulness etc to experience 'nirvana'.)

With the I Ching so we can 'do' ( a ) to ( d ) (each hexagram being a form of 'sutra') and in that doing, through such material as line position mappings etc, learn the 'tune' of the hexagram and get others to 'resonate' with it - and we follow in the shoes of the IC and so of our brains.