18 replies to this topic

[xu huang]

While reading SGZ, I came across 丁卯,丙子,甲午 and others. I know that they are dates, but I wish to know exactly which date is which, for example, 丁卯,丙子,甲午 are which days of the month....Hope u guys understand what I mean.


Sorry...I don't know where to post this...pls move this thread to where it should belongs.

[qrasy]

Usually they are only used for days and years. Almost never months except in making the 'Ba Zi' / 'eight characters'.

They (the daily markers) do not refer to lunar date, but rather their own 60-day cycle. Since months are not always 30 days long, there is really no regular pattern. (unless you use 'computerized date' )

Edited by qrasy, 20 November 2005 - 08:59 AM.

[xu huang]

Usually they are only used for days and years. Almost never months except in making the 'Ba Zi' / 'eight characters'.

They (the daily markers) do not refer to lunar date, but rather their own 60-day cycle. Since months are not always 30 days long, there is really no regular pattern. (unless you use 'computerized date' )

Ah, so that means that the first month and the second may have 60 days in between them? And that will also means that one year may mean more than 365 days? What do you mean by computerized date?

[qrasy]

As I have said, that system is unrelated with months. Usually the same date marker appears 2 months once (not always).
There is some unpopular 'solar year-style month' in Chinese counting: there are 12 and each's length is divided according to seasons, but also not related to the daily Gan-Zhi system.

By computerized date, I mean the way how computer store dates, its a long number, I was just kidding about the computer date. But by dividing the date number by 60 and take the reminder, you will see that it correlates directly to the Gan Zhi...

Edited by qrasy, 20 November 2005 - 09:42 AM.

[xu huang]

As I have said, that system is unrelated with months. Usually the same date marker appears 2 months once (not always).
There is some unpopular 'solar year-style month' in Chinese counting: there are 12 and each's length is divided according to seasons, but also not related to the daily Gan-Zhi system.

By computerized date, I mean the way how computer store dates, its a long number, I was just kidding about the computer date. But by dividing the date number by 60 and take the reminder, you will see that it correlates directly to the Gan Zhi...

Ok, I get it now. Thanks for the info ! So, when translating the Gan Zhi, we can only translate it into Pinyin. I was hoping that if I know the actual day of each, I could translate them into something like modern day dates, which would make it easier for readers.

Edited by xu huang, 20 November 2005 - 09:51 AM.

[qrasy]

Ok, I get it now. Thanks for the info ! So, when translating the Gan Zhi, we can only translate it into Pinyin. I was hoping that if I know the actual day of each, I could translate them into something like modern day dates, which would make it easier for readers.

Actually the Gan-zhi makes easier to translate into modern date. Unfortunately (I think) the month system used is lunar, which made it difficult to which month it is referring to.
With solar months it's much easier to find out which date it was.. (since the seasons start almost the same solar date every year, just differ by at most one day from 'standard')

[Lin Duanwen]

There are "ganzhi" for each year, each month, each day and each time. These form the 8 characters Bazi.
You will be able to find the "ganzhi" in "tongshu".

[General_Zhaoyun]

Actually the "Ganzhi 干支" (Stems and Branches), more formally speaking, is established by combining the "Tian Gan 天干 "（10 Heavenly Stems) with the "Di Zhi 地支" (12 Terrestial Branches), which will give 60 combinations of "Gan Zhi". 60 "Gan Zhi" represents 60 years in one cycle.

The "Tian Gan 天干 "（10 Heavenly Stems) are:
甲 (jia)
乙 (yi)
丙 (bing)
丁 (ding)
戊 (wu)
己 (ji)
庚 (geng)
辛 (xing)
壬 (ren)
癸 (gui)

The "Di Zhi 地支" (12 Terrestial Branches) are:
子 (zi)
丑 (chou)
寅 (yin)
卯 (mao)
辰 (chen)
巳 (si)
午 (wu)
未 (wei)
申 (shen)
酉 (you)
戌 (xu)
亥 (hai)

For example, the Gan-Zhi " 甲子" is made up by combining "甲" (one of the 10 heavenly stems) with "子" (one of the 12 Terrestial Branches).

To check on the "Gan Zhi" and its conversion to western dates, one may refer to chinese calendar or chinese divinity booklet such as "Tongshu 通书"

Now the "Gan Zhi" can also represent the year, the month, the day and the time. Because there are total 8 characters (2 for the year, 2 for the month, 2 for the day and 2 for the time), these kind of representation is also known as "Bazhi 八字" (8 letters). The 8 letters are usually used to represent one's birthday in the chinese calendar, and was used in divination to check on one's destiny.

The "Gan Zhi" was used in ancient times primarily for recording days, but now, it is used for recording year. Today's chinese calendar continues to use "Gan Zhi".

Edited by General_Zhaoyun, 08 December 2005 - 11:00 AM.

[snowybeagle]

Question : IIRC, these are supposed to correspond to celestial phenomena, i.e., derived from astronomical observations.

Can an expert who is "lost in time" tell which year it is simply by observing the skies?

[LYY]

Can an expert who is "lost in time" tell which year it is simply by observing the skies?

Theoritically yes, if you use a telescope.
In fact, our body, as a natural biological clock can tell the time too. But we have not used that for ages ...

[LYY]

Question : IIRC, these are supposed to correspond to celestial phenomena, i.e., derived from astronomical observations.

One of the clue proven in Science is the EM field.
Another factor is Gravitational Field.

The EMF & Gravitational interactions between the planets (in the Solar System) plus the EMF & Gravitational interaction between the Sun and the Moon - the net effect onto Earth is the encoded in a simple calendar system - Tian Gan Di Zhi (天干地支) as explained by GZ.

Edited by LYY, 09 December 2005 - 03:07 AM.

[LYY]

PLANETARY CONFIGURATION: IMPLICATIONS FOR EARTHQUAKE PREDICTION
N.Venkatanathan.....Department of Applied Geology, University of Madras, Guindy Campus, A.C.College Buildings, Chennai â¤" 600 025, India.

Abstract The hazards of earthquakes are avoidable if prediction can be made early, which would
enable their mitigation, reduce damage to life and property drastically and facilitate precautionary
measures by government and NGOs. This attempt aims at establishing planetary configurations as a
definitive means of earthquake prediction. Also this study aims to establish the occurrence of
earthquake precursors like fore shocks and change in ground water level with respect to planetary
configurations. When two or more than two planets, Sun and Moon are aligned more or less in line
with the Earth, then the Earth would be caught in the middle of a huge gravity struggle
between the Sun and the planets. The gravitational stresses would change the speed of the Earth in
its orbit. When the speed of rotation of the earth changes the tectonic plate motion also gets affected.
The total angular momentum of planets involving in earthquake triggering mechanism can be
calculated and the total force acting at the epicenter in the opposite direction to the rotation of the
earth can also be determined. The planetary forces acting in the opposite direction to the rotation of
earth act as a triggering mechanism for the accumulated stress at faults and plate boundaries, to be
released abruptly. This does not, however, mean that earthquakes will occur at all edges of the plate
boundaries. In order to trigger an earthquake in one particular place, two conditions should be
satisfied. They are a ) distance of epicenter from the planet position and b ) Direction of force acting at
the possible epicenter. From the analysis of â¤Significant earthquakes⤠over past 100 years, it is
inferred that the latitude, longitude and magnitude of the tremor is related to the distance from the
planet and direction of planetary forces acting at any particular point. By correlating the planetary
positions and their forces with geology of that area, earthquakes can be predicted with fair accuracy
with regard to latitude, longitude and magnitude at least a month before.

[LYY]

Original Paper:
http://www.ineter.go...nkatanathan.pdf

Quake Was Predicted; No One Listened
http://www.atsnn.com/story/107779.html

[qrasy]

Question : IIRC, these are supposed to correspond to celestial phenomena, i.e., derived from astronomical observations.

Can an expert who is "lost in time" tell which year it is simply by observing the skies?

I think to guess (with naked eye) the time to the accuracy of month is very much possible, as the stars' position seem to rotate relative to the earth; I think that's also how western Zodiac works..
but I doubt it could be related to the Ganzhi of days (the number of days in a year is not divisible by 60)..

Edited by qrasy, 09 December 2005 - 06:19 AM.

[fcharton]

Question : IIRC, these are supposed to correspond to celestial phenomena, i.e., derived from astronomical observations.

Can an expert who is "lost in time" tell which year it is simply by observing the skies?

One could, up to a factor 25800 years, and given he has pretty good equipment, using the precession of the equinoxes... A couple of explanations on this.

Precession of the equinoxes is the third (in terms of magnitude) movement of earth (after its daily rotation and rotation around the sun), basically, it says that the direction of the north (ie the earth axis) is not constant wrt stars. In fact, it does move around a cone of about 23° angle, and take about 25800 years to do a full loop. This causes the position of stars to wrt the pole direction to change by about 50 seconds of arc a year. So practically, ne would need to use a "long pose" picture of the skies, on a new moon night... Due to the earth rotation, each star would then look as an arc of circle, and the year we are in could be guessed from the radii of these circles (with give the angle between the star and the polar axis). You'd need good instruments, but not necessarily a telescope or such big apparatus.

As far as I know, the use of base 60 for calculations is extremely old and widespread, in the west it came from the babylonians, but was still used in europe for some mathematical calculations in the 16th century (result being given in unit, minutes, seconds, thirds, etc... each one being one 60th of the previous). I don't know whether the base 60 ganzhi system was a chinese invention or whether it was imported (this could be possible as it was both extremely old and widespread).

Why base 60? First, because 360 is very close to the number of days in a year. Second because it enjoys a lot of nice mathematical properties...

It makes a lot of calculations very simple : 60 is divisible by 2,3,4,5,6, ie all the small numbers, so fractions like 1/3, 1/5, 1/6 have an "integer" representation in base 60 (not like the 0.3333333... in base 10).

Besides, as 60 only has very low prime factors (2,3,5), all calculations are much simpler (ie the multiplication table is more regular, simplifying fractions is easier, etc...).

Finally, it is not difficult to divide a circle in 60 equal parts, just using the ruler and compass, which makes base 60 a good angular measure as well (in fact, it is still used for angles, and for time...)

Does anyone have information on when the Ganzhi system begins to be used in china? Any theory about its origin (ie whether it is a chinese development or it was imported)?

Francois