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The Mawangdui mummy


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#31 Kenneth

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 02:02 AM

Re; very beautiful.
Will the real Lady Xin please stand up?
Well, she did so with a cane and had the bent frame of an old woman.
This is her depicted on a long painted silk banner from her tomb.

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...and this is her when being examined by morticians. She had consumed a meal of watermelon just before her heart attack and over 100 seeds were found in her stomach. A lot was learnt about her health by studying the heart, intestines, lungs and stomach.
Typically deliberate mummifaction involves removal (some or all) of the internal organs (i.e Eygptian as well as some steppes and pre-Colombian cultures), as these are a source of decay since bacterial action dissolves the flesh. Another suggestion body this was not mummified as such.
She requires much care in storage to make sure decay does not resume. Note the picture of the corpse earlier shows the sealed case which keeps her in a special enviroment.
There is no suggestion she wouldnt decay if she was left in the open air, just like a steak thawing out too long on the kitchen bench.

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To show the chopsticks more clearly, and the preservation of organic objects in the remarkable enviroment of the tomb, these are a preserved wooden lacquerware set from the Marquise of Dai's tomb.

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#32 poseph

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 02:12 AM

I have also watched the NG special in the past, and I would tend to believe that the mummification was intentional.

Just because the organs were not removed does not automatically discount it as deliberate mummification)which I take to mean the long-term preservation of the body). And in fact using this method, they were able to produce a supple mummy with joints and soft tissues intact. If anything, this method was superior to the Egyptian method, where the body is totally dessicated.

Also, the monk mommies of Japan (which is a process of self-mummification) also did not involve the removal of the organs.

They took a lot of trouble to emtomb her. If memory serves me correct, I think they emtombed here hundreds to feet below ground, and had all kinds of different materials (I forgot what) surrounding her coffin which would help with the preservation.

If the truth of the mysterious liquid can be solved, then it is indeed a case of deliberate mummification.

#33 Milardo

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 04:13 AM

I have seen the picture of what see looks like at 50 years of age there were 3 pictures (young girl, young woman, 50 years old). I think I read somewhere that she was considered a beauty maybe when she was young. Anyways the picture on the silk banner doesn't show us what she looked like at 26. Could have been just like the statue. I really actually don't think the the body itself looks that great especially the face but the hair looks pretty well done. Nice bowls and chopsticks wow 2000+ years old amazing!!!! Any ancient chopsticks made out of bamboo?
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#34 Kenneth

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 07:15 PM

I have also watched the NG special in the past, and I would tend to believe that the mummification was intentional.

Just because the organs were not removed does not automatically discount it as deliberate mummification)which I take to mean the long-term preservation of the body). And in fact using this method, they were able to produce a supple mummy with joints and soft tissues intact. If anything, this method was superior to the Egyptian method, where the body is totally dessicated.

Also, the monk mommies of Japan (which is a process of self-mummification) also did not involve the removal of the organs.

They took a lot of trouble to emtomb her. If memory serves me correct, I think they emtombed here hundreds to feet below ground, and had all kinds of different materials (I forgot what) surrounding her coffin which would help with the preservation.

If the truth of the mysterious liquid can be solved, then it is indeed a case of deliberate mummification.

Sigh, I sense I am wasting my time by bringing in some facts when I am faced with the electonic nipple of 'television'.
I have written plenty else before I mentioned the organs being present. This is not the main reason I discount it being a 'preserved corpse' by deliberate human agency.
There is much more that points to the tomb as the cause
BTW Wrapping her in silk, and in a layered coffin is a practice since Zhou times at least. Even surrounding tomb objects are draped in silk and bronzes I have inspected routinely have silk imprints on them for this reason. There is no reason to think Lady Xins complex coffin or careful wrapping was very different since a burial in Zhou or Tang would be much the same.
Wrapped in silk. Layered coffin. The objects that were buried with her are well known, and even listed in an inventory inside her tomb. Her tomb contents were catologued before the tomb was sealed. Why she was preserved is not a result of the coffin or a wrapping when pears on plates outside her coffin still held their shape.
I can't stop people from believing what they like despite all the evidence to the contrary. Any compound on her skin would NOT be the primary cause when other organic tomb contents survive outside her coffin.
It is so very simply plain and evident that the enviroment was quite special.
A good story...and a titilating 'mystery elixir' cannot compete with the more plainly established facts even if I show them here as photographs.
......BUT If you want to talk about Chinese as 'superior' mummification to the Eygptians then consider the below;.

(Hint; Do just NOT believe everything you hear on TV, including sadly the Discovery Channel and History Channel.)

1; The corpse is not even preserved like a real mummy at all. This supple corpse would require very tender care to not rot into a pile of foul goo after being inspected. Modern people need to care for them. If not kept in a sealed & controled enviroment the body is still raw meat. Only by being sealed away has it survived since first found.
2; The tombs either side of her family members were not sealed so well (despite being buried not many years apart) and all remaining of them were scraps of bone. They were also in layered coffins of large size. This makes Lady Xin a unique stroke of fortune since the actual tomb was sealed from air although there is no suggestion the construction was different. Any supposed 'mystery elixir' if used by her son and husband seems to have only left a few leg bones and a bit of pelvis for scientists.
3; The Han ideas of body decay were based on erroneous beliefs such as the preservative qualities of jade. They put jade plugs in the body cavities and thought this would work. This was based on ideas that continued both before and after Lady Xin died and makes Lady Xin again extremely rare. Trapping the 'chi' was what keep flesh from rotting alchemists assured the wealthy Han people, so jade was used throughout the period instead.
4; The enviroment of the tomb preserved everything from silkware through to meat & fruit on the plates, to the lacquered wooden plates too. Were these fruits also 'mummified?' and swimming in mysterious liquid? Clearly not. If meat on a plate survives then why is a mystery chemical needed to explain the Lady?
5; The appearance of the swollen toungue was something deliberate mummifiers avoided by tying the jaw shut, as in the Taklamahan mummies in Xinjiang. The removal of the organs is typical even if not universal. Cultures which mummify bodies seem to have stumbled on this organ corruption effect and undignified tongue swelling by experience. The Han had no long tradition like this to draw experience from.
6; The tomb is not hundreds of feet deep, nor unique in it's appearance. The cross section diagram I have seen is typical for a Chinese shaft burial and the use of layered clay & charcoal was not specifically commented on as unique. In the Eastern Han period these early style shaft burials became LESS common which again suggests the tomb was not seen as crucially functional to preservation. Later chambered burials and brick lined tombs became the standard. I have diagrams of the Lady Xin tomb and it is not visually any different to another of the West Han period.
7; Gas that escaped when the tomb was opened show that the seal on the tomb was what caused this preservation. The mechanism is not mysterious and no other reason is needed. This tomb and a handful of others with preserved bodies suggest the effect is even rarer than being hit by lightening twice compared to the hundreds of thousands of ancient tombs opened in the last several decades.
8; A comparible & more recent preserved corpse from Ching era was supple-fleshed when first exposed but upon the action of the air the body changed colour to waxy yellow and decay began. Again the mechanism that prevents and then resumes decay is not a real mummification by Chinese, but a sealed & stable enviroment which stops decay causing bacteria to act normally.
9; If an elixer existed or a process like this documetary suggested was used then where are all the Han 'mummies'? In Eygpt they were so common they were ground up for fertiliser in the 19th century yet of 400 years of Han history we have a total of 3 bodies which means I can count on one hand and have fingers left over. Seems a not very effect 'elixir' if it existed. It suggests there was no magic formula.
10; The diagrams of the tomb, extracted details of the autopsy, reveal there is already a model to explain the preservation. This unknown liquid (since the body has been inspected since the 1970's) sounds like a pretty poor primary reason to be elevated above the Eygptians when Chinese corpse preservation is as rare as teeth in a chicken. The hyped liquid on Lady Dai is refered to specifically as just 'traces' on the skin which contrasts with the idea the body was found in a liquid.
I expect the body was washed before burial. It doesnt need to be an embalming, nor would such a surface application be effective.
**A seperate preserved corpse found in 2002 suggests these documentary burials were quite different, while Lady Dai had 'traces' of an acidic solution and was wrapped in silk the other body was actually 'swimming' in liquid and the solution was not acidic (and perhaps not even a preservative one expert notes) and so the acidic traces on one and the actual alkaline liquid on another do not mean there is a common technique being used. Quite the opposite.
The version that she was sealed in liquid, or found 'swimming' in liquid turns out that it may just be she was bathed in something which left traces on her skin (see below) but that the idea this was a preservative is far from certain. It certainly did not preserve corpses if the tomb wasn't sealed, i.e The Marquis.
11; Han emperors and the Liu family had access to the best advice on tomb building, the afterlife & mortuary industry, and had a monoploy on the use of jade burial suits. These suits were 10 years in the making and in association with jade plugs were what the Han put their faith in to prevent decay. http://www.chinahist...showtopic=14562 Han law allowed for a large amount of cash annually to be invested in Imperial tomb preparation...yet no Han Emperor or King has been found other than as scraps of bone and dust.
Why would Lady Xin (but not her son, husband or the Han elite nor Emperor) have access to a secret formula (based on quite alien concepts) and yet those buried right beside her fail to use it? Something just doesn't add up.
12; There is no evidence before or after the Han period of experiments or successes with preserving corpses (beyond erroneous alchemy like jade plugs). This makes these bodies almost unique even amongst larger Han cemetaries on the same site and contemporary Han burials.
If this was a technology that existed we could expect to see clusters of bodies appearing in graves instead of singular finds in seperate places where all the neighbouring corpses have decayed normally.




The mechanism by which Lady Xin's preservation happened does not need a mystery chemical when other objects in her tomb survived almost as well. There is no concensus a chemical was used, even what it was...and there seems to be no link between at least 2 of the 3 preserved corpses mentioned in the NG documentary.




In support of my above points (futile though it may be) here are some sources;


#8

In the second exhibition room one can see the 2,000-year-old female corpse excavated from #1 tomb. All kinds of measures were adopted during her burial, including burying the coffin very deeply and sealing it tightly so that the coffin lacked oxygen as fuel for bacteria. The corpse therefore still had hair, its joints were limber and the soft organs were still soft. At the end of 1972, medical research was carried out on the corpse. The blood-type of the lady was A-type; during her lifetime she suffered from both lung and heart disease

. http://www.chinamuse...m/changsham.htm



#6

"The {Mawangdui} tombs followed a mixture of Chu and western Han Dynasty burial practices. The tombs were made of large cypress planks. The outside of the tombs were layered with white clay and charcoal; white clay layering was a practice that originated with Chu burials, while charcoal layering was a practice that was followed during the early western Han Dynasty in the Changsha area. The tombs contained nested lacquered coffins, a Chu burial custom. The tombs also followed the burial practices dictated by Emperor Wen of Han, containing no jade or precious meta

ls." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mawangdui ....

Before the Western Han period, China practiced a two-layered coffin system, by which there was an inner and outer coffin. Since Xin Zhui was married to very high rank, she used a four-layered kind of coffin. The inner coffins were painted. The second layer of the coffin was the most beautiful with black background painted with scenes of heaven including strange spirits and peculiar animals floating about

. http://www.chinamuse...m/changsham.htm

#10 (To illustrate that there is debate here, and while some focus on mystery elements others point to the tomb conditions.)

Scientists are still baffled as to what preserved the body of Lady Dai. Some say it may have been a mysterious liquid in which the body was immersed, traces of which were still found when her body was discovered

. http://gannsdeen.wor...ering-lady-dai/

Archaeologists and pathologists are still pondering the possible reasons behind her state of preservation. Was it the elaborate tomb construction that protected the body? Or, more controversially, it could have been the mysterious liquid that the body was immersed in?

http://english.peopl...825_154710.html

The tomb offers several clues . Lady Dai's corpse was swaddled in 20 layers of fine silk, which would have suffocated the bacteria which normally devour the body soon after death.
The body was also inside four coffins and placed in a 20ft square chamber so to cool it and it acted like a natural refrigerator. Five tons of charcoal were piled on top followed by 4ft of clay and 50ft of earth to ensure the tomb was 'vacum sealed for eternity'.
Some scientists suspect the real key to her preservation, however, may lie in the reddish liquid in which the body was immersed. {washed in before burial I expect, since there are only traces left}.
If so, the secret may have died with her. Tests have revealed it is mildly acidic and contains magnesium and salt, but have so far failed to identify all its contents.

http://www.forumgard...read.php?t=1393

Edited by Kenneth, 11 December 2006 - 07:56 PM.

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#35 Kenneth

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 07:52 PM

*** (see point 10 above) 2002 Expanding on the 'mystery elixir' and the idea the 2 compounds so far found are very different and both are not even confirmed as preservatives. Huiping Ling and Lady Xin finds have some real differences if you compare the below,

The well-preserved mummy of a woman in a coffin was uncovered at a highway construction site in Lianyungang in eastern Jiangsu Province on July 8, 2002.....

.....When the authorities finally examined the damaged coffin, they were shocked to find a well-preserved female corpse floating in liquid. Also from the West Han dynasty, the woman died 2,000 years ago. Hers is the third Han Dynasty mummy to be discovered. [The other two were found at the Mawangdui Han Tomb in Changsha (1971; this mummy is quite famous and is known as the Marquise of Tai or sometimes Lady Dai) and at the Jingzhou Han Tomb in Hubei Province.]The woman was found in a coffin along with a lacquer box, a food container made of bamboo, a toilet set (consisting of a comb and a copper mirror), a lock of hair, and a handwritten list of burial articles. A bronze seal also placed in the coffin (a sign that the woman's family was important) identified the woman as Huiping Ling.

Her body was floating in an alkalescent fluid and was well-preserved though discolored. Muscle tissues were still elastic. But some decay was visible on her face, abdomen, and toes. This may have happened if the liquid found in he casket was used to preserve the body and, over time, did not cover the body adequately. A reporter observed that the lower part of her left leg was thinner than the right leg. Researchers will determine if this was a sign of an illness that took her life.

On the other hand, the corpse preservation specialist studying the mummy does not believe that the fluid was a preservative. It was found to have a pH of 7.55, which counters the current belief that only an acidic fluid could preserve corpses (by preventing the growth of bacteria). Unlike the Marquise of Tai, whose well-preserved body was was placed in an acidic solution {so something quite different}, the cause of this mummy's preservation is a mystery right now.

The mummy has been sent to the Lianyungang Museum for study. Officials hope to determine details of her life and a more precise date of death. They also plan to analyze the liquid in the coffin more thoroughly. Preliminary tests indicate that it has a density of 1.01 and contains hemoglobin.

For the moment, she has been re-preserved in formalin and covered with a layer of cotton.

http://www.mummytomb....china.han3.htm



2006

Lin Huiping, the female corpse of Han Dynasty being focused by the whole world, was antomized in Lianyungang on the 5th to 7th this month by the experts team, one year from it is unearthed. This was the preparation for the unveiling of the ¡®stigma of ancient corpse¡¯. At 8:30pm on June 5, Lin Huiping was moved out from the organic glass coffin in Lianyungang Museum to the X-ray room in the local hospital. Under the supervision of Professor Xu Yongqing, famous Chinese expert on corpse studies, the doctors filmed Lin Huiping¡¯s skull, chest and abdomen, pelvis and upper and lower limbs. The computer showed her remained heart and lung organs. Then the corpse was sent to the CT room. ....
...... It showed that the height of the corpse was 159cm, weighed 25.5kg, the hair roots clear, eyebrow long, and the skin were mostly complete, fine and spring. However, the experts were more shocked by the clear textures on the feet.At 8:10pm, the anatomy was formally started. Dissected the sculpt organ, the dark gray brain case was shown. Micro-type electric saw was used to open the skull, and it was shown even the brain organ was shrunk, the brain was completely kept as an entire organ, even the frontal lobe were very clear. The experts took out the brain membrane, left and right half balls and the remained cerebella organ successively. After that, the experts took out some skin, muscle, sciatic nerve and tendon from the corpse bottom and right leg. They found that the sciatic nerve were kept well and spring.At 9:45pm, the female corpse¡¯s chest and abdomen ware opened, the abdomen membrane was found complete, and the organs such as heart, stomach, intestine and liver could seen basically. The experts took all the organs out, and dissected part of the skeleton samples, and re-sewed the body.


..... After carefully rinsing the corpse, they gave her a light yellow silk clothes and then sent her to a glass coffin with the latest prepared anti-corrosion agent. The main composition of the newly made antisepsis agent was still formalin, but according to the need of store, sterilizing and chemical matters for increasing softness and dryness were added for the long-term storage of the female corpse.Introduced by Professor Xu Yongqing, the female corpse Ling Huiping, whose skin and bowels were kept so well, provided new opportunities for the ancient corpse studies in China. After the completion of the anatomy, studies on many subjects such as morphology, pathology, biology and anthropology will start. The establishment of scientific research projects will exceed the studies on the ancient corpse in Mawangdui in Changsha.Lin Huiping was found in the ancient town in Haizhou, Lianyungang City on July 8 last year. This ancient corpse with over 2000-year history, was still complete in skill and the muscle was still spring when it was unearthed. It is the third well-kept ancient corpse of Han Dynasty found in China after Mawangdui Han Tomb in Changsha, Hunan Province, Jinzhou Han Tomb, Hubei Province.

....It is also the first wet corpse found to the north of Yangtze River in China ....
Yingshihttp://www.chinacov.com/EN/displaynews.asp?id=102

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http://www.chinatoda...e200311/p68.htm

The woman, named "Ling Huiping," was found with three others in an excavation. She was the only one well preserved. Visitors to the museum can see her hair, teeth, skin and toes. According to the museum experts, her brain, muscles, heart, lungs, liver and intestines are also intact. Ling Huiping is something of a scientific anomaly. Her coffin was found in an unusually warm and wet environment, and what most puzzles researchers is that her coffin is full of alkalescent liquid, prone to breeding bacteria. By all accounts, this important discovery shouldn't even exist.


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Edited by Kenneth, 11 December 2006 - 07:55 PM.

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#36 poseph

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 10:23 PM

I agree with you at all that the main means of preservation was the method how she was entombed (i.e., how she was buried), not how her body was treated or prepared.

I am also not convinced by this mysterious liquid angle, since even the scientists are not in agreemetn on it. So I agree with you on that count.

I don't agree with the fact that if the body was removed from its buried environment, it decayed, then it is not a mummy. By taking the body out of its intended environment, you are changing the conditions for its preservation, so of course it is going to rot. This is no different from the Alps mummy found frozen several years back. It rotted as soon as it was unfrozen (but that is an unintended mummification.

As to the rarity of success, creating a sealed environment is extremely difficult. That counts for the high failure rates. Even by today's technology, it would be extremely to create a sealed environment for 2000 years.

No one ever intended for the tomb to be disturbed, and the body taken out of its environment like that. It was meant to be preserved for eternity in its original environment, alongside the preserved meat, fruites, cloths etc., that was to accompany her in afterlife. Even the Egyptian mummies were intened to be left in its original location, not to be disturbed. The major differance is that the Egyptians did not depend on the burial method for mummification, but actually treated the body itself.

Maybe we are having a disagreement on the definition of "mummification." I take a broader view and more layman's view, and perhaps not supported by the general scientific community.

By taking such elaborate measures, Lady Dai's relatives intended to preserve her body, and not allow it to rot away. (of course with the jade preservation concept, they were totally off their rocker). This was why I had said that the mummification was deliberate. Perhaps I should have said deliberate preservation, rather than mummification? Would that we more accurate?

#37 Kenneth

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 11:09 PM

Perhaps I should have said deliberate preservation, rather than mummification? Would that be more accurate?

As I understand it, since a preserved corpse is a lot broader and could include the iceman, Yuri and Celtic bog people and such.
Still some versions if internet discussion call Yuri a 'mummy' too.
I think I prefer the term 'preserved corpse' but arguing over the appropriate meaning isn't so important as investigating the physical aspects of this, compared to other cultural examples.
The 'deliberate or not' debate here at least made me learn a little more about these preserved bodies today.

I tend to think that so much care was put into the tomb that preservation was a very very rare bi-product rather than a real aim.
The abandonment of shaft burials such as this in Eastern Han would suggest this as well as that the people above ground have no real way of knowing if it works or not.
If Chinese preserved meats over winter in such a fashion then there would be some way to see how the process was discovered and then applied, but as it is it seems to me to be a one in a million thing.

It isn't important for this to be completely agreed on but when headlines hype this example I think it is turned into something more than a scientific miracle and more a way of instilling a sense of 'one-up-manship'.
That's about the only negative aspect of the debate and coverage.
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#38 Publius

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 05:46 PM

A mummy is simply a dried up corpse.

Mummification, on the other hand, is the process intended to dessicate and preserve the corpse. Lady Dai was preserved, but it was the combination of sealing the tomb (which had a low chance of success considering the other failed attempts) and the dry and arid environmental conditions that ultimately caused her preservation--not human intentions. Without these conditions, her tomb would have only preserved the artifacts and not the corpse.

On a side note, when I visited her preserved body in Changsha, I tried for over a half an hour to snap a picture of her. But the guard was exceptional and followed me wherever I went, so I left with only memories. The exhibit was wonderful though, especially the exquisite silks and lacquerware.
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#39 Yun

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 05:25 AM

Lady Dai was preserved, but it was the combination of sealing the tomb (which had a low chance of success considering the other failed attempts) and the dry and arid environmental conditions that ultimately caused her preservation--not human intentions.


The same factors produced the famous Caucasoid 'Tarim mummies'.
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#40 Kenneth

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 04:15 PM

They aren't the same. The Tarim mummies were deliberate and dessicated by the arid enviroment in a conscious process that was repeated for centuries. The mouths were tied shut to prevent the toungues swelling and creating an undignified look such as Lady Dai so they clearly viewed the bodies after the primary burial. Bodies could have been preserved and then reburied or moved about if the settlement moved. It is by practicing secondary burials that it is thought mummifaction in deserts was first accidently discovered and then exploited.
Lady Dai's tomb was cool, uniquely stable and oxegen starved. It should not be called arid. It is a different mechanism which prevented decay & one which left the flesh supple & seems it was not intentional (or at the very least was unsucessful 99.99% of the time).
Unlike the Tarim mummies though if a person dug up lady Dai and then treked for a week with a body on the back of a mule the 'Han preserved corpses' would not arrive to civilisation in the same state as when they left.
Consider the difference between beef jerky, or in China a 'beef paper', and then compare it to a snap frozen steak that you take from the freezer and put it on the bench.
Put the 2 side by side and check back in a week.
Only mummified bodies like the Tarim mummies would remain crunchy and delicious. Lady Dai would be difficult to approach, and probably quite different to behold (green & oozing).
There are many distinct differences here that can be percieved without destructive testing. The Han simply didnt mummify people.
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#41 Freddy1

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Posted 03 May 2008 - 07:43 PM

(even though this tiopic post is old I thought I might revive it)

From what I understand the mummy was preserved in mercury sulphide solution of some sort. It had high levels of mercury in the yellowish brown liquid.

I have heard of cases of people (in Europe) being preserved with arsenic.
There are also cases of religious Catholic saints/Nuns who had died and their bodies did not decade.

(note some sensitive members might not like to see this site because there are some pictures of dead bodies of the saints shown)
http://members.chell...rruptBodies.htm

Heres another site
http://members.aol.c...rruptbodies.htm

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#42 Publius

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 06:39 PM

(even though this tiopic post is old I thought I might revive it)

From what I understand the mummy was preserved in mercury sulphide solution of some sort. It had high levels of mercury in the yellowish brown liquid.

I have heard of cases of people (in Europe) being preserved with arsenic.
There are also cases of religious Catholic saints/Nuns who had died and their bodies did not decade.

(note some sensitive members might not like to see this site because there are some pictures of dead bodies of the saints shown)
http://members.chell...rruptBodies.htm

Heres another site
http://members.aol.c...rruptbodies.htm


I am curious Freddy1,

how did you know that she was preserved in mercury sulfide? There was a liquid (some say an elixir) in her tomb, but I was under the impression that scientists did not know or could not agree what the mysterious liquid was.

And, I believe that the liquid was outside the body, not inside the body. Is that correct?
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#43 Freddy1

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 07:00 PM

I am curious Freddy1,

how did you know that she was preserved in mercury sulfide? There was a liquid (some say an elixir) in her tomb, but I was under the impression that scientists did not know or could not agree what the mysterious liquid was.

And, I believe that the liquid was outside the body, not inside the body. Is that correct?

If I recall correctly I read the mercury sulfide account from Professor Joseph Needham. It might have been in his book titled "The Genius of China".*
*(Now there might be other substances mixed in with the liquid which I am not sure about. I'm sure a mass spectrometer analysies would at least be able to identify some of the rudimentry chemical composition of the liquid material.)

From the accounts I have read over the years I believe she was submerged in the liquid. The entire coffin was filled with the liquid.
I have seen pictures where they have autopsy parts of her body like her intestines, stomach. I believe the liquid was both inside and outside her body.

There are also two other mummies preserved in a similar fashion but there isnt much information about them comming out from what I know. ( I think one was discover just a few year ago)

Edited by Freddy1, 05 May 2008 - 08:55 PM.


#44 William O'Chee

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 06:31 AM

The Caucasian peoples of Xinjiang, who were known the Chinese as the Yuezhi, certainly did practise mummification, and they understood its principles over 4,000 years ago. For the record, they did not remove the internal organs.

Well reserved Yuezhi mummies are invariably buried wrapped in warm clothes. Those ones which were not well preserved were dressed in lighter weight clothes. The conclusion which we can draw from this is that those bodies which were buried in winter at shallow depth were quickly frozen, thus preventing the process of bacteriological decay. The bodies were also buried in conditions which allowed air to circulate over salt rich soil. This sucked the moisture out of the bodies, allowing natural mummification to take place.

We know that the Yuezhi understood mummification because of the use of chin straps to prevent "mummy gape", and because of the deliberate use of trenches under the bodies to maximise the flow of drying air.

Could it have been that the Marchioness Dai was buried in a particularly cold winter, so that the body underwent some sort of freezing, with mummification then being aided by some other circumstances?

#45 Publius

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Posted 06 May 2008 - 07:22 PM

If I recall correctly I read the mercury sulfide account from Professor Joseph Needham. It might have been in his book titled "The Genius of China".*
*(Now there might be other substances mixed in with the liquid which I am not sure about. I'm sure a mass spectrometer analysies would at least be able to identify some of the rudimentry chemical composition of the liquid material.)

From the accounts I have read over the years I believe she was submerged in the liquid. The entire coffin was filled with the liquid.
I have seen pictures where they have autopsy parts of her body like her intestines, stomach. I believe the liquid was both inside and outside her body.

There are also two other mummies preserved in a similar fashion but there isnt much information about them comming out from what I know. ( I think one was discover just a few year ago)


I don't recall Needham writing about the liquid (though his Science and Technology volume is HUGE) and I went through Temple's abridgment, "The Genius of China", and couldn't find any references... Really, I hope I'm wrong because that would clear up this mystery (at least it's a mystery to me).

In Changsha, I've seen the organs that are displayed around the room in formaldehyde filled jars. Interesting really. I also saw the excavation process on National Geographic and the preservation liquid was red. Some of the scientists said that there may be cinnabar within the liquid (which would make sense given its supposed mythical properties), though they said the exact contents of the liquid were inconclusive.

And you're right, there was another body excavated from the same time period (160 B.C. or so) near Lady Dai's tomb along the Yangtze, and there was another Han tomb excavated along China's coast with a similar liquid. Here's an article that claims the liquid from that third tomb was "alkalescent" and is in need of further analysis:

The well-preserved mummy of a woman in a coffin was uncovered at a highway construction site in Lianyungang in eastern Jiangsu Province on July 8, 2002.

"Suddenly my digger's claw touched something hard, but at first I thought it was stone," Jiang Maodong, a construction worker, told reporters. When he discovered that the machine had struck a wooden coffin Jiang thought he and his machine had come across a relatively recent burial site. But when he saw the coffin, he realized that he had found an ancient tomb and he contacted authorities.

In all, Jiang discovered four coffins, including the one that the digger had damaged. At first, authorities ignored the damaged coffin and explored the contents of the other three. The artifacts they found suggested that the coffins were from the West Han dynasty (206 BC - AD 24).

When the authorities finally examined the damaged coffin, they were shocked to find a well-preserved female corpse floating in liquid. Also from the West Han dynasty, the woman died 2,000 years ago. Hers is the third Han Dynasty mummy to be discovered. [The other two were found at the Mawangdui Han Tomb in Changsha (1971; this mummy is quite famous and is known as the Marquise of Tai or sometimes Lady Dai) and at the Jingzhou Han Tomb in Hubei Province.]

The woman was found in a coffin along with a lacquer box, a food container made of bamboo, a toilet set (consisting of a comb and a copper mirror), a lock of hair, and a handwritten list of burial articles. A bronze seal also placed in the coffin (a sign that the woman's family was important) identified the woman as Huiping Ling.

Her body was floating in an alkalescent fluid and was well-preserved though discolored. Muscle tissues were still elastic. But some decay was visible on her face, abdomen, and toes. This may have happened if the liquid found in he casket was used to preserve the body and, over time, did not cover the body adequately. A reporter observed that the lower part of her left leg was thinner than the right leg. Researchers will determine if this was a sign of an illness that took her life.

On the other hand, the corpse preservation specialist studying the mummy does not believe that the fluid was a preservative. It was found to have a pH of 7.55, which counters the current belief that only an acidic fluid could preserve corpses (by preventing the growth of bacteria). Unlike the Marquise of Tai, whose well-preserved body was was placed in an acidic solution, the cause of this mummy's preservation is a mystery right now.

The mummy has been sent to the Lianyungang Museum for study. Officials hope to determine details of her life and a more precise date of death. They also plan to analyze the liquid in the coffin more thoroughly. Preliminary tests indicate that it has a density of 1.01 and contains hemoglobin.

For the moment, she has been re-preserved in formalin and covered with a layer of cotton.


Still, a mystery to me (if I find more, I'll post) :g:
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