84 replies to this topic

[thirdgumi]

Nice work Mengtzu, keep it going.

[MengTzu]

Note: Liang Zhong Shu (梁中书) was not the name of the person but the surname of the person (Liáng 梁) followed by his official designation (Secretary 中书).

I have been wondering about the same thing before, but decided to write it out like a name in the bio because it probably is his actual name. See this exerpt (translated by yours truly) from chapter 12:

"It turns out that the Defense Official of the Da Ming Prefecture commanded the troops while on his horse, and commandedthe people while down from his horse, and is thus the most powerful. This Defense Official is called Liang Zhong Shu, and his formal name is Shi Jie."

I hesitate to translate "Zhong Shu" because the text didn't say he is a Zhong Shu, but that he is called a Zhong Shu. This seems to indicate that it's a sort of name or nickname. Of course, if it's a nickname, then I should translate it, like I translated the nicknames of the heroes. And having seen your explanation, I'm starting to lean more toward translating the term.

[MengTzu]

So was 108 outlaws a fictional story of based on historical facts?

That's a good question! That's also a very loaded question, because no one can answer it with certainty. Song Jiang is very likely historical, because historical documents mention him. I'm not nearly as good a historian as most forummers here are, so I give deference to their opinions on this matter and welcome their corrections on what I'm going to say.The History of the Song Dynasty (Songshi) mentions that Song Jiang, "with 36," attacked various prefectures and places. (it's not clear what "with 36" means, but whatever it means, it is probably based on this that the legend of "36 major heroes" was formed. You see, of the 108 heroes, 36 are Heavenly Stars and are also considered "major heroes"; 72 are Earthly Stars, and are also considered "minor heroes.") Song shi mentions that Song Jiang's "talent must be above the average person," noting his ability to attack various places and the government forces were no match with him. Finally, a government official named Zhang Shu Ye ambushed him and captured him, and Song Jiang surrendered. The Songshi then says that Song Jiang fought Fang La as redemption for his crimes.

There had been some doubts about the veracity of these accounts, even though they are recorded in the official history. However, a poem by a contemporary of Song Jiang mentioned Song Jiang and his surrender. There are still questions regarding whether he fought Fang La, but that story, of course, has become a part of the legend and a part of the novel, whether or not it was historical.

The historicity of the rest of the heroes are more difficult to ascertain, and I'm frankly not an expert in this area. I've read that Guan Sheng is the name of a historical person. The famous Yang and Huyan families seem to be historical as well.

It has been said that the Romance of Three Kingdoms is 70% historical and 30% fictional, and the Outlaws of the Marsh is 10% historical and 90% fictional.

Nice work Mengtzu, keep it going.

Thanks a lot man. The funny thing is that this keeps ME going. I"m going through some stressful times, and this is a very good outlet for me. Thanks again for your interest in my writing!

Edited by MengTzu, 08 August 2007 - 03:09 PM.

[MengTzu]

:SPOILERS:

Zhang Qing, the Featherless Arrow; the Heavenly Agile Star
天捷星 沒羽箭 張清

One of the Eight Swift Cavaliers and Vanguards. Not to be confused with the other Zhang Qing, whose "Qing" is written as 青 (meaning blue), while this Zhang Qing's "Qing" is written as 清 (meaning clear).

Zhang Qing the Featherless Arrow first appeared in chapter 70. While he used a spear in battle, his specialty was throwing rocks with high precision. He was a commander in the Eastern Chang Prefecture. At that time, the Mount Liang heroes could not decide whether Song Jiang or Lu Jun Yi should become the leader, so they let fate decide: Song Jiang was to attack Eastern Ping, and Lu Jun Yi was to attack Eastern Chang, and whoever won first would become the leader (see Song Jiang and Lu Jun Yi's bios.)

Lu Jun Yi had tremendous trouble with his expedition as Zhang Qing's rock-throwing was too devastating for Lu's men. After Song Jiang had captured Eastern Ping, Song Jiang led his troops to help Lu. But the combined forces of both Song and Lu were still incapable of beating Zhang: one after another, the heroes were defeated by Zhang's rock-throwing, including such valiant warriorsas Lin Chong, Huyan Zhuo, Guan Sheng, Dong Ping. Eventually, the Mount Liang forces managed to capture Zhang's assisstant officers, but Liu Tang was captured, and many heroes went back to the encampment injured that day.

Wu Yong finally figured out a plan: to lure Zhang out to the water by conspicuously moving carts of supplies. Zhang fell for the trap and attempted to capture the supplies, only to be captured by Mount Liang's navy.

Zhang Qing fought many battles and campaigns as a Mount Liang hero, both before and after the amnesty. He was appointed one of the Eight Swift Cavaliers and Vanguards. In the campaign against the rebel Tian Hu, Zhang Qing met the princess Qing Ying of Tian Hu's side in a dream. It turns out that Tian Hu murdered Qing Ying's father and forced his mother to death, and Qing Ying was later adopted by the wife of one of Tian Hu's brother-in-law (which is why Qing Ying became a princess). Zhang Qing taught Qing Ying the rock-throwing skill in their dreams. Later, Zhang Qing went in disguise and pretended to help Tian Hu's forces. He then met Qing Ying in real life and married her. Husband and wife then worked together, poisoned Tian Hu's brother-in-law, took over the city, and was instrumental in eventually bringing down Tian Hu's "kingdom".

Zhang Qing was killed in the last campaign.

[MengTzu]

:SPOILERS:

Zhu Tong, the Duke with a Beautiful Beard; the Heavenly Full Star
天滿星 美髯公 朱仝

One of the Eight Swift Cavaliers and Vanguards. I have to say that my translation for his title is one of the most awkward ones ever, but I have little choice. I thought about "the Beautiful-Bearded Duke," but that might lead one to think that it means a beautiful duke with beards. Instead, the title 美髯公 refers to a duke with beautiful beards, hence the awkward translation. The title, of course, was that of Guan Yu from ROTK. Like Guan Yu, Zhu Tong had very long beards. In fact, he had also other features of Guan Yu: red face, phoenix eyes, etc. Also, in Zhu Tong's case, the title was just a nickname -- Zhu Tong was not actually a duke. He was, in fact, a sort of low-ranking police officer in Hun Cheng County.

He first appeared in chapter 13. He was one of the two "police chiefs" in Hun Cheng County: one led the cavalry division, the other led the infantry division, and Zhu Tong was the cavalry chief. The infantry chief was Lei Heng. Zhu Tong was a friend of Chao Gai and Song Jiang. When Chao Gai was identified as a robber of the Imperial Tutor Cai Jing's one-hundred-thousand guan birthday present (see Wu Yong's bio), Song Jiang informed Chao Gai and his gang so they could flee. While they were fleeing, Chao Gai encountered Zhu Tong and his pursuing troops, but Zhu Tong let him go. Zhu Tong later also let Song Jiang escape after Song Jiang murdered Yan Poxi.

Later when Lei Heng got in trouble for manslaughter, Zhu Tong again released him, and got himself in trouble. He was exiled to the Cang Prefecture. While there, the governor's little child was fascinated by Zhu Tong's beards, so the governor sent Zhu Tong to take little governor junior out to play. The Mount Liang heroes had other plans -- they sent Lui Heng (who joined Mount Liang after being released by Zhu Tong) to divert Zhu, while Li Kui kidnapped the little boy, whom Li Kui later killed -- it wasn't clear if the killing was done by accident, or if it was part of the plan; anyway, I find this part of the story too in humane. The child had nothing to do with any of this.

So again, Zhu Tong got in trouble, and had to flee to and join Mount Liang. He fought many battles campaigns as a Mount Liang hero. He was appointed one of the Eight Swift Cavaliers and Vanguard. He survived all the Mount Liang campaigns and was appointed an official. He later helped in the fight against the Jin, and was promoted to a high ranking officer. The novel didn't mention his death.

:END OF SPOILERS:

Edited by MengTzu, 09 August 2007 - 10:22 AM.

[MengTzu]

:SPOILERS:

Shi Jin, the Nine-Tattooed Dragons; the Heavenly Small Star
天微星 九紋龍 史進

One of the Eight Swift Cavaliers and Vanguards. First appeared in chapter 2. Son of a wealthy landowner. A man named Wang Jin fled to the Shi family village to avoid the villain Gao Lin's oppression. Wang Jin was a trainer of the imperial army and a great martial artist. He saw Shi Jin practicing martial arts with a staff and commented that it would be ineffective against real fighters. Offended, Shi Jin challenged Wang Jin to a fight, in which Shi Jin quickly lost. Shi Jin asked Wang Jin to become his master, and learned the martial arts of the 18 weapons.

After Wang Jin left and Shi Jin's father passed away, Shi Jin inherited the estate but didn't work hard maintain the lands. When the bandits from the nearby Mount Shao Hua attacked, he captured one of the leaders. The other leaders begged him to release the captured leader, and he became friends with them. But their friendship was discovered, and goverment troops came to arrest them while they were feasting in Shi Jin's mansion. They fought their way through back to Mount Shao Hua, but Shi Jin refused to join them.

Shi Jin then went to look for his master Wang Jin, but to no avail. Instead, he met Lu Da, who later became the monk Lu Zhi Shen. Much later, he ran into Lu Zhi Shen again (now a monk) and helped him defeat the corrupt Buddhist monk and corrupt Daoist priest at Ya Guan Temple.

Failing to find his master and having spent all his money, Shi Jin went back to Mount Shao Hua and beame the leader there. Later, an artist appealed to him to rescue his daughter, who was captured by the governor of the Hua Prefecture. Shi Jin went to save her but was himself captured. The Mount Liang heroes went to capture Hua Prefecture and saved him, and he and his assistant bandit leaders joined Mount Liang.

Shi Jin fought many battles and campaigns as a Mount Liang hero. He was appointed one of the Eight Swift Cavaliers and Vanguards. His weapon of choice was the famous three-point, twin-edge, four-holes, eight-rings pole arm sword. He was killed in the last campaign.

Edited by MengTzu, 09 August 2007 - 11:35 AM.

[MengTzu]

:SPOILERS:

Mu Hong, the Unstoppable; the Heavenly Investigative Star
天究星 沒遮攔 穆弘

One of the Eight Swift Cavaliers and Vanguards. First appeared 37, he and his brother Mu Chun were local rich kids who were also local bullies. At that time, Song Jiang was one his way to exile in the Jiang Prefecture in the south (see Song Jiang'sbio). When Song Jiang gave money to a man was performing martial arts and selling medicines in their town without first getting their permissions, Mu Chun wanted to beat up Song Jiang, only to be stopped by the performer. All the local taverns, of course, was afraid to let Song Jiang stay out of fear ofthe Mu brothers, so Song Jiang sought and found a place to stay in a mansion. That mansion turned out to belong to the Mu brother's father, who was a kind man. Discovering this, Song Jiang and his escorting guards fled, with the Mu borthers hot in pursuit. Song Jiang was rescued by Zhang Heng, who turned out to be a robber and who tried to rob and kill Song and the guards, but Li Jin rescued them just in time.

Mu Hong and his brother ended their hostility after finding out Song Jiang's identity, as the heroes of the world at the time all had tremendous respect for Song Jiang. Later, when Song Jiang was arrested for writing rebellious poems and sentenced to death, Mu Hong joined the other heroes of the Jia Prefecture in preparation of rescuing Song Jiang. The Mount Liang heroes and Li Kui rescued Song Jiang before Mu's group could, but both groups met up at White Dragon Temple. Then they helped Song Jiang exact vengeance on Wang Wen Bing, the person who discovered Song's poems and accused him.

Mu fought many battles and campaigns as a Mount Liang hero. He was appointed one of the Eight Swift Cavaliers and Vanguards. In the Fang La campaign, he disguised as a rich man to gain access to the first city they planned to attack. He died of an illness during or after the same campaign.

:END OF SPOILERS:

[Yang Zongbao]

*Lei Heng in Mandarin, from Zhu Tong's bio.

*Mt. Shaohua in Shi Jin's bio.

Keep it up mate! Are you writing these yourself, or translating?

[thirdgumi]

Thanks again for your interest in my writing

No problem man, I really like it, I've read the graphic novel of Water Margin when I was a kid, and a lot of thing I've already forgot, now your writings just made things come up again.

[MengTzu]

*Lei Heng in Mandarin, from Zhu Tong's bio.

*Mt. Shaohua in Shi Jin's bio.

Keep it up mate! Are you writing these yourself, or translating?

I'm writing almost everything, with a few small bits and pieces in Song Jiang's bio that are from General Zhaoyun. This was because when I wrote the first bio (Song Jiang'sbio), I started out just building upon GZ's bios, but as I was writing Song Jiang's bio, I changed and added more and more stuff, so I ended up writing almost all of Song Jiang's bio myself. I also wrote the bios of the other heroes myself instead of building on GZ's works.

Thanks for all the support, everyone.

Edited by MengTzu, 09 August 2007 - 10:21 AM.

[MengTzu]

:SPOILERS:

Lu Zhi Shen, the Tattooed Monk; the Heavenly Lone Star
天孤星 花和尚 魯智深

One of the Ten Commanders of the Mount Liang Infantry. First appeared in chapter 3. He was originally called Lu Da, and was a military officer in the northern borders. One day, while drinking with friends, he heard an old man named Jin and his daughter crying in one of the tavern’s rooms. He found out that a local butcher named Zheng Tu was forcing them to pay back money that they never owed him (he initially promised Jin a huge sum for marrying his daughter, but he never paid; when his wife chased the young girl out of the house, Zheng demanded that money that he never paid). Lu gathered enough funds for the Jin’s to pay off their rent and move home. Lu then went to confront Zheng Tu the butcher, and killed him with three punches in a fit of rage. Lu fled.

Wanted for murder, Lu wandered about until he ran into the Jin’s again. Young Jin had already married a local rich man, Zhao, who decided to shelter Lu. Zhao then recommended Lu to become a monk in the Five Plateau Mountain Monastery. Although the other monks opposed this, the abbot of the monastery, Zhi Zhen, had predicted through meditations that Lu would become great and eventually "achieve the right result" (成正果 -- does this mean achieving Nirvana?). Lu was given the monastic title Zhi Shen, and hence he was known as Lu Zhi Shen.

Despite the abbot’s wish to keep him, however, Lu was uncontrollable. Twice he was drunk and caused great havoc in the monastery, and the abbot had no choice but to send him to another monastery in the Kaifeng capital.

En route to Kaifeng, Lu had various adventures: at the Peach Blossom Village, Lu defeated a bandit who tried to force the village elder to hand his daughter over for marriage, and later convinced him to give up. At the Precious Pearl Monastery, Lu defeated a corrupt Buddhist monk and a corrupt Daoist priest with the help of Shi Jin.

In Kaifeng, Lu held the position of a gardener, and subdued some local hooligans attempting to steal vegetables. He later met Lin Chong and swore brotherhood with him. When Lin Chong got in trouble and was exiled to the Cang Prefecture, Lu followed him without being discovered and rescued him when the escorting guarded tried to kill him.

Because Lu tried to save Lin Chong, the villain Gao Qiu tried to retaliate against him, so Lu fled again. He wanted to join the Mount Double Dragon bandits, but their leader refused. With the help of Yang Zhi and Cao Zheng, he killedthe bandit leader, and Lu and Yang Zhi took over as new leaders.

Later, the Mount Liang heroes defeated Huyan Zhuo, who fled to the Qin Prefecture and battled the bandits of Mounts Double Dragon, Peach Blossoms, and White Tiger. The bandits of the three mounts later allied with Mount Liang to defeat Huyan Zhuo and the Qin Prefecture, and afterwards all joined Mount Liang. Thus Lu became a Mount Liang hero.

Lu fought many battles and campaigns as a Mount Liang hero, before and after the amnesty. He was appointed one of the Ten Commanders of the Infantry. During the Tian Hu campaign, he fell into a hidden well and found a mysterious place, where he met a monk who enlightened him with Buddhist teaching. This happened again in the Fang La campaign. He captured Fang La just as he was escaping.

After the Fang La campaign, Lu was resting at the Six Harmonies Monastery with the rest of the troops. He heard the waves crashing near the monastery, and remembered Abbot Zhi Zhen's prophecy, that Lu would die the monk's death (圓寂) when he heard the crashing waves. So Lu sat on the meditation mat and passed away in the meditation pose. The book didn't mention whether Lu achieved Nirvana, but I think it is implied that Lu either achieved it when he died or eventually achieved it, as Abbot Zhi Zhen's prophecy said that he would "achieve the right result," and I"m guessing that means achieving Nirvana (Anyone familiar with Buddhism please correct me if I'm wrong.)

Many have mistaken Lu as rash and thoughtless, but that’s because of Lu’s deceptive appearance. He was actually one of the deepest characters, with a thoughtful, practical mind, careful deliberations, and unfathomable compassion. The way he followed Lin Chong without being noticed, rescued him just in time, and accompanied him until there was no longer any threat to his life, was the greatest evidence of the depth of his mind.

:END OF SPOILERS:

Edited by MengTzu, 09 August 2007 - 11:53 AM.

[MengTzu]

I’ve decided that the bios are getting too detailed and long, and people unfamiliar with the story might feel put off by that. so I’ll write shorter ones, with a brief abstract in the beginning so people can just read that without reading the whole thing if they so choose.

:SPOILERS:

Wu Song, the Traveling Monk; the Heavenly Injured Star
天傷星 行者 武松

Abstract: One of the Ten Commanders of the Mount Liang Infantry. Avenged his brother’s death by killing his adulterous sister-in-law and the adulterer, because they have killed his brother. While at prison, he was employed by Shi En to defeat Jiang Zhong the Door God and reclaim the “Forest of Pleasure.” Jiang Zhong retaliated and almost had him killed, and Wu Song lashed back and killed him and the other plotters, along with sixteen others. Became a wandering monk in order to escape arrest. Joined Lu’s Mount Double Dragons bandits. Joined Mount Liang after the Qin Prefecture campaign along with the entire Mount Double Dragons gang. Fought numerous battles and campaigns before and after the amnesty. Became a monk at the Six Harmony Monastery after the last campaign.

Biography: Wu Song first appeared in chapter 22. He was hiding in the wealthy Chai Jin’s mansion after beating up a government official in drunkenness. (Chai Jin should not be confused with Cai Jing the Imperial Tutor. This Chai Jin was a wealthy landlord who assisted the various heroes many times.) Wu Song met Song Jiang at Chai’s mansion and became friends.

Wu Song left the mansion to look for his older brother, Wu Da, who was a dwarve. En route, Wu Song killed a tiger. As a reward he was appointed an officer in the local county, where he found his brother. Wu Da had by then married a beautiful woman, Pan Jin Lin. Pan was captivated by Wu Song and tried to seduce him, but Wu Song turned her down. While Wu Song was away on duty, Pan had an affair with the rich man Ximin Qing with the help of Old Mrs. Wang. When Wu Da found out, they killed Wu Da. When Wu Song returned, he tried to bring his grievances in court, but the judge was bribed by Ximin. Wu Song then took justice into his own hands, killed Pan and Ximin, and brought Wang to court.

Wu Song was exiled to the Meng Prefecture. En route, he met the tavern owners and couple Zhang Qing and Sun Er Liang. (This Zhang Qing is Zhang Qing the Gardener, not Zhang Qing the Featherless Arrow, an entirely different character) At the Meng Prefecture, he met the son of the chief prison guard, Shi En. Shi En was the owner of a place called the Forest of Pleasure, a place for merchants, gamblers, pawnshops, and taverns. A man named Jiang Zhong the Door God took over the “forest” by force, and so Shi En recruited Wu Song’s help. Wu Song defeated Jiang and reclaimed the “forest.”

Jiang Zhong, however, had powerful friends in the government. They helped him trap Wu Song and almost had him killed, but Wu Song killed the assassins and went to one of the official’s house where Jiang and the other plotters gathered. Wu Song killed them and everyone in the house in a fit of rage. He wrote with blood on the wall: “The killer – Wu Song, the tiger fighter.”

Wu Song met the Zhang couple again, who helped him by turning his appearance into that of a wandering monk. Wu Song then joined Lu Zhi Shen’s Mount Double Dragons bandits.

After the Qing Prefecture campaign (see Huyan Zhuo’s bio), Wu Song joined Mount Liang along with the entire gang of Mount Double Dragons.

Wu Song fought many battles and campaigns as a Mount Liang hero, before and after the amnesty. He was appointed one of the Ten Commanders of the Infantry. After the last campaign, he became a monk at the Six Harmonies Monastery.

:END OF SPOILERS:

Edited by MengTzu, 09 August 2007 - 03:52 PM.

[thirdgumi]

Yeah, Lu Zhi Shen is one of my favourite, maybe the most favourite, not just because his family name, Lu 鲁, is the same as mine , he is compasionate, he hates unjustice, he acts like the punisher, punish everything that is evil. In the end, when he reaches Nirvana is very touching.

[MengTzu]

Yeah, Lu Zhi Shen is one of my favourite, maybe the most favourite, not just because his family name, Lu 鲁, is the same as mine , he is compasionate, he hates unjustice, he acts like the punisher, punish everything that is evil. In the end, when he reaches Nirvana is very touching.

He's one of my favorites too. About his ending, I was probably being misleading when I said he "achieved Nirvana and passed from this life at the Six Harmonies Monastery". the book actually didn't say he reached Nirvana at the point of his death. It just says that he heard the crashing waves near the monastery, and he remembered Abbot Zhi Zhen's prophecy, that Lu would die a monk's death (圓寂) when he heard the crashing waves. Lu then sat on the meditation mat and passed away in the meditation pose. I'm not sure if the connotation here is that he reached Nirvana. I'll edit his bio regarding this.

It seems, though, that at least in Chinese Buddhism, a monk is said to have achieved Nirvana if he dies, regardless of whether we know he has or not. In that sense, Lu's death is simply called Nirvana.

Edited by MengTzu, 09 August 2007 - 11:49 AM.

[thirdgumi]

I’ve decided that the bios are getting too detailed and long, and people unfamiliar with the story might feel put off by that. so I’ll write shorter ones, with a brief abstract in the beginning so people can just read that without reading the whole thing if they so choose.

No, please write long bios, it's more interesting, but it's your shot.

Ximin Xing

In mandarim it's Ximen Qing. I'm simpathetic to Pan Jinlian though, her story is more complicated, she was forced to marry Wu Da by her previous mistress because her master had a crush on her, and it developed into a tragedy. Just a side note, in ancient China, in most of the cases where wifes murder husbands had to do with unhappy marriage and the fact that divorce was something condenmed by society.