13 replies to this topic

[Nguyen-Trong Cam]

In the Wei Valley River Valley, before the invasion of ethnics that functioned as the exporters of Southern Cultures, there existed no transition or continuity between the microlithic civilization and the Yang Shao Culture.
Analyses of anthopological, linguistic, and archeological data allow us to form a theory that speculates that the origin of neolithic Proto-Han must be found in the South. We can say that an early neolithic age ethnic in South China, earlier residing at a location bordering the center of the late Hoa Binh Culture, has migrated during the 5th Millenia BC along the Chia-Ling Chiang range in Sichuan and crossed the passes in the Ch'in Ling range to enter the Wei River Valley.
Nature helped them establish and develop quickly agriculture in flooded plains. At the end of the 5th Millenia and beginning of the 4th Millenia, a mid neolithic age ethnic left decorated pottery to be found in Ban Po, a local Yang Shao site. They have aveolar prognathism, with broad noses, indicating clearly a Southern origin.
In the 4th Millenia BC, part of the population moved East along the Yellow River, met in West of Henan people of the Ch'in Wang Chai Culture who migrated there earlier from the Han River Valley. The interaction betwen these two peoples, has created a basis for the founding of the Yin Culture. The language of Yin, based on writings at the end of the 2nd Millenia BC, was Proto-Hua, essentially Sino-Tibetan, though it showed a few traits very different from the linguistic groups within the language family.
The groups that went West in the 4th Millenia BC go through even more transformation. One of these groups arrived to the Upper Yellow River Valley in Gansu, now called Qiang or Jung, whereas another group became the pillar of the Zhou. At the end of the 2nd Millenia, the Zhou defeated the alliance of tribes founded by the Yin in the Central Plains.
This invasion sparked the establishment of many statelets, and with the friction with neighboring tribes speaking Burmo-Tibetan, Proto-Tungusic, Austronesian and Tai, Hua-Hsia appeared in the 6th and 4th Centuries BC in the Central Plains. This can be called Proto Han-Hua.

The above was translated from a Vietnamese translation back to English.
Source: Kriukov et al. 1978

Edited by Nguyen-Trong Cam, 27 April 2006 - 12:51 AM.

[Nguyen-Trong Cam]

Kriukov, meet Oppenheimer: Stephen Oppenheimer, in Eden in the East --The Drowned Continent of Southeast Asia theorized that about 7000 years ago, the rise of sea level to over 100 m from the original level flooded 2/3 of Sundaland, and sent people inland. This pressure created immigration North, West to as far as The Middle East.
About bigger noses, I always am amazed that the warriors of Chin The Original Emeror also have this trait, despite natural selection

Edited by Nguyen-Trong Cam, 27 April 2006 - 12:51 AM.

[LYY]

Kriukov, meet Oppenheimer: Stephen Oppenheimer, in Eden in the East --The Drowned Continent of Southeast Asia theorized that about 7000 years ago, the rise of sea level to over 100 m from the original level flooded 2/3 of Sundaland, and sent people inland. This pressure created immigration North, West to as far as The Middle East.
About bigger noses, I always am amazed that the warriors of Chin The Original Emeror also have this trait, despite natural selection

http://koenraadelst....s/atlantis.html

[Nguyen-Trong Cam]

http://koenraadelst....s/atlantis.html

Thanks for the reference, LYY. Interesting.
A side note: the word "dva" has the cognate "doi," meaning a couple, and "dua," meaning chopsticks in Vietnamese.

[nguoiVietchanhtong]

But the Chinese have a valid claim on inventing chopsticks. How do you say Yang Shao in Vietnamese.

[DearCoolZ]

About bigger noses, I always am amazed that the warriors of Chin The Original Emeror also have this trait, despite natural selection

i beg for differ














qin shihuang

[DearCoolZ]

your source is dated and almost 30 years old.



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the yangshao culture was definetly a northern culture,read the highlighted part.


The culture fluorished mainly in the provinces of Henan, Shaanxi and Shanxi.
these 3 provinces are in northern china


The Yangshao people cultivated millet extensively; some villages also cultivated wheat or rice.
Millet and wheat are the main food for northern chinese even til today.

They kept such animals as pigs and dogs, as well as sheep, goats, and cattle, but much of their meat came from hunting and fishing.
only northern people raise Sheep,goats and cattle.

The Yangshao culture (Chinese: 仰韶文化; Pinyin: Yǎngsháo wénhuà) was a Neolithic culture that existed extensively along the central Yellow River in China. The Yangshao culture is dated from around 5000 BC to 3000 BC. The culture is named after Yangshao, the first excavated representative village of this culture, which was discovered in 1921 in Henan Province. The culture fluorished mainly in the provinces of Henan, Shaanxi and Shanxi.
The Yangshao people cultivated millet extensively; some villages also cultivated wheat or rice. They kept such animals as pigs and dogs, as well as sheep, goats, and cattle, but much of their meat came from hunting and fishing. Their stone tools were polished and highly specialized. The Yangshao people may also have practiced an early form of silkworm cultivation.

[Nguyen-Trong Cam]

But the Chinese have a valid claim on inventing chopsticks. How do you say Yang Shao in Vietnamese.

The Chinese word for chopsticks, I heard, is Tro+. Khoa'i (Sino-Vietnamese) meaning appetite helper(s). And Yang Shao is a predominantly millet culture, and have no need for chopsticks; chopsticks are used in South China only.

i beg for differ








qin shihuang

I have seen other pictures showing bigger noses and protruding mouths. One with a bigger nose is on the cover of The Archeology of China by Kwang-Chih Chang.

Edited by Nguyen-Trong Cam, 30 April 2006 - 11:58 AM.

[Nguyen-Trong Cam]

your source is dated and almost 30 years old.
-------------------------------------------------------------
the yangshao culture was definetly a northern culture,read the highlighted part.
The culture fluorished mainly in the provinces of Henan, Shaanxi and Shanxi.
these 3 provinces are in northern china
The Yangshao people cultivated millet extensively; some villages also cultivated wheat or rice.
Millet and wheat are the main food for northern chinese even til today.

They kept such animals as pigs and dogs, as well as sheep, goats, and cattle, but much of their meat came from hunting and fishing.
only northern people raise Sheep,goats and cattle.

Southern inlfuence can be seen in the number of axes and adzes ("yues"), and in tatooed faces depicted in painted bowls.
Archeology of China, by Kwang-Chih Chang, p. 111, Yale University Press, 1978.

[DaMo]

Those portraits of Qin SHD are probably not contemporary with his lifetime (the warriors are quite valid though).

[DearCoolZ]

The Chinese word for chopsticks, I heard, is Tro+. Khoa'i (Sino-Vietnamese) meaning appetite helper(s). And Yang Shao is a predominantly millet culture, and have no need for chopsticks; chopsticks are used in South China only.

the chinese word for chopsticks is kuaizi.it does not means appetite helper. who said chopsticks are used in south china only? everbody in china use it even in ancient times.

I have seen other pictures showing bigger noses and protruding mouths. One with a bigger nose is on the cover of The Archeology of China by Kwang-Chih Chang.

really? show me the pic then. according to aancient paintings of him,he clearly has no these features.

[DearCoolZ]

Southern inlfuence can be seen in the number of axes and adzes ("yues"), and in tatooed faces depicted in painted bowls.
Archeology of China, by Kwang-Chih Chang, p. 111, Yale University Press, 1978.

can you show me those tattoed faces and those number of axes and adzes?

[Nguyen-Trong Cam]

can you show me those tattoed faces and those number of axes and adzes?

Sorry, kwaizi, right. But doesn't kwai means pleasure, which in this case means appetite?
My scanner is messed up, but the book and the man are famous. Li Chi was probably the first ethnic Chinese Ivy League trained famous archeologist, then Chang Kwang-Chih is for the following generation. It should be available in most libraries.

[DearCoolZ]

Sorry, kwaizi, right. But doesn't kwai means pleasure, which in this case means appetite?
My scanner is messed up, but the book and the man are famous. Li Chi was probably the first ethnic Chinese Ivy League trained famous archeologist, then Chang Kwang-Chih is for the following generation. It should be available in most libraries.

kuai means fast. pleasure is shufu,huanle,lequ
i have a question. how did this guy knows what qin shihuang looked like?