52 replies to this topic

[TMPikachu]

I know that. Does it really matter though? I'm just talking about ties.

[General_Zhaoyun]

I believe the uniform in PRC for schools requires one to wear the red scarves which kinda reflect the communist style.

In Taiwan, the school uniform requires one to wear a hat much alike that in Japan.

[MING-LOYALIST]

Lets just say no other chinese ethnic minority(non-han) has shaped Chinese civilisation more then the manchus.

[Kulong]

Lets just say no other chinese ethnic minority(non-han) has shaped Chinese civilisation more then the manchus.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For better or worse, that is true...

[Heisui]

FYI- The Touba Manchurians and Western Turkic Mongolians founded the Tang Dynasty and Manchurians and Mongols founded the Qing Dynasty. The two dynasties are considered two of the most glorious and most cultured and developed periods of China. Not to mention the greatest extension of China's landmass. Not forgetting the glorious Yuan Dynasty of course in China's extension of empire building -With the exception of bubonic plague which desimated most of east Asia's population for a hundred yrs before it subsided leading to it's short duration . The Ming Dynasty had the adventureous spirit in it's large sailing fleet to explore the sea's. Why do you insult people.

Lets just say no other chinese ethnic minority(non-han) has shaped Chinese civilisation more then the manchus.

[kaixin]

^The Tang and Sui Dynasties were only half-Turkic/Mongol. Their paternal origins are still native Chinese. Back then, it was common for the northern aristocrats to intermarry with northern nomadic rulers. It was encouraged and even implemented. The nomads back then were less racist compared to Yuan and Qing Manchus.

Even so, Chinese historians were keen to to mark down and write which dynasty is foreign or native. If the Sui and Tang had nomadic paternal lineage, they would not be recorded as "Chinese." This was the case for the Toba (Northern Wei and Northern Zhou dynasties). They tried to rule as Chinese, but because of their foreign origins, Chinese historians have never considered them "Chinese."

So, your assertion that Tang Dynasty is "completely" Toba is false. There is an attempt by Western and Korean nationalist historians to revise Chinese history in this fashion. It is their attempt to smear Chinese history. Don't buy into it.

[Heisui]

Kaixin:
Such hostility against Manchurians and Mongols ! You smears the truth with hatred. Tang Dynasty was Tuoba Manchurian and Western Turkic Mongolian - Tuejue in it's founding of the dynasty. It seems your blantant attempt to distort the truth is transparent.
I never posted that Tang was completely Manchurian so don't malign me!

What is your definition of Chinese? Is it just Han? or Is it Yue? As most people are aware of the Han are not a homogeneous ethnic group, which leads me and some others to conclude your being a bigot & prejudice to promote your hate agenda and deliberately distorting facts and maligning the various ethnic groups and the intermix that make up "CHINESE".

Edited by Heisui, 23 July 2005 - 11:50 PM.

[kaixin]

The Tang Dynasty was descended from the rulers of Western Liang during Age of Fragmentation. Their ancestor was a Han Dynasty general (Li Guangli). In our Han Chinese tradition, you are what your father is. It doesn't matter if your mom, grandmother, etc. wasn't Chinese. We go by the paternal lineage.

[Heisui]

The Tuoba General Dugguu fought and conqured on the battlefield then subsequent family retained surname Yuan/Yuen. Many figures in Asian Continent history retained/adapted Han surnames BUT WERE NOT HAN. We are speaking of paternal lineage. Han characters used as was Uighur script.

The Tang Dynasty was descended from the rulers of Western Liang during Age of Fragmentation.  Their ancestor was a Han Dynasty general (Li Guangli).  In our Han Chinese tradition, you are what your father is.  It doesn't matter if your mom, grandmother, etc. wasn't Chinese.  We go by the paternal lineage.

[Heisui]

Han Dynasty 206B.C-220A.D

Tang Dynasty 618A.D-approx 907A.D

People do the math.

Kaixin:
Your obvious attempt to lie and distort the truth is transparent and your deliberate attempt to denigrate and insult Manchurian,Mongol,and Uighur with your pathetic attempts to slander and malign their achievements because of you bigoted prejudice hostility towards these groups of people in China only highlights you need for pretensious "FACE" and attempt to claim achievement and status that was not earned. The Han ethnic group is extremely diverse in it's people and bloodlines & not some singular homogeneous entity.

[tianzhuwoye]

Hey all,

What makes up an ethnicity, who should be included or excluded from one, where the various ethnicities came from and so on are all up for grabs since these categories and the motives we have for using them all change over time. None of these definitions can be absolute and we all advance ethnic categorizations in different ways depending on our personal experiences and politics. Since ethnicites are all made up anyway, talking about them tends to be pretty frustrating but let's see if we can keep the language a little more friendly-like. Thanks!

[kaixin]

^I know, but that troll is just too much at times. Tang Emperor Li Shimin often said that all people under the heavens were one family. But, some of these anti-Han and anti-Chinese revisionists (esp. in Korea and America) have a very dark motive and agenda to rob or distort our true past.

I do all I can to defend my Tang ancestors, heritage and spirit.

[Gubook Janggoon]

Once again Kaixin, enough with those personal attacks. Calling someone a troll isn't going to solve anything.

BTW, stop blaming everything on the Americans and Koreans. That gets old real fast.

[Lafiel]

This issue about "Chinese" and "non-Chinese" always seems to be the most sensitive of all. It never fails to excite the passions.

The main difficulty is that "Chinese" is often equated with Han, with the unfortunate outcome that anyone non-Han is labeled a "non-Chinese invader." This is an issue I am struggling with myself. When we speak of history, we are constantly confronted by the fact that ethnic and political boundaries changed all the time. But the language we use now to interpret history must contain some conventions, or else it's hard to communicate our meaning. What standard of "Chinese" can we use?

[TMPikachu]

really, they are all Chinese

Just that the somewhat recent history had a minority group 'dominate' over the traditional leaders, Han people, making for a strange dink of history.

plus the humiliation suffered under Manchu rule *tho' inflicted by western powers, just makes it all the more negative, or gives reasons to be.

and really, those haircuts... noone likes the haircuts.