52 replies to this topic

[Heisui]

Lafiel:
Simplistic but, if you are Chinese don't concern yourself if your this or that! Just be Proud and but be aware the "HAN" is in origin a Central Plains People with a extremely diverse DNA pool of many different peopleS. The Han Dynasty conquered the Yue southern territories and people. The YUE (Present day Guangdong-Cantonese,Fukien,Zheijiange) They like to share the glory but were conquered people and not Han. It's about "FACE". The Tang Dynasty (non Han) conquered previous Han and Yue territory. The Yuan China Dynasty (non Han)conquered vastly more territory and the Qing Dynasty (non Han)conqured large territory which up to present times constitute most of the current borders of China. (All of these dynasties were multi-ethnic in composition)We are all Chinese within a large Family. Too many hatemongers promoting Han this or Han that when they themselves are NOT EVEN Han. Back in the good old days People DID NOT IDENTIFY THEMSELVES AS A SINGULAR CHINESE PEOPLE OR NATION. These hatemongers labeling people as "not Chinese" have their personal agenda or axe to grind. (i.e) American policy in conjunction with the Taiwanese Independence Movement on Taiwan via the American Institute there openly engages in destablizing policies to weaken China. A product is the "Collapse of China" and the CIA funded front company Epoch Times publishing Cold War rhetoric and books and the funding of Falun Gong Dafa. It sickens me American interventionist policy instigated and ran the Tiananmen Incident resulting in many innocent lives in China and the Kwangju Massacre again instigated by American policy in South Korea. In Indonesia Cold War American policy ordered the ethnic slaughter of thousands of ethnic Chinese in Indonesia!

This issue about "Chinese" and "non-Chinese" always seems to be the most sensitive of all.  It never fails to excite the passions.

The main difficulty is that "Chinese" is often equated with Han, with the unfortunate outcome that anyone non-Han is labeled a "non-Chinese invader."  This is an issue I am struggling with myself.  When we speak of history, we are constantly confronted by the fact that ethnic and political boundaries changed all the time.  But the language we use now to interpret history must contain some conventions, or else it's hard to communicate our meaning.  What standard of "Chinese" can we use?

[kaixin]

^This is the same kind of revisionist who will say Yue Fei is not a hero no more. They are literally doing that in China right now. To appease the minorities, they slander Yue Fei (a real Chinese hero) and honor Genghis Khan (a butcher of Chinese) instead.

Han Dynasty was founded by a man from Chu state, who might be distantly related to the Yue. Tang Dynasty traced descent ultimately from Laotzu (founder of Daoism), a Yue person but native to Chu kingdom and later fled to Qin kingdom.

Tang Dynasty did not conquer the Yue. They were already conquered during the Han Dynasty. It was only in Tang Dynasty that more people from the north settled in Yue lands and mixed with them. That is the accurate version. People in Guangdong refer to themselves as Tang-ren because some became totally Sinicized during that era and some actually were Tang refugees from the northern plains. Either way you see it, they have a right to the Tang heritage just as any other Chinese.

[Heisui]

The !800's was a period of WAR and RAVAGE for China. Invasion and Ocupation

Invasion from Britain resulted in ceding Hong Kong to Britain in 1842 in Treaty of Nanjing also resulting in FORCED opening of Guangzhou, Xiamen, Fuzhou,Shanghai,and Ningbo.

Invasion from Russia resulted in ceding the Dai Dongbei - Treaty of Peking 1860. Over 1 Million Sq Kilometers. Aigun Treaty 1858
Tacheng Treaty 1864 ceded to Russia - Northwest Dzungaria
The Pamirs divided between Russia and Britain 1896

Invasion from Japan resulted in Chosun (Korea) being ceded in 1895 and Taiwan ceded under Treaty of Shimonoseki 1895

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Europeans,U.S,Russia and Japan had a CONTAINMENT POLICY to restrict China from modernizing to further pursue their coercion,bullying,invasion and occupation of China's land to establish a political and economic zone to engage in drug trafficking and looting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Manchurian Progressives Bao Huanan and He Xiuzhai, Bao Kun and Tian Yabin and Han progressive Zhang Rong, proposed the establishment of a Constitutional Monarchy - coalition republican government composed of Manchu,Han and Mongolian people.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Empress Cixi was a totally selfish/selfabsorbed lady who DENIED The Qing military needed funding to built a credible Navy and Modern Armament for the Ground Forces to defend China.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The new Republic of China turned out to be more corrupt and Mongolia declared Independence in 1924. Chiang Keishek and Song Meilung with Charles Song looted China's treasury and decided not to Form Coalition Government with CCP with U.S military urging (Advisor Gen.Joseph Stillwell)and later Chiang Kaishek via Song Meiling following U.S policy advocated Nuke China doctrine thru out Korean War administrations of Truman>Kennedy administration.

[ShanXiYan]

really, they are all Chinese
...
and really, those haircuts... noone likes the haircuts.

Agree...and so agree! All the guys' lovely long hair, gone!

I've determined to get myself some kind of a Han Fu someday when I go back to China, to wear during traditional festival days or even dress-up occassions. I own several qi pao and I do consider it a traditional Chinese dress because it is indeed part of history, but on the other hand, I also want to support the older traditional clothing as well. It'll probably be a problem to find someone who can make han fu though. Probably no one knows how they were made anymore, and I know they had different styles depending on the time period.

[DomaHwang]

Could you give more detailed list of Machu contribution especially in old times?
(I mean before the Qing) Thanks in advance!

[kaixin]

^Before the Qing, the Manchus were the Jin Dynasty that attacked both Khitan Liao and Southern Song. I don't know what kind of contribution the Jurchen Jin contributed to China at all...

[Heisui]

Short brace split limb bone wood bow which generated high velocity for mounted riders. Big difference from English long bow.

Could you give more detailed list of Machu contribution especially in old times?
(I mean before the Qing) Thanks in advance!

[MING-LOYALIST]

Strange words for a MING-LOYALIST to say. I'm not a Ming Loyalist and I disagree. 

State the reasons why you disagree.
I mean can anyone even imagine what would China be like today if Manchus didn't exist?? We can almost say that China would not be recognisable without the Manchus.

Also I don't insult Chinese ethnic minorities. I grew up in Inner-Mongolia a huge mix of Han, Mongol and muslim Hui peoples living in Harmony.