35 replies to this topic

[somechineseperson]

One of my concerns is the explicit and institutionalised discrimination against ethnic Chinese people in certain south-east Asian countries, such as Malaysia and Indonesia. Are there any Chinese people here who are from those regions? Just how bad is it?

From what I know about those places, and the occasional anti-Chinese violence that occurs there, I don't think I would dare to visit those countries.

Apparently, the "justification" for the discriminatory policies against Chinese people in those countries is that if all are treated equally, then the Chinese will eventually "take-over" their countries at least economically.

I must say this "justification" is like a kind of "self-racism". They are assuming that if Chinese and natives are allowed to compete on an equal basis, then the natives will always lose.

What do you think? I'd like to know your opinions, especially if you are from south-east Asia. Do you think the discriminatory policies are justifiable?

[MengTzu]

I must say this "justification" is like a kind of "self-racism". They are assuming that if Chinese and natives are allowed to compete on an equal basis, then the natives will always lose.

Although the assumption might not be flawed. I'm certainly not saying that some race is inherently better at making money. What I'm saying is that wealth and poverty nowadays are often divided along racial and ethnic lines (and the reasons are very complex to explain here.) Now, if the Chinese start out richer than others, then it's certainly not a bad assumption that they'll do better in a competition.

I'm supportive of affirmative action, but I opine (and I think many believe this also) that we not limit it to racial and ethnic standards. Even in the America, there are a lot of very, very poor White people, and affirmative action really puts them in a bad position. Nor does affirmative action really help minorities if it's based only on race, since the people who end up be benefitted from such an affirmative action program are middle class and well to do minorities (like middle class African Americans, instead of poor African Americans, ended up being benefitted.)

[somechineseperson]

Although the assumption might not be flawed. I'm certainly not saying that some race is inherently better at making money. What I'm saying is that wealth and poverty nowadays are often divided along racial and ethnic lines (and the reasons are very complex to explain here.) Now, if the Chinese start out richer than others, then it's certainly not a bad assumption that they'll do better in a competition.

I'm supportive of affirmative action, but I opine (and I think many believe this also) that we not limit it to racial and ethnic standards. Even in the America, there are a lot of very, very poor White people, and affirmative action really puts them in a bad position. Nor does affirmative action really help minorities if it's based only on race, since the people who end up be benefitted from such an affirmative action program are middle class and well to do minorities (like middle class African Americans, instead of poor African Americans, ended up being benefitted.)

Even if the assumption is true, it still does not justify the discriminatory policies against Chinese people in these countries. Let's not forget that the Chinese are actually a minority in these countries.

[TMPikachu]

in those countries, aren't there many wealthy Chinese?

I suspect these policies could just be in so the few wealthy Chinese won't have competition from other Chinese.

[lanjingling]

in those countries, aren't there many wealthy Chinese?

I suspect these policies could just be in so the few wealthy Chinese won't have competition from other Chinese.

I like your humor
Anyway, in Thailand, the PM , Thaksin Shinawatra , is of chinese descent, & his family is the wealthiest of the country , & there is no affirmative action , nor discrimanation against any group of people in Thailand.

[LYY]

in those countries, aren't there many wealthy Chinese?

Yes.
Just look at the top 100 list of the richest man in the South East Asia.

I suspect these policies could just be in so the few wealthy Chinese won't have competition from other Chinese.

Quite true, if i undertand you correctly.
In Malaysia for example, the Prime Minister has many wealthy Chinese friends. So as the sultan in every state. In many political and economical consensus, the PM has to know the bottom line of the Chinese. The best source for that is via the wealthy Chinese businessmen, before it is brought to the table for discussion with the Chinese-based political parties in the government.

2004 top 40 wealthest people in SEA:

http://www.forbes.co...ry1=&category2=

[Genghis_Khan]

China Daily BBS
List of Racial Discrimination in Malaysia

List of Racial Discriminations in Malaysia, practiced by Gov't as well as Gov't agencies. This list is an open secret. Best verified by Gov't itself because it got the statistics. This list is not in the order of importance,. that means the first one on the list is not the most important and the last one on the list does not mean least important.

This list is a common knowledge to a lot of Malaysians, especially those Non-Malays (Tamils, Chinese, Ibans, Kadazans, orang asli, Christians, etc) who were being racially discriminated. Figures in this list are estimates only and please take it as a guide only. Gov't of Malaysia has the most correct figures. Is Gov't of Malaysia too ashamed to publish their racist acts by publishing racial statistics?

This list cover a period of about 47 years since Independence (1957).

List of racial discriminations (Malaysia):


20 reported cases whereby Malay ambulance attendance treated Chinese patients inhumanely and Malay Gov't hospital staffs purposely delay attending to Chinese patients in 2003. Unreported cases may be 200.

600,000 are the Tamil and Chinese Malaysians with red IC and was rejected repeatedly when applying for citizenship for 40 years. Perhaps 60 % of them had already passed away due to old age. This shows racism of how easily Indonesians got their citizenship compare with the Chinese and Indians.

95% of Gov't contracts are given to Malays.

3 only 3 out of 12 Human Rights item s are ratified by Malaysia Gov't since 1960

0 Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (UN Human Rights) is not ratified by Malaysia Gov't. since 1960s

5% Only 5% is given to Non-Malays for Gov't scholarships over 40 years.

0 Chinese or Tamils were sent to Japan & Korea under "Look East Policy".

100% All business licensees are controlled by Malay gov't e.g. Taxi permits, AP permit etc.

2 Chinese taxi drivers were barred from driving in JB Larkin bus station. There are about 30 taxi drivers and 3 are Chinese in Oct 2004. Spoiling taxi club properties was the reason given.

80% of the Chinese rice millers in Kedah had to be sold to Malay controlled Bernas in 1980s. Otherwise, life is make difficult for Chinese rice millers.

10 At least 10 Chinese owned bus companies (throughout Malaysia, throughout 40 years) had to be sold to MARA or other Malay transport companies due to rejection by Malay authority to Chinese application for bus routes and rejection for their application for new buses. (FYI, during the times this bus company were operate by Chinese company without the help of government and they have no make any loss but when the government base company (malay company) take over all the Chinese bus company, they declare they have make loss and the government have to use public fund to help them)

1 Dewan Gan Boon Leong (in Malacca) was altered to other name (e.g. Dewan Serbaguna or sort ) when it was being officially used for a few days. Gov't try to shun Chinese names. This racism happened in around year 2000 or sort.

100% All contractors working under Petronas projects must be Bumiputra status.

3% of Petronas employees are Chinese.

30 gov't produced TV dramas and film always showed that the bad guys had Chinese; face and the good guys had Malay face. You can check it out since 1970s. Recent years, this tendency become less.

100 big companies set up, managed and owned by Chinese Malaysians were taken over / bought over by gov't / Malays and later managed by Malays since 1970s e.g. Maybank, Southern Bank, UMBC, UMW, MISC, UTC, etc to name few...

100 constituencies (states and parliaments) had been racistly re-delineated so that Chinese voters were diluted so that Chinese candidates particularly DAP candidates lost in election since 1970s.

20 constituencies won by DAP would not get funds from gov't to develop. Or, these Chinese majority constituencies would be the last to be developed.

0 temples / churches were built for each Taman (housing estates). But, every Taman got at least one mosque / surau built. (each mosque have the capacity to occupy 5,000 people which cost billions to build it)

3000 mosques / surau were built in all Taman throughout Malaysia since 1970. No temples, no churches are required to be built in Taman.

2637 Malay primary schools built since 1968 – 2000

48 Chinese primary schools closed. down since 1968 – 2000

144 Tamil primary schools closed down since 1968 – 2000

128 STPM Chinese top students could not get into the course that they aspired i.e. Medicine (mostly left this country and migrate to UK, USA, Singapore.

1 publishing of Bible in Iban language banned (in 2002?) / They try to convert every race and ethnic to Islam (They even convert the native people and also the ophans)

20 cases every year whereby Chinese drivers who accidentally knocked down Malays were seriously assaulted or killed by Malays.

50 cases each year whereby Chinese, especially Chinese youths being beaten up by Malay youths in public places. We may check at police reports provided the police took the report, otherwise, there will be no record.

7% is the present (2004) Malaysian Indians population, a drop from 12% in 1957

0 percent of Non-Malays staffs is legally required in Malay companies. But there must be 30 % Malays staffs in Chinese companies.

12% is what ASN / ASB got per annum while banks' fixed deposit is only about 3.5% per annum.

There are hundreds more racial discrimin ations in Malaysia to add to this list of "colossal" racism. It is hoped that the victims of racism will write in to expose racism. Malaysian Government should publish statistics showing how much Malays had benefited from the "special rights" of Malays and at the same time tell the statistics of how much other minority races are being discriminated. Hence, the responsibility lies in the Malaysian gov't itself to publish unadulterated statistics of racial discrimination. If the Malaysia gov't hide the statistics above, then there must be some evil doings, immoral doings, sinful doings and shameful doings, like the Nazi, going on onto the Non-Malays of Malaysia.

It's true.. that recently they have a debate in the parliment where they want to make sure all public listed company CEO and Managing Director must be Malays because they said we have to give them the chance to sit at high post because they were not clever enough to do it themself so other race must be fair to them and let them expose to high position...

Civilized nation, unlike evil Nazi, must publish statistics to show its treatment on its minority races, This is what Malaysia must publish...We are asking for the publication of the statistics showing how "implementation of special rights of Malays" had inflicted colossal racial discri mination onto Non-Malays.

Ends

But still with this discrimination, there is still Chinese Billionaire here although most of them (malaysian chinese billionaire) were station in other country like hongkong, singapore and etc...
This show how tough guy (ethnic) we are...

Edited by Genghis_Khan, 29 March 2006 - 04:29 AM.

[mudd]

I like your humor
Anyway, in Thailand, the PM , Thaksin Shinawatra , is of chinese descent, & his family is the wealthiest of the country , & there is no affirmative action , nor discrimanation against any group of people in Thailand.

I'm here to inquire about Thaksin's "Chineseness". In other forums, people say his 100% Chinese, but in this wikipedia discussion page, it says that he has little chinese blood. I mean, is he pure Chinese or not? I'm quite confused.

"He is a Hakka Thai Chinese." This suggests he of wholly Chinese descent. I don't think this is correct. I thought his Chinese ancestry was some generations back and that his family has intermarried with ethnic Thais. The article should state correctly what his family background is. Adam 00:52, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

'Thai Chinese' AFAIK refers to any Thai with a substantial amount of Chinese ancestry, not necessarily pure Chinese. (If you asked a Thai for an example of a Thai Chinese, Thaksin would probably be the first name they mentioned). The Hakka bit (if true- I've never heard it elsewhere) is an interesting snippet, but it could perhaps be reformulated to be less dogmatic. Markyour words 12:34, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

OK: Thaksin's great-grandfather Seng Sae Khu was a Hakka Chinese immigrant from Guandong who arrived in Siam in the 1860s. In 1908 he settled in Chiang Mai. He married a Thai woman called Sangdi. His eldest son, Chiang Sae Khu, was born in Chanthaburi in 1890, and also married a Thai woman, called Saeng Somna. Chiang's eldest son, Sak, adopted the Thai surname Shinawatra ("does good routinely") in 1938 during the Phibun regime's anti-Chinese campaigns, and the rest of the family also adopted it, including Loet, Thaksin's father, born in Chiang Mai in 1919. Loet married Yindi Ramingwong. Thaksin is thus one-8th Chinese by blood, and his family was "Thaïfied" by the 1930s. (Source: Pasuk Phongpaichit and Chris Baker, Thaksin: the Business of Politics in Thailand)\, Silkworm Books 2004). I will incorporate this in the article. Adam 13:37, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

[Genghis_Khan]

From what I know about those places, and the occasional anti-Chinese violence that occurs there, I don't think I would dare to visit those countries.

Haha... not until that level!!
You still can visit Malaysia, we live harmony here...
But with prejudice treatment off course...
I have few malays friends, they are also consider my good friends...
It is just the government policies to discriminate non-bumiputera, and off course i do agree that some majority malays doesn't really like other races...
Some how the most educated one are okay...

*Educated in here means formal education and NOT THE ISLAMIC Education, I can see here that most Islamic education malays do stays away from other races or have little contact. I think there are the most problematic types...

[Genghis_Khan]

I like your humor
Anyway, in Thailand, the PM , Thaksin Shinawatra , is of chinese descent, & his family is the wealthiest of the country , & there is no affirmative action , nor discrimanation against any group of people in Thailand.

I think Thailand are better than Malaysia...
Thai kings are descendant of Teochew Nan
and Thai people really mix around Chinese married Thai and etc...
The all become Thai...
and they are mostly buddhism...
but not in Malaysia...
I think the main problem is not only of the Malays...but also the religion itself...
If the Malays weren't Islamic, then I think we can be closer...

[mudd]

^You're Chinese-Malaysian? I thought you were Chinese-Indonesian?!

[Darth Lin]

China Daily BBS
List of Racial Discrimination in Malaysia

List of Racial Discriminations in Malaysia, practiced by Gov't as well as Gov't agencies. This list is an open secret. Best verified by Gov't itself because it got the statistics. This list is not in the order of importance,. that means the first one on the list is not the most important and the last one on the list does not mean least important.

This list is a common knowledge to a lot of Malaysians, especially those Non-Malays (Tamils, Chinese, Ibans, Kadazans, orang asli, Christians, etc) who were being racially discriminated. Figures in this list are estimates only and please take it as a guide only. Gov't of Malaysia has the most correct figures. Is Gov't of Malaysia too ashamed to publish their racist acts by publishing racial statistics?

This list cover a period of about 47 years since Independence (1957).

List of racial discriminations (Malaysia):
20 reported cases whereby Malay ambulance attendance treated Chinese patients inhumanely and Malay Gov't hospital staffs purposely delay attending to Chinese patients in 2003. Unreported cases may be 200.

600,000 are the Tamil and Chinese Malaysians with red IC and was rejected repeatedly when applying for citizenship for 40 years. Perhaps 60 % of them had already passed away due to old age. This shows racism of how easily Indonesians got their citizenship compare with the Chinese and Indians.

95% of Gov't contracts are given to Malays.

3 only 3 out of 12 Human Rights item s are ratified by Malaysia Gov't since 1960

0 Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (UN Human Rights) is not ratified by Malaysia Gov't. since 1960s

5% Only 5% is given to Non-Malays for Gov't scholarships over 40 years.

0 Chinese or Tamils were sent to Japan & Korea under "Look East Policy".

100% All business licensees are controlled by Malay gov't e.g. Taxi permits, AP permit etc.

2 Chinese taxi drivers were barred from driving in JB Larkin bus station. There are about 30 taxi drivers and 3 are Chinese in Oct 2004. Spoiling taxi club properties was the reason given.

80% of the Chinese rice millers in Kedah had to be sold to Malay controlled Bernas in 1980s. Otherwise, life is make difficult for Chinese rice millers.

10 At least 10 Chinese owned bus companies (throughout Malaysia, throughout 40 years) had to be sold to MARA or other Malay transport companies due to rejection by Malay authority to Chinese application for bus routes and rejection for their application for new buses. (FYI, during the times this bus company were operate by Chinese company without the help of government and they have no make any loss but when the government base company (malay company) take over all the Chinese bus company, they declare they have make loss and the government have to use public fund to help them)

1 Dewan Gan Boon Leong (in Malacca) was altered to other name (e.g. Dewan Serbaguna or sort ) when it was being officially used for a few days. Gov't try to shun Chinese names. This racism happened in around year 2000 or sort.

100% All contractors working under Petronas projects must be Bumiputra status.

3% of Petronas employees are Chinese.

30 gov't produced TV dramas and film always showed that the bad guys had Chinese; face and the good guys had Malay face. You can check it out since 1970s. Recent years, this tendency become less.

100 big companies set up, managed and owned by Chinese Malaysians were taken over / bought over by gov't / Malays and later managed by Malays since 1970s e.g. Maybank, Southern Bank, UMBC, UMW, MISC, UTC, etc to name few...

100 constituencies (states and parliaments) had been racistly re-delineated so that Chinese voters were diluted so that Chinese candidates particularly DAP candidates lost in election since 1970s.

20 constituencies won by DAP would not get funds from gov't to develop. Or, these Chinese majority constituencies would be the last to be developed.

0 temples / churches were built for each Taman (housing estates). But, every Taman got at least one mosque / surau built. (each mosque have the capacity to occupy 5,000 people which cost billions to build it)

3000 mosques / surau were built in all Taman throughout Malaysia since 1970. No temples, no churches are required to be built in Taman.

2637 Malay primary schools built since 1968 – 2000

48 Chinese primary schools closed. down since 1968 – 2000

144 Tamil primary schools closed down since 1968 – 2000

128 STPM Chinese top students could not get into the course that they aspired i.e. Medicine (mostly left this country and migrate to UK, USA, Singapore.

1 publishing of Bible in Iban language banned (in 2002?) / They try to convert every race and ethnic to Islam (They even convert the native people and also the ophans)

20 cases every year whereby Chinese drivers who accidentally knocked down Malays were seriously assaulted or killed by Malays.

50 cases each year whereby Chinese, especially Chinese youths being beaten up by Malay youths in public places. We may check at police reports provided the police took the report, otherwise, there will be no record.

7% is the present (2004) Malaysian Indians population, a drop from 12% in 1957

0 percent of Non-Malays staffs is legally required in Malay companies. But there must be 30 % Malays staffs in Chinese companies.

12% is what ASN / ASB got per annum while banks' fixed deposit is only about 3.5% per annum.

There are hundreds more racial discrimin ations in Malaysia to add to this list of "colossal" racism. It is hoped that the victims of racism will write in to expose racism. Malaysian Government should publish statistics showing how much Malays had benefited from the "special rights" of Malays and at the same time tell the statistics of how much other minority races are being discriminated. Hence, the responsibility lies in the Malaysian gov't itself to publish unadulterated statistics of racial discrimination. If the Malaysia gov't hide the statistics above, then there must be some evil doings, immoral doings, sinful doings and shameful doings, like the Nazi, going on onto the Non-Malays of Malaysia.

It's true.. that recently they have a debate in the parliment where they want to make sure all public listed company CEO and Managing Director must be Malays because they said we have to give them the chance to sit at high post because they were not clever enough to do it themself so other race must be fair to them and let them expose to high position...

Civilized nation, unlike evil Nazi, must publish statistics to show its treatment on its minority races, This is what Malaysia must publish...We are asking for the publication of the statistics showing how "implementation of special rights of Malays" had inflicted colossal racial discri mination onto Non-Malays.

Ends

But still with this discrimination, there is still Chinese Billionaire here although most of them (malaysian chinese billionaire) were station in other country like hongkong, singapore and etc...
This show how tough guy (ethnic) we are...

Wow! I didn't know it is that bad there. Guess I will never think of going there, nevermind living there. So do you think that the problem of discrimination is worse than countries like in USA, UK, Australia, Canada.,,etc? Actually, I think I will like to start a discuss topic: which nation has the worst discrimination towards Asians (or Chinese)! Maybe you will like to post your opinion on my post? see you there!

[Peace]

Well, I am Chinese Indonesian. In Indonesia, there's always unwritten law that you (native, government, military) were "allowed" to discriminate against Chinese. It's an open secret, no matter how convincing government denied it. That's why more and more Chinese Indonesian moved from Indonesia.

[William O'Chee]

Well, I am Chinese Indonesian. In Indonesia, there's always unwritten law that you (native, government, military) were "allowed" to discriminate against Chinese. It's an open secret, no matter how convincing government denied it. That's why more and more Chinese Indonesian moved from Indonesia.

You're welcome to come to Australia!

[Peace]

You're welcome to come to Australia!

Thank you. I would like to do it someday ^^