14 replies to this topic

[ustiger]

In China, every year is assigned an animal name or "sign" according to a repeating cycle: Rat, Ox, Tiger, Rabbit, Dragon, Snake, Horse, Sheep, Monkey, Rooster, Dog, and Pig. The year used for animal assignment is based on Lunar Calendar, which is usually about 20 to 50 days later than the usual calendar we use. So simply assign an animal to the year of your birht could be wrong, particularly if your birthday is in the first 30 or 40 days. Say your birthday is 1/1/1980, your lunar birthday will be 11/14/1979 and your zodiac animal will be Goat. To convert your birthday to chinese lunar calendar and find out your Chinese animal zodiac, go to this: http://friends.bizch....com/zodiac.php

[General_Zhaoyun]

Great link.. note that the 12 zodiacs animals corresponds to the 12 "Dizhi 地" (terrestial branches) in ancient chinese calendar system..

[Lin Duanwen]

Not very accurate. The year of dog arrives on 4 feb 2006 which is "start of spring" day (立春). But that system follows the 1st day of Chinese New Year as the new zodiac year which is totally wrong.

[ChiangAP]

I like the ditty that children recite:
shu, niu, hu, tu, long, she, ma, yang, hou, ji, gou, zhu
鼠, 牛, 虎, 兔, 龍, 蛇, 馬, 羊, 猴, 雞, 狗, 豬
When said very quickly, it sounds fun and you never forget it (useful when you learn Chinese).

[urofpersia]

Not very accurate. The year of dog arrives on 4 feb 2006 which is "start of spring" day (立春). But that system follows the 1st day of Chinese New Year as the new zodiac year which is totally wrong.

Can you tell us more about this? It sounds interesting.

I did a check on my own birthdate and it gave the correct lunar one.

[ukulelescott]

It is important, that you follow the lunar calendar, not the Gregorian calendar. If born in January, or February you will probably be the animal from the year before. Every year is different, because in Chinese tradition, the new year starts on the first full moon on that year. 1971, was the year of the pig, but if born in January, you would not be considered to be born under the year of the pig, but the year of the dog.

[qrasy]

Can you tell us more about this? It sounds interesting.

I did a check on my own birthdate and it gave the correct lunar one.

In making the first 4 characters (Month and Year) of Bazi (八字/eight characters) data, we don't follow the Lunar Calendar, but the Solar one (I've never seen "Chinese Solar Calendar" though), where every month start with a 气节 "solar items" which follows the sun. There are 2 气节 each solar month, one is called 月令 if I recall correctly, and the other is in the middle of the month, which I forgot the name. Since 气节 are based on Solar longitude (15° from each other, there are 24), they are almost constant on other Sun-based Calendars (that's also why 气节, like 冬至 and 大寒 falls on different lunar dates each year). The first is Li Chun 立春, usually 4 Feb, quite rarely 3 or 5 Feb (and if you use the old Julian calendar, it could be far from that ).
Actually the Chinese date, in making decisions of whether a month is 闰月 or not, uses the 气节, making the "Lunar" calendar actually "Lunisolar". (we add months, not substract them since 12 moon revolution around earth is less than 1 year). And that makes the 月令 气节 not drift too much from 初一, and the 中气 not too much from 十五 (I believe the differences never reach 3 weeks).
If I recall correctly, the rule for 闰月 is like this:
Without the addition, the lunar months arrives quicker and quicker each year, then after some times the middle of the solar month would not be in the corresponding lunar month... So an extra month is added in order to include it.
Year 2033 has a rare situation: leap "11th" month 闰十一月, seems that 冬至 (11th "midterm", usually 22 December) fall on the 1st date of the extra month.
EDIT: http://www.math.nus....ndar/ichsea.pdf ?
"It also follows that Chinese New Year is the third new moon after the December solstice in 2034."

It is important, that you follow the lunar calendar, not the Gregorian calendar. If born in January, or February you will probably be the animal from the year before. Every year is different, because in Chinese tradition, the new year starts on the first full moon on that year. 1971, was the year of the pig, but if born in January, you would not be considered to be born under the year of the pig, but the year of the dog.

First Full Moon? Are you sure? Isn't the first date (正月初一) on date 1 (new moon) while full moon is around 15 in Chinese date?

Edited by qrasy, 20 January 2006 - 09:05 PM.

[fcharton]

First Full Moon? Are you sure? Isn't the first date (正月初一) on date 1 (new moon) while full moon is around 15 in Chinese date?

If I remember correctly, the chinese new year falls on the second new moon after the solar winter solstice (21st or 22nd of December).

There is a very old system which considers the first (lunar) month (子月) the lunar month which includes the solar winter solstice (ie in the end of november or december). Tradition has it that under the Xia, the year started (正月初一) on the beginning of the third month (寅月). This was changed to the second month (丑月) under the Shang, and the first month (子月) under the Zhou. In 104 BC, the Han adopted the Xia system back again, and it still is the case now.

Once the first month is determined for this year and next year, the number of month (12 or 12+one additional) is easily determined.

Note that these differences in calendar are of some importance whe studying historical texts, the "second month" not having the same meaning from one year to the other. Actually, the Chunqiu sometimes make a distinction between 'the royal calendar' and the local calendar of Lu (which started on a different month).

Finally, there is some debate on the meaning of seasons, some old texts seem to consider that spring is the three first years of the calendar (and so on), which means that "Zhou spring" could have actually been winter by our modern reckoning...

Francois

[Lin Duanwen]

Can you tell us more about this? It sounds interesting.

I did a check on my own birthdate and it gave the correct lunar one.

The new zodiac year begins on the day of "Lichun" (立春) and not the 1st day (正月初一) of lunar calendar. "Lichun" usually falls on the 12th month or the 1st month of the lunar calender. Only those who are born in January and February are affected, they have to see whether they are born before or after the day of "Lichun". Those who are born in other months are very sure about their zodiac year.

The year that there is no "Lichun" is known as "blind year" (盲年). FYI, next year "Lichun" is on 4 Feb 2006 which means the year of Dog starts on the 7th day of 1st month (正月初七) of lunar calender.

[qrasy]

If I remember correctly, the chinese new year falls on the second new moon after the solar winter solstice (21st or 22nd of December).

Yes, and for that I think to ensure that we need "闰月".
(but by the way the previous point is that it's "new moon", not "full moon").

There is a very old system which considers the first (lunar) month (子月) the lunar month which includes the solar winter solstice (ie in the end of november or december). Tradition has it that under the Xia, the year started (正月初一) on the beginning of the third month (寅月). This was changed to the second month (丑月) under the Shang, and the first month (子月) under the Zhou. In 104 BC, the Han adopted the Xia system back again, and it still is the case now.

Yes, I've heard something like "base-month" shift. Even January was not the first Month, but March. September derives from "Septem" (7), and so on until December ("10th Month").

Once the first month is determined for this year and next year, the number of month (12 or 12+one additional) is easily determined.

Yes, but to find which one is 闰月 needs more detail.

Note that these differences in calendar are of some importance whe studying historical texts, the "second month" not having the same meaning from one year to the other. Actually, the Chunqiu sometimes make a distinction between 'the royal calendar' and the local calendar of Lu (which started on a different month).

Finally, there is some debate on the meaning of seasons, some old texts seem to consider that spring is the three first years of the calendar (and so on), which means that "Zhou spring" could have actually been winter by our modern reckoning...

You meant "first three months"?? Actually having 寅月 as the "first month" is like human shift in order to make the 春分 (Spring Equinox) really in the middle of first 3 months.

The new zodiac year begins on the day of "Lichun" (立春) and not the 1st day (正月初一) of lunar calendar. "Lichun" usually falls on the 12th month or the 1st month of the lunar calender.

Almost definite, I'd say, because of adding 闰月 to non-12th Lunar months and the difference of Solar and Lunar Months would never reach 1 month. If it 闰十二月 is added , Lichun would fall in it (around day 15).

Only those who are born in January and February are affected, they have to see whether they are born before or after the day of "Lichun". Those who are born in other months are very sure about their zodiac year.

Yes, even if the system was lunar the year for the other months were already very clear. But the problem would be if a person is born on the day of Lichun.
Lichun usually have the time counted, and people can be born before the ours.
For example if a person is born on 2am, but the exact time of LiChun is on 5am, then how should he be counted?

The year that there is no "Lichun" is known as "blind year" (盲年). FYI, next year "Lichun" is on 4 Feb 2006 which means the year of Dog starts on the 7th day of 1st month (正月初七) of lunar calender.

Interesting... I remember that 1985 is a 盲年. (a person on mid February of this year got the "fake rat sign")
What would happen (even only in myth) ??
{EDIT: seems wrong, since the lunar year has Lichun, but late in Lunar Month 12}

Edited by qrasy, 24 March 2006 - 08:13 AM.

[Lin Duanwen]

For example if a person is born on 2am, but the exact time of LiChun is on 5am, then how should he be counted?
Interesting... I remember that 1985 is a 盲年. (a person on mid February of this year got the "fake rat sign")
What would happen (even only in myth) ??

If a person is born on 2am, then he is considered born in the current year. The person that born exactly on 5am or after will be considered born in the next zodiac year.

Some people think that it is very unlucky to marry in "blind year" (盲年), that's called superstition.

[qrasy]

If a person is born on 2am, then he is considered born in the current year. The person that born exactly on 5am or after will be considered born in the next zodiac year.

Does it become discrete at the level of hours? Like, if Lichun is in Wei time everyone in Wei will be considered the new year? Or if the birth in Wei but slightly earlier than the Lichun it would be considered different? (note every place has slightly different "solar time" of Lichun)

Some people think that it is very unlucky to marry in "blind year" (盲年), that's called superstition.

How about the year which have 闰四月 or something like that?

Edited by qrasy, 20 January 2006 - 09:06 PM.

[RouLiuRen]

This is something i'm really interested in, although i'm trying to learn about it by myself which isn't always easy lol. I'm confused though..by the Lunar calender,..I was born in 1985,making me an Ox,..but by a Western calender I was born in 1986, making me a Tiger..does that matter at all? And has anyone heard of the elements also involved in the zodiac, like metal, earth,fire, water and wood?

[qrasy]

I'm confused though..by the Lunar calender,..I was born in 1985,making me an Ox,..but by a Western calender I was born in 1986, making me a Tiger..does that matter at all?

Never follow Western Calendar.
(Isn't it clear? It's Chinese animal Zodiacs)

And has anyone heard of the elements also involved in the zodiac, like metal, earth,fire, water and wood?

Certainly. It follows a cycle of 60 years, and determined by the 10-cycle TianGan (天干 Heavenly Stems: 甲乙丙丁戊己庚辛壬癸)

Edited by qrasy, 24 March 2006 - 08:17 AM.

[ustiger]

I just check the site and it has a zodiac match compatibility table now. http://www.bizchinat...diac_compat.php