67 replies to this topic

[浪淘音]

I hope you are not anti-Christian

what would do if i was? not that i am since my girlfriend believes in that stuff. But for the sake of my love of conflict, i'm totally against anything you stand for. I have done many horrible things in the name of movements i don't believe in simply because you believe in them

it IS hypocritical for a Han supremacist to be Christian. Haanen.com opposes anything non-Han. your argument that christianity has existed (in extremely small numbers) in China is irrelevant. i could easily argue that Inner Asian nomads have existed within China's borders for centuries but Haanen.com as we know, isn't too keen on them.

hell, i've read posts on there where they said Northerners were Han Jian for "Submitting" to nomad rule

I'm a libertarian, i don't care what anyone does or believes in and neither should you. so unless i'm burning down churches and beating up Chinese christians (which i could do since i'm a big guy), you shouldn't care if i was "anti christian" (which i'm not)

[somechineseperson]

what would do if i was? not that i am since my girlfriend believes in that stuff. But for the sake of my love of conflict, i'm totally against anything you stand for. I have done many horrible things in the name of movements i don't believe in simply because you believe in them

That is just so irrational.

it IS hypocritical for a Han supremacist to be Christian. Haanen.com opposes anything non-Han. your argument that christianity has existed (in extremely small numbers) in China is irrelevant. i could easily argue that Inner Asian nomads have existed within China's borders for centuries but Haanen.com as we know, isn't too keen on them.

hell, i've read posts on there where they said Northerners were Han Jian for "Submitting" to nomad rule

Yes, Haanen is often too extreme. Many people there are not doing a good job representing Han nationalism. It is impossible, perhaps, to be both a Han supremacist and a Christian, but it is certainly not impossible for one to be both a Han nationalist and a Christian. There are many people who are both. One good example from history would be Dr. Sun Yat-sen. Han nationalism is certainly NOT the same as Han supremacism.

I don't go to Hannen anymore. Too many fanatics there.

I'm a libertarian, i don't care what anyone does or believes in and neither should you.

So stop trying to convince me to be a libertarian. It is a libertarian attitude to "not care what anyone does or believes in", since you don't care what people believe in, stop trying to convince me to believe in what you believe in.

Edited by somechineseperson, 22 January 2006 - 04:18 PM.

[浪淘音]

the problems with Han nationalism are compounded by the fact the modern nation-state of China (PRC) inherited its boundaries from the old empire (Qing specifically) which was a multi ethnic empire so the nation-state of the PRC is simply not a "Han Nation" (unless we give up the western portions of the PRC and most likely inner mongolia to)

so a more correct term for "Han Nationalism" would be Pan Sinoism.

anyway, somechineseperson. i wasn't trying to force you to believe in anything specific. i just feel bad for alot of Chinese americans who have an extremely politically correct view of life and are offended easily yet are powerless to do anything about it.

who do you love more? Tang Taizong or Jesus H. Christ (just kidding)

[TaiE]

What is Han chauvinsitic?
I'd like to share some of my observations.

Only till recently, about 5 or 6 years. It has a formal name. Some of my friends claims to be, some of them even established their own website(forum) advertising it. But the basic figure of those people whom I know in life, they are obvious of highly inferority-complex.

That I once doubt the origin of the Han-chauvinism, I suspect there are some possibilities:

1. Just to release pressure on the web barking around (social)
Those might be variable reasons.

2. For the economical interest , you know, many people now are selling the ancient style clothes( they call it Han-fu), so it is better to be binded with the Han-nationlism, a "good " marketing strategy. 没良心到了极点.

3. Some organisation hidden behind manuplating. (political)
a famous saying :" Before kill the guy, you'd better drive him mad first."
Ultra-Nationalism against ultra-nationlism of another country( it might be positive and form balance)
Ultra-Nationalism(racism) exists inside between different ethnics, well, it is suspecious, not even mention such kind of theory had never appeared before.


But the most important aspect wiped off:

cultural reasons: evidences could make one can't believe, that most of those Han-nationalist don't even know what the tradtional culture is, they are good at pick out contents but not grasping the core-spirit of classic works. Merely draw the racism out from culture, for racism is like drugs ,could bring some shortly high.

Edited by TaiE, 22 January 2006 - 04:23 PM.

[Borjigin Ayurbarwada]

it IS hypocritical for a Han supremacist to be Christian. Haanen.com opposes anything non-Han. your argument that christianity has existed (in extremely small numbers) in China is irrelevant. i could easily argue that Inner Asian nomads have existed within China's borders for centuries but Haanen.com as we know, isn't too keen on them.
(which i'm not)

Doesn't surprise me, typical overseas han ideal, Han nationalism, Christianity, and west european culture. These people aren't even Chinese, so what they say is really irrelevant to what the people in mainland thinks. The fact is, there has never been a Han nation in ancient times, no matter what they want to think.

Ironic how they claim Northerners as Han Jian when they are submittimg to cultural imperialism under the disguise of nationalism.

[somechineseperson]

Doesn't surprise me, typical overseas han ideal, Han nationalism, Christianity, and west european culture. These people aren't even Chinese, so what they say is really irrelevant to what the people in mainland thinks. The fact is, there has never been a Han nation in ancient times, no matter what they want to think.

Ironic how they claim Northerners as Han Jian when they are submittimg to cultural imperialism under the disguise of nationalism.

You don't have the authority to decide who is Chinese and who is not.

Most Han nationalists are in fact from the mainland.

The Han nation is no more of a "construct" than any other nation in the world.

Absorbing contents from other cultures is certainly not "cultural imperialism". In fact, strictly speaking there is no such thing as the so-called "cultural imperialism", it's just another ridiculous left-over ideology from the darkest times of the Manchu age, when everything "foreign" was viewed with suspicion, including foreign-built railways.

China needs the confident and open spirit of the Tang age, not the close-minded ignorant anti-western views of the Manchu Qing.

What's wrong with importing certain things from the West anyway, China needs this in order to be able to rise again. If one cannot see this, then one is no better than those blind ignorant Boxer rebels.

[somechineseperson]

But the most important aspect wiped off:

cultural reasons: evidences could make one can't believe, that most of those Han-nationalist don't even know what the tradtional culture is, they are good at pick out contents but not grasping the core-spirit of classic works. Merely draw the racism out from culture, for racism is like drugs ,could bring some shortly high.

帝谓文王：不识不知，顺帝之则。-《诗经》

上帝告诫周文王：不要轻易论断不知道的事情，要顺从上帝的法则。

Shangdi (God) told King Wen of Zhou: Do not judge what you don't understand, always follow my laws.

- From the Book of Songs

What makes you think you know about the "core-spirit" of traditional Chinese culture? Don't be so hasty to judge others. Chinese culture is very complex and multi-faceted. (Which is a good thing) It is quite difficult to specify a single "core-spirit". I agree with you that essentially many Han nationalists are not real nationalists but just racial supremacists, but not every Han nationalist is like that. There are also many who are quite knowledgable about Chinese culture.

Do not equate criticising certain elements of other ethnic groups with racism. The criticism is based on cultural standards, not racial ones.

[General_Zhaoyun]

Alright.. I'm closing this topic. The vote: 16:16 (half-half). Since there is no majority support on banning han-chauvanistic topics, such topic will not be banned.