35 replies to this topic

[Alexander39]

what is fks?

Sorry.. fks is shorthand for For eksample as in *To take an eksample*

[somechineseperson]

It is probably the great numbers of Chinese characters that inhibitet the development of more advanced forms of printing involving metal among other things,and indirectly also new ideas.
While chinese characters is great for conserving knowledge throu the ages, they are lousy when it comes mass producktion techniques in a time when something new is developed continiusly fks a renassance, simply becourse it is so very difficult compared to romanized alphabets fks, to keep on developing something new in expression and typing.
Gutenbergs development indirectly insured European supremacy since ideas suddenly easily, fast and CHEAP could cross the various borders, to the benefit (And ruin) of many that would not have had that chance before.

I disagree with your idea that the form of the Chinese written language inhibits the development of new ideas and new expressions. In fact, Chinese concepts are generally more fluidic and therefore more conducive to the development of new ideas than European languages are. Do not base everything on the development of a single technique. IMO the philosophical side of culture matters more in long-term development than technology.

[Kediren]

I disagree with your idea that the form of the Chinese written language inhibits the development of new ideas and new expressions. In fact, Chinese concepts are generally more fluidic and therefore more conducive to the development of new ideas than European languages are. Do not base everything on the development of a single technique. IMO the philosophical side of culture matters more in long-term development than technology.

In fact, Chinese concepts are generally more fluidic and therefore more conducive to the development of new ideas than European languages are.

sorry but it is only your subjektive dream..!

you make something what do not exist..

1: all languageses are good for transfer of new ideas..
2: Old Chinese alphabet is more komplikate as european. Therefore you need more Money and Time for learn it.. That was one of many problems why chinese books was populate only under rich people.. (And why China do have now a "simplified" Alphabet system)

Edited by Kediren, 19 January 2006 - 01:37 PM.

[naruwan]

Han inventor 畢昇 invented the movable print in Song dynasty. He had a circular rotation disk to organize all his print blocks.

[urofpersia]

I disagree with your idea that the form of the Chinese written language inhibits the development of new ideas and new expressions.

I don't think that is what Alexander39 (shouldn't it be like 40/41 now? ) meant. He only meant with the movable type print books can now be mass produced efficiently and cost effectively and thus new ideas can spread more rapidly.

In fact, Chinese concepts are generally more fluidic and therefore more conducive to the development of new ideas than European languages are. Do not base everything on the development of a single technique. IMO the philosophical side of culture matters more in long-term development than technology.

Rather I think it is you who is adopting a more chauvinistic attitude.

[fcharton]

Han inventor 畢昇 invented the movable print in Song dynasty. He had a circular rotation disk to organize all his print blocks.

I think the main problem comes from the construction of movable types. In western languages you need say 100 different characters (with many copies of each). So the number of moulds needed to cast these types is small, types can readily be produced in large quantities and at low cost. Besides, a printer doesn't need a lot of blocks to be able to print anything.

In chinese, you need at least one block per character (more for the most common), so any printer needs to have several thousands different blocks to type a given book. This is both costly to produce and to handle (and certainly slower to use).

Francois

[Tibet Libre]

Gutenberg gets the global credit for starting off the age of the printed book not because he was the first but because his invention had the biggest impact.

If some wonder if he deserves the credit, then take into consideration that he invented in a single move what took in the East four centuries and many intermediate steps: Printing not with blocks, but with moveable letters, not out of clay, but out of metal, on a printing machine which came to be the arch type of modern printing machines. All from the scratch in about 10 years time.

[Borjigin Ayurbarwada]

movable metal printing press already exist for the Yi dynasty of korea before Gutenurg. Gutenburg didn't invent printing out of a "single move", he had other models to consult just the same.

[raider]

movable metal printing press already exist for the Yi dynasty of korea before Gutenurg. Gutenburg didn't invent printing out of a "single move", he had other models to consult just the same.

glad someone got their history right. The first movable metal printing press dates back to Koryo era. It was proven in 1973 'International book year' when the first book made by metal printing press was revealed! (the book is '白雲和尙抄 錄佛祖直指心體要節') Shame that it is still kept in France though. d**** the west imperialist

[Tibet Libre]

movable metal printing press already exist for the Yi dynasty of korea before Gutenurg. Gutenburg didn't invent printing out of a "single move", he had other models to consult just the same.

Which models? There were none, other than the example of block printing which was known then in Europe, too, and which may have inspired him.

Gutenberg technique to create the metal letters was more sophisticated than the more awkward Korean, and thats also why his invention immediately stuck and the prior Korean didnt.

Edited by Tibet Libre, 03 March 2006 - 04:02 PM.

[Yun]

The Koreans argue that while Bi Sheng of the Chinese Song dynasty invented movable type using small clay blocks, they were the first to use metal blocks for movable type, in around 1234.

But Gutenburg did not know about the Chinese or Korean inventions, as far as we know.

[Borjigin Ayurbarwada]

Which models? There were none, other than the example of block printing which was known then in Europe, too, and which may have inspired him.

Gutenberg technique to create the metal letters was more sophisticated than the more awkward Korean, and thats also why his invention immediately stuck and the prior Korean didnt.

Printing press of a variety of forms already exist prior to Gutenburg in Europe, he didn't just invent the movable metal type from "a single move". The printing press's usage has much more to do with the language in question than the technology themselves.

[Tibet Libre]

Printing press of a variety of forms already exist prior to Gutenburg in Europe...

...which were? The Romans already had a wine press, but you can hardly mean that, can you?

Gutenberg's way of printing remained btw the standard printing technique until the 20th century. That's also a reason why he deserves the credit.

Edited by Tibet Libre, 17 March 2006 - 10:38 AM.

[Borjigin Ayurbarwada]

""""...which were? The Romans already had a wine press, but you can hardly mean that, can you?

Gutenberg's way of printing remained btw the standard printing technique until the 20th century. That's also a reason why he deserves the credit."""""


Europeans were using xylography (engraving on wood, block printing) to produce books and patterns on fabric as early as the late 14th century. Laurens Janszoon Coster of Haarlem might also be before Gutenburg. Its a debate, yet where these people got their invention from is itself a mystery.