Taken from:
http://www.sizes.com.../CHRNRyukyu.htm

Map of Okinawa (Ryukyu Islands)


Ryukyu Islands Dynasties

*Note: Wiki states that the Ryukyu kingdom was established in 1429. It seems that there is a general confusion of the dates of the Ryukyu kingdom.

Reign Dates Name Comments

Shunten Dynasty
1187–1237 Shunten
1238–1248 Shunba Junki
1249–1259 Gihon

Eiso Dynasty
1260–1299 Eiso
1300–1308 Taisei
1309–1313 Eiji
1314–1336 Tamagusuku
1337–1349 Sei-i

Satto Dynasty
1350–1395 Satto Rules kingdom of Chuzan.
1396–1405 Bunei

Shō Shishō Dynasty
1406–1421 Shō Shishō Takes title of king.
1422–1439 Shō Hashi
1416: defeat of kingdom of Hokuzan.
1429: defeat of kingdom of Nanzan, uniting all Okinawa
1440–1444 Shō Chū
1445–1449 Shō Shitatsu
1450–1453 Shō Kinpuku
1454–1460 Shō Taikyū
1461–1469 Shō Toku

Shō En Dynasty
1470–1476 Shō En Kanemaru Uchima overthrows first Shō dynasty, takes title of Shō En.
1477 Shō Sen-i
1477–1526 Shō Shin Islands of Miyako and Yaeyama added to kingdom.
1527–1555 Shō Sei
1556–1572 Shō Gen
1573–1588 Shō Ei
1589–1620 Shō Nei 1609: Satsuma Clan from Japan invades, conquers

Ryukyu Kingdom.
1621–1640 Shō Hō
1641–1647 Shō Ken
1648–1668 Shō Shitsu
1669–1709 Shō Tei
1710–1712 Shō Eki
1713–1751 Shō Kei
1752–1794 Shō Boku
1795–1802 Shō On
1803 Shō Sei
1804–1828 Shō Kō
1829–1847 Shō Iku
1848–1879 Shō Tai

1872: Japan abolishes Kingdom of Ryukyus, establishes Ryukyu Han.

1879, Japan abolishes Ryukyu Han and makes Okinawa a prefecture.

Here's a brief history from:

http://en.wikipedia..../Ryukyu_Kingdom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okinawa

Ryukyu Kingdom
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

The main building of Shuri Castle



Ryukyu Kingdom was an independent kingdom which ruled the Ryukyu Islands from the 14th century to the 19th century. (Note by Gubuk Janggoon: At the bottom where there is a timeline of events in Okinawin history, it is stated that the Ryukyu kingdom was born in 1429, in the 15th century. There seems to be some confusion with the dates.) The King of Ryukyu unified Okinawa Island and extended its rule over the Amami Islands in modern Kagoshima Prefecture and the Yaeyama Islands near to Taiwan. Diplomatically the kingdom established tributary relations with the Middle Kingdom, during its Ming and Qing Dynasties, and developed trade relations with Japan, Korea and many Southeast Asian countries, including Siam, Pattani, Malacca, Champa, Hue, and Java. In 1609, the kingdom fell to an expeditionary force from Kagoshima. As Ming China prohibitted trade with Japanese, Lord of Satsuma utilized the kingdom as a dummy for profitable trades with China. King of Ryukyu also sent diplomatic missions to Edo, capital of feudal Japan. The modern Japanese government abolished the kingdom of Ryukyu and established the prefecture of Okinawa in 1879. Qing China made some diplomatic protests to the Japanese government in vain.

Following the end of World War II and the Battle of Okinawa in 1945, for 27 years Okinawa was under US administration. During this time, Okinawa's currency was the US dollar, and the US military established numerous bases on Okinawa Honto and elsewhere.

On May 15, 1972, Okinawa once again became part of Japan, although to this day the US maintains a large military presence there: more than 50,000 US military personnel and dependents, including 17,600 Marines, are still based there. Whilst they provide a source of revenue for the island's 1.3 million residents they are also a source of considerable tension.

Major events[/b]

* 1372 The first Ming envoy visited Okinawa which was divided into Three Mountains ( principalities ). The beginning of the formal tributary relations with the Chinese Empire.
* 1416 The Middle Mountain ( Chuzan ) occuppied Nakijin Gusuku, capital of the Northern Mountain ( Hokuzan ).
* 1429 The Middle Mountain occupied Shimajiri Osato Gusuku, capital of the Southern Mountain ( Nanzan ), unifying the Okinawa Island. The Kingdom of Ryukyu was established with the capital at Shuri Castle in modern Naha.
* 1477 The third king, Sho Shin, ascended the throne. Golden age of the kingdom.
* 1609 Lord of Satsuma in Southern Kyushu conquered the kingdom. King of Ryukyu paid homage to him.
* 1624 Lord of Satsuma annexed the Amami Islands.
* 1853 Commodore Matthew Perry of the US Navy visited the kingdom.
* 1866 The last official mission from the Qing Empire visited the kingdom.
* 1874 The last tributary envoy to the Middle Kingdom was dispatched from Port Naha.
* 1879 Japan annexed the kingdom of Ryukyu. The last king of Ryukyu moved to live in Tokyo as peerage of Japan.



*Note: Interesting to note that Japan seems to have experienced a 3 kingdoms (Principalites) period, much like China and Korea.

It seems like all the Ryukyu names sound identical to Japanese. Do the people of Ryukyu have their own language or is it because they were conquered by Japan so their names were Japanized?

Kulong, on Feb 2 2005, 01:43 AM, said:

I think they were Japanized...

The Ryukyuans speak their own language...although it is on the decline.

From:

http://en.wikipedia....kyuan_languages


Ryukyuan languages
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

The Ryukyuan languages are spoken in the Ryukyu islands and make up a subfamily of the Japonic family. Some disagree as to how these languages should be divided; there is however a general consensus among Ryukyuanists that there are 6 different languages.

* Amami Spoken: islands of the Amami district, Standard: Naze, Speakers: 130000
* Miyako (Miyako: myaaku hutsi) Spoken: islands of the Miyako district, Standard: Hirara, Speakers: 55783
* Okinawan (Okinawan: ucinaaguci) Spoken: southern and central districts of the Okinawan mainland and the surrounding minor islands, Standard: traditionally Shuri, modern Naha, Speakers: 900000
* Kunigami Spoken: the Yanbaru district of the Okinawan mainland as well as the surrounding minor islands, Standard: Kunigami, Speakers: ???
* Yaeyama (Yaeyama: yaima munii) Spoken: islands of the Yaeyama district, Standard: Ishigaki, Speakers: 44650
* Yonaguni Spoken: Yonaguni island in the Yaeyama district, Standard: Yonaguni, Speakers: 1800

In many cases, speakers of the Amami, Miyako, Yaeyama, or Yonaguni languages will also know Okinawan. Many Yonaguni speakers also know Yaeyama. Since Amami, Miyako, Yaeyama, and Yonaguni are less urbanised than the Okinawan mainland, their languages are not declining as quickly as that of Okinawa proper, and children continue to be brought up in these languages. The proportion of adults to children in speakers of Okinawan is much more uneven than with the other languages: it is quickly losing ground as a native language, while the other Ryukyuan languages, although they are losing ground, are slipping only gradually.

Since the beginning of WWII, most Mainland Japanese and even many Ryukyuans have regarded the Ryukyuan languages as a dialect/a group of dialects of Japanese. However, it should be noted that during WWII, Korean, Palauan, and a couple of other languages were considered dialects of Japanese, which they are most certainly not by any measurement. (today only some elderly Japanese and radical nationalists believe Korean to be a Japanese dialect.) With Ryukyuan languages, the distinction is not quite as clear as it is for former "dialects" such as Korean and Palauan. Before the annexation of the Ryukyuan Kingdom to Japan in the late 1800s, nobody would question the status of Ryukyuan languages as independent from Japanese. They differ more in vocabulary and grammar than do English and German. Other Ryukyuan languages such as Miyako, Yaeyama, and Yonaguni are even further from Tokyo Japanese.

Nowadays, there are a little over 1 million native speakers of Ryukyuan languages left, but many of them are elderly (some of them extremely so, due to the Ryukyuan tendency to live past 90). There are still some children learning Ryukyuan languages natively, but this is rare on mainland Okinawa and usually only happens when children live with grandparents. Native speakers of Okinawan under 20 are rare.

Taken from:
http://en.wikipedia....tory_of_Okinawa




Ryukyuan history
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
(Redirected from History of Okinawa)


Before 1945

Large parts of this history come from George Feifer's history of the Battle of Okinawa (references).

When Commodore Perry visited Okinawa in 1854, he noted:

It would be difficult for you to imagine the beauties of this island with respect to the charming scenery and the marvelous perfection of cultivation.

The source of modern-day Okinawans is disputed. Evidence suggests the island was never part of formal Japanese territory until annexation in 1872, although the Kingdom of the Ryūkyūs had been subjugated by the Shimazu clan, lords of southern Kyūshū, as early as 1609, and the Okinawans also paid tribute to the Manchu rulers of the Qing Dynasty of China. The earliest inhabitants were likely descended from crossovers via a prehistoric land bridge from modern-day China, with a later mixture of Malaysians, Micronesians, and Japanese. Others, however, basing their claims mostly on evidence from studies of physical anthropology, and more recently also genetics, take the view that the modern Okinawans are the most pure descendants of the prehistoric inhabitants of the Japanese islands (Japanese: Jōmon-jin 縄文人 "People of the Jōmon Era"). Scientists of this persuasion explain that the Hondo ("Mainland") Japanese are rather a complex mix of the prehistoric Japanese aborigines with immigrants who originated in the ancestral populations of various continental Asian peoples, especially those who came from what are now Korea, Siberia and China.

Early Chinese visitors noted the hospitality of Okinawa's islanders, and its brutal poverty. Pressed between two powerful neighbors — China and Japan — it suited them well to be hospitable. After the European explorers of the 19th century, they entertained the Dutch, the Portuguese, the English, and others, who always noted the hospitality of the natives.

The Okinawan language seems to be a Japonic language, having mutually split with the Japanese language long ago. The comparative method, a linguistic method for scientifically comparing languages and reconstructing a hypothetical "ancestor language" from which the present-day languages evolved, has proven beyond a doubt that the languages of the Ryūkyū Archipelago, including Okinawan, are genetically related to the Japanese language. The Ryūkyūan languages may all be grouped together to form one of the main branches of the Japonic language family; the other main branch is comprised of the various Japanese dialects.

The dominant economy was farming of sugar cane, and later on, the sweet potato, without which far more Okinawans would have died in the 1945 battle. Other farmed items include guava, banana, papaya, and tobacco.

In the fifteenth and sixtenth century, Okinawans traded from Java to Japan, to China and Korea. This led to an increased level of prosperity for the kingdom.

At about the end of the sixteenth century, Japanese feudal leader Toyotomi Hideyoshi ordered the Ryūkyū Kingdom to give men and arms for a Chinese invasion. Ryūkyūans generally opposed military adventures; there is a widespread (although suspect) story that during the massive (although unsuccessful) Mongol invasions of Japan in the 13th century, that the Okinawans refused to help the Mongols, being later ravaged by them. Nor did they wish to ruin their Korean trade. The Japanese planned their attack via the Korean peninsula. The Ryūkyū Kingdom did not wish to offend China, for they had strong trade and cultural ties. The attack on China went without the help of the Ryūkyū Kingdom, and Hideyoshi meanwhile died. There was a ferocious battle of succession. The Shimazu family of Kyūshū Island won — the Satsuma clan, the Ryūkyūans' nearest Japanese neighbors.

The Shimazu clan wanted Okinawa's trade, and wanted favor with the regime in Edo (modern-day Tōkyō), and the Ryūkyūans had not paid respects to the new regime in Kyūshū. Permission to invade the kingdom was granted by the rulers in Edo.

The Okinawan invasion was in 1609. Three thousand men and more than one hundred war junks sailed from Kagoshima at the southern tip of Kyūshū. The Ryūkyūans were nearly weaponless. Many priceless cultural treasures were taken to Kagoshima.

The Satsuma rulers never permitted Ryūkyūans to own arms, leading to Okinawa's most famous contribution to world culture — karate (below).

The Satsumas enacted crippling taxes, taking over the trade of the Kingdom after the sealing of Japan from the rest of the world in 1636 so as to gain an economic advantage. Often, Ryūkyūans weren't allowed to eat the very fish they caught.

After Perry's "black ships" came by, the Meiji Restoration proceeded after the Meiji Emperor attained the throne in 1867. The Kingdom was formally annexed to Japan in 1879, the monarchy in Shuri Castle abolished.

The Japanese government promoted Japanese-language education in the school system to render the islanders Japanese citizens. By 1939 there was compulsory military training.

As a side note, the mongoose was introduced from India in 1910 to control the poisonous habu snake.


The Crucial Year: 1945

The year 1945 was defined by the Battle of Okinawa (which see). This was one of the last major battles of World War II, claiming the lives of an estimated 120,000 people. The Ryūkyūs were the only places where there was a land battle in Japan during WWII. In addition to the Japanese military personnel who died in the Battle for Okinawa, more than one third of the civilian population, 300,000 people, died. The Okinawan victims were not only killed by bombs and shells, but also by the Japanese military.



The Princess Lilies

Another point of Okinawan tragedy was the Japanese military forcing school girls to join a group known as the Princess Lilies and go to the battle front as nurses. The Princess Lilies was an organization made up of girl students, 15 to 16 years old, who participated in the battle as nurses. There were seven girl's high schools in Okinawa at the time of WW II. The Princess Lilies were organized at two of them, and a total of 297 students and teachers joined the group and eventually served the Army as nurses. Two hundred and eleven died. Most of the girls were put into caves, which served as temporary clinics, and took care of injured soldiers. There was no medicine, food or water. Many of the young girls died while trying to get water for the wounded soldiers. The Japanese military also told these girls that if they were taken prisoner the enemy would rape and then kill them, and then gave the girls hand grenades to commit suicide with before being taken prisoner. One of the Princess Lilies explains this by saying, "We had a strict imperial education, so being taken prisoner was the same a being a traitor. We were taught to prefer suicide to becoming a captive." --(Moriguchi, 1992) Many students died saying "Tenno Banzai." which means "Long live the Emperor."

The board of education, made up entirely of mainland Japanese, required the girls' participation. Teachers opposed to the board of education, insisting the students be evacuated to somewhere safe, were accused of being traitors.

The Americans were under strict orders not to harm civilians, but there were atrocities such as the Cave of the Virgins, where many Okinawan school girls committed suicide. The schoolgirls jumped off of the cliffs for fear of being raped by the Americans. Similarly whole families committed suicide or were killed by near relatives.

The islands were occupied by the United States at the end of the war.


After 1945

This history is at the present writing still fragmentary; any knowledgeable persons would be welcomed to contribute more.

On November 21, 1969 U.S. President Richard Nixon and Japanese Prime Minister Eisaku Sato agreed in Washington, DC on the return of Okinawa to Japanese control in 1972. Representatives of Japan and the United States signed the Okinawa Reversion Agreement on June 17, 1971.[1] (http://www.niraikanai.wwma.net/pages/archive/rev71.html) Under terms of the agreement, the US retained its rights to bases on the island as part of the 1952 Treaty to protect Japan, but those bases were to be nuclear-free. The United States military still controls about 19% of the island, which makes the 30,000 American servicemen a dominant feature in island life. While the Americans provide jobs to the locals in bars and entertainment and pay rent on the land, widespread personal relationships between US servicemen and Okinawan women remains controversial in conservative Okinawan society. Okinawa remains the poorest prefecture of Japan as of this writing (August 2003).


Tension with Japan

Some Okinawans refuse to raise the Japanese flag at official events, because of the flag's perceived link to Japan's emperor, the Japanese Imperial Military, and the World War II Battle of Okinawa. The Japanese flag reminds many Okinawans of the worst aspects of Japanese imperialism.

On October of 1987, Mr. Shoichi Chibana burned the Japanese flag while it was being raised for the Kaiho National Athletic meet in Yomitan, Okinawa. This incident not only shocked Japanese, but also Ryūkyūans.

During the Battle of Okinawa, Japanese soldiers killed Okinawan civilians. One reason was due to non combatants disturbing the Japanese military in their hiding places. During the battle, people hid in the many caves on Okinawa. At first, there were only civilians, but the soldiers also took refuge in the caves after the fighting became intense. During the many fierce battles, the babies in the caves started crying. Their mothers tried to stop the crying, but the soldiers, being afraid of being found by the enemy, murdered the babies at once. This brutality was not unusual to the Okinawans. They were also killed over small amounts of food. "At midnight, soldiers would wake up Okinawans and take them to the beach. Then they chose Okinawans at random and threw hand grenades at them." (Moriguchi, 1992)

The suspicion of being a spy was another reason why Okinawans were killed. Classified World War II Japanese military documents describe punishment for Okinawans who didn't speak Japanese. They were declared spies, and killed for speaking their own language. Additionally, Japanese soldiers shot Okinawans who wanted to surrender to Allied Forces appealing to them to quit fighting. The Japanese military commanders were afraid of their subordinates losing their fighting spirit while watching civilians surrender, so they killed civilians to prevent their troops from losing morale.

During March 1945, there was an intense battle in Yaeyama Archipelago. The Japanese military forced people to evacuate from their towns to the mountains even though malaria was prevalent there. Ryūkyūans, without food and medicine, lost 54% of the island's population to starvation and disease. After WWII, the government stated that the Japanese military didn't know that malaria was prevalent in the mountains of Yaeyama. There is, however, some evidence that this was known before the evacuation of Okinawans to the mountains. The bereaved families of the malaria victims filed a lawsuit against the government for its responsibility.


Tension with the US

In 1995 two Marines and a sailor kidnapped and raped a 12 year old girl and left her for dead, and under the Status of Forces Agreement with the U.S., local police and prosecutors were unable to get access to the troops until they were able to prepare an indictment. Many locals viewed this as unfair treatment that created an undue burden on their ability to investigate the case and bring the perpetrators to justice. All three were later convicted in a Japanese court. Later revisions to the agreement were made, but many observers viewed them as cosmetic. This is not an isolated case with many crimes being reported including the alleged rape attempt by Major Michael Brown who was convicted of molestation on the 8th July 2004. Crimes committed by U.S. soldiers are an issue at many overseas U.S. bases, but Okinawan officials have complained that the high concentration of U.S. bases inflicts a special burden on them compared to mainland Japan.

Other complaints are that the military bases disrupt the lives of the Okinawan people, the bases occupy more than a fifth of the main island. The biggest and most active airforce base in east Asia is based on the island, the islanders complain that this produces large amounts of noise and is dangerous in other ways. In 1959 a jet fighter crashed into a school on the island killing 17 children and injuring 121. In 2004 a US military helicopter crashed into a college on the island, injuring the three crew members on board. The US military prevented the local police from participating in the investigation of the crash.

Whilst the bases do provide revenue it is claimed that they are holding the island's development back. Base related revenue makes up 5 percent of the total economy. If the US vacated the land it is claimed that the island would be able to generate more money from tourism by the increased land that they would be able to develop.

Kulong, on Feb 2 2005, 01:43 AM, said:

It's their own language but it's still part of the Japanese family, kind of like Portuguese and Spanish.

There are alot of Okinawans where I live and this is what I found out. They seem to have last names that sound/look Japanese, but people in Japan would never use them, thus it is easy to tell who is Okinawan by their name. For example

anything ending in -Shiro
i.e Yamashiro, Miyashiro, etc

as well as the following
Uehara/Uyehara
Arakaki
Higa
Yamamoto
Amuro
Fukunaga

These family names are almost never used by some one of pure Japanese descent. So if you see some one with that last name, they are most likely have Okinawan ancestry like some famous Japanese singers Namie Amuro and Takako Uehara.

Karakhan, on Feb 3 2005, 12:24 AM, said:

Never used by 'Japanese' families?

This is from http://www.scienceda...ily_names#Japan

1.(佐藤) Sato
2.(鈴木) Suzuki
3.(高橋) Takahashi
4.(田中) Tanaka
5.(渡辺) Watanabe
6.(伊藤) Ito
7.(山本) Yamamoto
8.(中村) Nakamura
9.(小林) Kobayashi
10.(斎藤) Saito

I can't recall how many people I worked with called Yamamoto, with most of them from the Kanto region.

When I was in Japan watching Japanese TV, there was this travel show, with a really cute girl originally from OKinawa. And they visited the Pyrimid when she said in the OKinawa language Ryukyuan the sun is "xxxxx". So eventhough people rarely use it anymore, some words are still known to the new generations.

Quote

caocao74, on Feb 2 2005, 03:35 PM, said:

Sorry I meant to write Yamashiro, not Yamamoto. The examples you gave are allJapanese names. All the other examples such as Higa, Uehara, etc is virtually exclusive to Okinawans.

read this site

http://www.city.itom...April/April.htm

Could somebody comment on the disrepency of the dynasty dates? My first source says the Ryukyu kingdom was founded in 1621 while wiki states that it was founded in the 14th cent. When was it?

caocao74, on Feb 2 2005, 07:35 AM, said:

Curious..some of the pronounciations don't seem to match up with the characters. For instance, I'm sure the character 高 is pronounced Go, but 高橋 is pronounced Takahashi....The same with 中村 being Nakamura. Isn't 中 pronounced Chu?

Gubuk Janggoon, on Feb 12 2005, 01:30 AM, said:

Japanese names follow different rules when it comes to pronounciation. The pronounciations you are referring to are the sinicized pronounciations, i forgot the term for it. (go-on or something?) with many names and surnames they may use the japanese pronounciation for the kanji... (there are numerous readings for a single kanji in japanese) somebody with more knowledge on this subject can probably comment on this further.

tongyan, on Feb 13 2005, 09:07 AM, said:

Quite right. Basically, a single character generally represents an 'on' and 'kun' reading (or more than one 'on' or 'kun' reading) (although some only represent one of the readings).
The character 高 can either be representative of KOU/GOU or TAKA, while 中 can be either CHUU or NAKA.

Wow...learning Kanji must be very confusing then...

Gubuk Janggoon, on Feb 14 2005, 01:06 AM, said:

You get used to it, and many dictionaries use what is called Furigana, which is small hiragana script placed over the Kanji to show the correct pronunciation. It doesn't make it easy but it makes it easier.

You look at the Okinawan music, food and clothing and see there are very obvious Chinese influences. It is said that Japanese karate came from this island courtesy of Fujianese immigrants teaching them kungfu. Many Okinawans have some degree of Chinese mixture in them. Maybe that is why mainland Japanese have always discriminated against them?

I heard that during the Ming Dynasty, Okinawa and the Ryukyu islands were conquered. Wouldn't China have a legitimate claim to these islands as well?

Nope.

The Ryukyu kingdom was a tributary.

No, Okinawa was a independent kingdom who paid tribute to the Chinese. The Okinawans are somewhat different from the "mainland" Japanese, because they look more southern (the Okinawan natives are related to Austronesian-speaking people).

This is what Okinawans look like:





>> http://images.google...ages?q=okinawan <<

^They look Taiwanese

I forgot to reply to this:

kaixin, on May 22 2005, 12:54 AM, said:

This is true, even though I'm not sure if they learned it from Fujianese immigrants. I think it's more likely Okinawans came to China and learned it, since they were a tributary kingdom.

Interestingly, "Karate" is still called 唐手 (Tangshau) by the Okinawans. The Japanese stopped using that term a long time ago.

They probably changed it to a more "Japanese" name for nationalistic reasons.

As for Ryukyu, consider it similar to Hawaii.

Isn't it ironic that Japanese and Koreans had also once referred to Chinese as "Tang?"

kaixin, on May 21 2005, 10:13 PM, said:

Isn't it ironic that there used to be a Tang dynasty in China?

What's your point?

kaixin, on May 22 2005, 02:13 AM, said:

No, not ironic. Some Chinese people still refer to themselves as the Tang people. Have you heard of the Chinese phrase "tangren jie" (Tang-people street) used to describe "Chinatown"?

temujin77, on May 22 2005, 01:33 PM, said:

hey temujin
it was mostly the cantonese saying "Tang-shan" (tong-san) refer to Middle Kingdom,
Tang ren jie (tong yan kai) as Chinatown, Tang ren (tong yan) as we Chinese!!
even as of today. we all speak in such way. Cantonese seldom use Han in their
daily conversation but Tong

USC

Bruce Lee's first HK film (Big Boss) was called "Tong San Dai Hing." What is the real meaning of it?

hahahha

how many Bruce Lee are there now?

beanryu, on May 23 2005, 08:05 PM, said:

Sadly, no one with Bruce lee's charisma and skills in the Us now...

Ryukyu Islands were once part of the Chinese Empire, the Qing government ceded the Ryukyus to Japan in 1879.

daniel395, on Jun 17 2005, 02:38 PM, said:

Read the posts above, please.

daniel395, on Jun 17 2005, 06:38 PM, said:

If the word "ceded" can be used in describing the ending of a tributary relationship with a country due to the latter's annexation by another country, sure.

"Ryukyu Islands were once part of the Chinese Empire" is outright false.

lobster, on Jun 20 2005, 01:49 AM, said:

If being a tributary is NOT being part of the empire, sure.

DaMo, on Jun 19 2005, 09:55 PM, said:

It was also a tributary to Japan as well.

DaMo, on Jun 19 2005, 11:55 PM, said:

If Ryukyu was then so were Vietnam, Korea, Siam, Burma, many now extinct SEA states, etc........

being a tributary dosent mean that you are a province of China . being a tributary is like a colony or a protectorate. this was the status of the Ryukyus before it was ceded to Japan.

daniel395, on Jun 21 2005, 03:57 PM, said:

Must've been a shared colony then. It was a tributary to both China and Japan

Gubook Janggoon, on Jun 21 2005, 06:41 PM, said:

But it was a tributary to China first, for much of the Ming, until it started paying tribute to both China and Japan.

tongyan, on Jun 26 2005, 04:20 PM, said:

Does that matter?

Gubook Janggoon, on Jun 26 2005, 08:13 PM, said:

kinda does. if they started paying allegiance to china first the tributary relationship with china was substantially longer.
your question is kinda ambiguous... does it matter in relationship to what? since okinawa is now a part of japan it really doesn't matter that they were a tributary to anybody in the past.
but then since you mentioned that they "must've been a shared colony" i just pointed out that they actually only paid tribute to china exclusively.

tongyan, on Jun 27 2005, 03:20 PM, said:

I was asking whether it mattered who they paid tribute to first.

They only paid tribute to China? Curious. I'll have to do some more research on that. : P

The Okinawan look completely different from the Japanese.I just want to know where they were from!

See this:

http://www.wonder-ok...jp/index_en.jsp

They used to be an independent kingdom and were conquered by Japan in the late 19th century.

Inuyasha-sama, on Jan 4 2006, 05:38 AM, said:

I forgot where I read this from, but DNA collected from Ainu, Japanese and Okinawans confirm that the Okinawans have a greater amount of Jomon ancestry in them (but the highest, still being the Ainu), with the rest being similar to those found in Tungusic peoples of Russia and N.China. Perhaps this is why many are generally shorter, wider and hairier.

I think to most people, they won't be able to tell the difference between Okinawans and Japanese.. but in Hawaii, a large percentage of the ethnic Japanese who live there (up to 25% of that state's japanese population) is actually of Okinawan decent. They tend to use different last names.. such as Amuro, Arakaki, Uehara, Shimabukuro and almost everything ending in -Shiro..i.e Yamashiro, Miyashiro, etc. You will rarely find a mainland Japanese with those surnames.

Inuyasha-sama, on Jan 3 2006, 11:38 PM, said:

Really?

Can you post some picture?

During the Ming dynasty, the Ryukyu kingdom in Okinawa was one of China's major trading partners, handling Southeast Asian, Korean and Japanese goods as an entrepot. Quite a number of Chinese (most notably the '36 families') also settled there. The Qing dynasty continued to regard Ryukyu as a tributary kingdom until the Japanese annexed it as a prefecture in 1879. The Qing court protested the Japanese annexation and the issue was resolved in Japan's favour by US mediation in 1880.

My university recently hired a Japanese-American professor of Okinawan descent, named Edith Kaneshiro: http://www.fas.nus.e...hist/hiskem.htm

Interesting tidbit:

Quote

From: http://www.okinawa.com

Okinawan History:
A Chronological Table

PRIMEVAL
Old Stone Age
Shell Mound Age
605 The Chinese Emperor Yo (Sui Dynasty) sends Shu-Kan to the Ryukyus
608 From about this time, the "Southern Island" people pay tribute to the Japanese Imperial Court.

ANCIENT
1187 Shunten becomes overlord of Central Okinawa
1260 Eiso beomes new overlord
1296 A Mongol invasion army attacks Okinawa and is repulsed
1317 Miyako islanders drift ashore in China while enroute to trade in Souteast Asia
1326 At about this time, the Three Kingdoms in Okinawa (Hokuzan, Chuzan, and Nanzan) begin their rivalry
1349 Satto becomes ruler of Chuzan and increases its influence
1350 Nanzan (the southern kingdom) sends tribute to the Ming
1383 Hokuzan (the northern kingdom) sends tribute to the Ming
1392 A group of Chinese, now known as the "Thirty-six Families" are naturalized in Chuzan.
1404 A Siamese ship comes to Okinawa to trade
1416 The Chuzan King, Sho Hashi, captures Nakijin Castle and brings about the downfall of Hokuzan.
1425 Sho Hashi sends trading vessles to Siam
1428 Sho Hashi sends trading vessels to Palembang (Sumatra)
1429 Sho Hashi conquers Nanzan and is the first to succeed in uniting all Okinawa. (Beginning of the First Sho Dynasty.)
1430 Trading ships are sent to Java
1431 Sho Hashi establishes formal diplomatic relations with Korea and initiates trade
1451 Sho Kimpuku builds the Chokotei (a road around Naha inlet)
1458 The Gosamayu Awamari rebellion takes place. A large bell (the Bankoku Shinryo), on which there is an inscription concerning the prosperity of the Ryukyus, is cast.
1459 Kanemaru Uchima is appointed Foreign Trade Minister.
1463 Trading ships are sent to Malacca
1466 After an audience with the Shogun of the Muromachi Shogunate (Japan), a Ryukyuan friendship mission sets off gunpowder outside the gates in celebration and astonishes the people of Kyoto.
1470 Kanemaru Uchima overthrows the First Sho Dynasty, begins a new (the second) Sho Dynasty, and assumes the name of Sho En.
1492 The Enkakuji Temple is built
1498 Trade begins with Patani (on east coast of Malaysa)
1500 Sho Shin conquers Miyako Island, he also puts down the rebellion led by Oyake Akahachi of Yaeyama Island and assumes rule over the castles of Saki Shima (the "Southern Island" as Miyako and Yaeyama were then known.)
1511 Portugal causes the downfall of Malacca and strengthens it to be used as a base for the invasion of Asia.
1532 The first volume of the Omoro Soshi (a compendium of ancient songs and rituals) is compiled.
1534 The Chinese Ming Emperor sends an envoy, Chin Kan, and party to visit the Ryukyus
1553 Yara Castle is built at Naha Harbor and coastal defenses are prepared
1579 A tablet inscribed "Country and Propriety" is placed on public display at Shuri Castle. (Translator's Note: This tablet had been presented to the King at Shuri by the Chinese Emperor in recognition of the Ryukyuans' strict adherence to the Chiense rules of ritual and etiquette.)
1592 Hideyoshi Toyotomi (the Japanese Shogun) orders the King of the Ryukyus to assist in the invasion of Korea; the King ignores the order.
1600 The Eastern army wins the great Battle of Sekigahara (in Japan). Ieyasu Tokugawa establishes his leadership in Japan.
1609 Ichisa Shimazu of Satsuma sends 3,000 troops and subjugates the Ryukyu Kingdom. (The Shimazu Invasion)
1611 The Satsuma Clan looks into the productive capacity of the Ryukyus; divides the Amami Oshima area (the islands north of Yoron Island) from the Ryukyus: and hands down the Okite Jugo Jo (fifteen ordinances to be obeyed by all in the Ryukyus).
1614 The Satsumas order strict surveillance of all shipping into and out of the Ryukyus.

PRE-MODERN
(Feudal)
1623 Compilation of the Omoro Soshi (22 volumes) is completed
1631 As a means of keeping the Ryukyus under control, the Satsuma send a permanent administrator to Naha.
1634 The system of sending missions of congratulation and gratitude to Edo (Tokyo) is begun.
1637 A poll tax is levied on Miyako and Yaeyama Islands
1644 The Ching Dynasty succeeds the Ming Dynasty in China
1650 Sho Jo-Ken (Choshu Haneji) prepares the "History of Chuzan."
1667 Sho Jo-Ken orders acquisition of an elementary knowledge of the Japanese performing arts.
1711 A dictionary of the old Ryukyuan language (Konkoken Shu) is compiled
1719 Chokun Tamagusuku composes the Kumi Udui (odori) and the first performance is presented
1728 Sai On becomes a member of the Regency Council of Three (Prime Minister).
1734 The scholar Chobin Hishicha is executed for political offenses
1771 A tidal wave strikes Miyako and Yaeyama Islands, causing great damage
1798 A state school is founded at Shuri for the upper class descendants of samurai
1816 The British warships Alceste and Lyra call on the Ryukyus on their way home from China. Captain Basil Hall of the Lyra later stops briefly at Helena and tells the exiled Napoleon of the Ryukyus.
1844 The French warship Alemene calls and puts a Christian missionary at Naha.
1846 An English warship brings the active missionary Bettelheim to Naha.
1851 Perry, leading an American naval force, comes to Naha and visits Shuri Castle
1854 Russian warships call on Naha. Perry returns and a compact between the United States and the Kingdom of "Lew Chew" is signed.
1859 The Makishi-Onga incident occurs.
1866 Sho Tai receives seals and documents of investiture as King from the Manchus; he is the last to receive these and is also the last King of the Ryukyus.
1868 The Tokugawa Shogunate is overthorwn and a national government under the Emperor Meiji is realized.
1871 A ship manned by Miyako Islanders is shipwrecked on Formosa, and fifty-four men are murdered by aborigines. (The Formosan Shipwreck incident)
1872 The Meiji goverment abolishes the Kingdom of the Ryukyus and establishes the Ryukyu Han (feudal clan).
1879 In order to make the Ryukyus an integral part of Japan, although opposed by the hereditary lords of the Ryukyus, Meiji abolishes the Ryukyu Han and sets up Okinawa Prefecture.
1880 The Chinese Manchus strongly protest the Meiji rule over the Ryukyus; the question is reoslved through the arbitration of ex-U.S. President Grant.
1881 The Meiji government decides to preserve and utilize the old sysetm of ryule within Okinawa Prefecture.
1893 Okinawa's first newspaper, the "Ryukyu Shimpo," begins publication.

MODERN
1894 Because of China's loss in the Sino-Japanese War, anti-Japanese factions in Okinawa rapidly lose influence.
1898 The rivalry between a faction centered around Noboru Jahana, which demands revision of unjust political practices in Okinawa, and the old school deepens. Military conscription laws are put into force.
1903 Land reform is completed; new land distribution and taxation systems are established.
1909 The first election of assemblymen and convocation of an Okinawan Prefectural Assembly take place.
1911 The Okinawan historian, Fuyu Iha, publishes his great work Ko Ryukyu (Ancient Ryukyu).
1914 World War I breaks out.
1919 Laws concerning election of representatives to the House of Representatives are applied fully to Okinawa for the first time.
1925 Due to a severe recession, the three banks on Okinawa suffer management difficulties.
1926 There is great controversy centered around the novel "A Wandering Ryukyuan."
1928 Numerous labor disputes arise in Okinawa.
1934 A social science research association is formed.
1938 An Okinawa executive committee to arouse national spirit is established, and militaristic wartime systems are strengthened.
1940 A dispute about the use of the Okinawan hogen (dialect) takes place.
1941 World War II breaks out.
1944 Okinawa undergoes a great raid by American forces and Naha suffers grave damage. (The October tenth air raid.)
1945 American forces invade Okinawa. Japan surrenders unconditionally.
1946 General MacArthur declares Japan and the Nansei Shoto (all islands from Amami Oshima south to Yaeyama) to be under separate administrations.
1949 The Republic of China (Formosa) is established.
1951 San Francisco Peace Treaty puts Okinawa under American administration.
1960 The Okinawan Reversion Council is formed.
1969 Japan and the U.S. issue a joint declaration that, by mutual consent, Okinawa will be reverted to Japn on May 15, 1972.
1972 Administration of Okinawa reverts from U.S. to Japan on May 15th.
1975 The first International Ocean Expo opens on Okinawa's Motobu Peninsula

thehelp, on Jan 4 2006, 09:10 AM, said:

here you go, one of the more famous Okinawans

and yes, due to their last names, all 4 are real Okinawans.

The kingdom of Ryukyu reminds me of the kingdom of Hawaii.

lobster, on Jan 4 2006, 07:18 AM, said:

Did I mention I am pro-HI?

naruwan, on Jan 4 2006, 11:25 PM, said:

No, but thank you for sharing.

Quote

Look pretty similar to me... black hair, yellow skin etc. certainly not completely different.

urofpersia, on Jan 4 2006, 07:49 AM, said:

One thing I like to point out is the stone archeology site under water near Onikawa.

There are sites similar to that under water of Penghu and Taidong.

Huge man make stone walls.

Ther ehave been at least 3 archeology sites that were discovered in Taiwan underwater that featured artifacts related to Taiwanese aboriginals and the more ancient Huge Stone culture together. I wonder if there was some type of culture during the last iceage that build on lower lands back then.

lobster, on Jan 4 2006, 03:18 PM, said:

you're not kidding! even climate wise too. I hung around with Okinawan exchange students for a long time. They were excited to come to Oahu, but were disappointed. the Climate is exactly the same.. you still find lots of bugs there, there's still a strong American military presence on both islands, and you still see alot of Japanese.

Interestingly, at times, Okinawan dialect can be unintelligible to Japanese speakers.. there are many words that are completely different. Some would argue they are two seperate, but closely related language in the same family. However most of the younger generation is much more assimilated than the older ones.

Karakhan, on Jan 4 2006, 06:18 PM, said:

I wonder how many native Hawaiians can speak the native language, especially the younger ones. But it should have a better future than the Okinawan language. The Ainus in northern Japan are also in bad shape.

The Japanese are doing a good job in culture-ciding the minorities within their realm and not many people in the international community are saying much about it.

lobster, on Jan 4 2006, 11:43 PM, said:

from what I see, they teach Hawaiian language as a mandatory subject for grade school kids in Hawaii around 3-4th grades. but most people I talked to ended up forgetting it as they get older. What is taught is very basic stuff such as counting, the alphabet, etc. Not too many can speak the native language, and most native Hawaiians are mixed.. usually with Portugeuse, Chinese, Japanese or Filipinos.. who were the largest group of immigrants that came to Hawaii to work the plantations. In their local dialect that's spoken in Hawaii, alot of Hawaiian words are incorporated into everyday use and used by every local person.

Ainus are in worse shape.. no one really knows how big their population is either as many choose to be recognized as Japanese instead of Ainu.. and very very few speak Ainu language to any extent as well. Ultimately, alot of it is voluntary as they choose to assimilate rather than stand out. This is more true with Japan than the Hawaiians.

Karakhan, on Jan 4 2006, 03:18 PM, said:

Well, actually Hawai'i did not have masquitos until the European whaling ships began dumping waste and water into waikiki, which was a swamp back then. That soon became a real dissaster. And there spawned the first Hawai'ian masquitos.

Karakhan, on Jan 4 2006, 05:15 PM, said:

Hawaiians suffered greatly after the European arrived. Diseases called a large population. By the late 1800s, bthe number of Caucasian exceeded the number of native Hawai'ians on the island due to wrong policy, since most were Americans.

Same can be said about the Onikawans, since a large percent of them were killed by Japanese and later on during WW2.

origin = Chinese Fujian & Melayu Polynesian

Inuyasha-sama, on Jan 4 2006, 12:38 AM, said:

I think I have heard there are, on the Japanese islands, natives and they look different than migrants who traveled through ancient time. Are they Okinawans? - I have never seen native Japanese.

Recently I have read the article that Japanese are orginally came from Korea and their major religion is to worship Korean God and their ancient Korean ancestors.

I’ve heard from my Japanese friends that Okinawans are known for their longevity. They joked that their 100-yr-olds can still work tirelessly in their farms so the 30somethings (my friends) feel young like ‘babies’ when they go there. They also think the Okinawans likely originate from Taiwan or China. The few Okinawans I've met are more stocky built but still look quite Japanese to me.

I have merged this thread with two older ones on Okinawa history.

Quote

These are the Ainu:
http://www.chinahist...wtopic=9192&hl=

Quote

Go here: http://www.chinahist...p?showtopic=653

I've got a question now. Why did the Chinese, from the Sui dynasty to the early Ming, refer to Taiwan as Liuqiu (Ryukyu) - the name that was also later used by the Ryukyu Islands? Is it because Taiwan and the Ryukyus used to be under the same ruler? Or because they were culturally linked? And how did the Ryukyu kingdom start using the name 'Ryukyu'? Were they already using it before the Sui began calling Taiwan 'Ryukyu'?

There has actually been some debate on whether the Sui dynasty's 'Liuqiu' was Taiwan or the Ryukyu Islands. According to this site http://www.niraikana...se/chap1-2.html ,
"China referred to all islands between Japan and the Philippines as Liuqiu" and "Vagueness in the Sui Shu, the annal covering the Sui era, ensures that the precise location of Zhu Kuan's Liuqiu will forever be unclear".

But Chinese and Taiwanese sites, as well as Wikipedia, tend to assume that the Liuqiu of the Sui was Taiwan:

http://www.atayal.org/History1.asp
http://www.answers.c...story-of-taiwan
http://www.chinadail...tent_246920.htm
http://chinesecultur.../blstaiwan2.htm

Part of this, on the PRC side, is for the purpose of 'proving' that China has had contacts with Taiwan since ancient times. The Liuqiu of the Sui dynasty was clearly a mysterious land that was discovered by an exploratory mission. Its people spoke a language alien to the Sui expedition, and refused to submit as a Sui vassal (presumably they responded violently to gifts offered by the Sui envoy). The Sui could only capture one of the natives and some of their 'cloth and armour'. But when Japanese envoys saw these objects at the Sui court, they immediately recognized them as belonging to the 'Yiyejiu kingdom'. The Sui then sent a fleet to invade Liuqiu, and there were some 'Kunlun people' (Malays/Austronesians) serving in that fleet who were quite familiar with the Liuqiu language. These Kunlun were sent to offer terms to the Liuqiu people, but the Liuqiu again chose to resist. The Sui forces then burned the palace of the Liuqiu king, captured several thousand natives, and left. Hardly proof of this island 'belonging' to China at the time.

Bo Yang suggested that the Yizhou 夷洲 visited by a Wu fleet during the Three Kingdoms period (and usually identified as Taiwan) was also a transliteration of 'Ryukyu' or 'Yiyejiu'. He thinks it was really Okinawa/Ryukyu and not Taiwan. But as we have seen, there is alot of room for confusion about whether the first 'Ryukyu' was Taiwan or Okinawa.

The Sui Shu also states that the Liuqiu King was named Huansi Keladou, and that 'king' was called Kelaoyang and 'queen' was Duobatu in their language. I would be interested to know if this bears any similarity to Okinawan or Taiwanese aboriginal words.

Does anyone think that the word "Liuqiu" may have some meaning? Like maybe it means something special in the Chinese or austronesian language... or maybe It's a general term like "dongyi" (hehehe) that what the word refers to varies from time to time?

See also http://www.chinahist...?showtopic=8316 on the Ming dynasty and the Ryukyu kingdom

[Note: Karakhan's post on the Ainu has been moved to the Ainu thread in Gallery]

Yun, on Jan 7 2006, 09:43 AM, said:

夷洲 description was so vague it could be anywhere.

There used to be Da Liuqiu and Xiao Liuqiu. And Xiao LiuQiu amazingly referred to Taiwan.

In fact many early European maps called Taiwan LiuQiu as well. And many of these maps thought Taiwan was two islands. Therefore being 3 Liuqius.

The fact is, Taiwan was very hard to sail to from Mainland by wind alone. If you don't know where you are going, Taiwan is not that sort of island that could be discovered if you are simply drifting. I already explain somewhere else on the forum, that due to seasonal wind and strong north south black current, crossing the Taiwan straight was difficult even during Qing dynasty.

Ryukyo is on the other hand just this sort of island. That is why Ryukyo became the commerce junction between China and Japan for a while.

Does anyone know if ryukyuans want independence ?

--------------------------------------------------------

Today, few people, including the Okinawans themselves (with the exception of a few "Okinawan nationalists") would dispute Japanese suzerainty over Okinawa. However, the events that led the Japanese to officially incorporate the Kingdom of Ryukyu into its Empire were actually not as "clear-cut" as one might think, given the complexity of Sino-Japanese-Ryukyuan relations, specifically the traditional dual subordination of the Kingdom of Ryukyu to both China and Japan.

Most Japanese and Western historians would mark the 1874 Treaty between China and Japan as (1) the relinquishment of Chinese claim over the Kingdom of Ryukyu and (2) the beginning of Japan's sovereignty claim over the Kingdom of Ryukyu. The Treaty was signed as the direct and indirect result of the Ryukyu Shipwreck Incident in 1871. A group of Ryukuan people had been shipwrecked on the coast of Formosa and were massacred by the Taiwanese aborigines. In 1874, the Japanese government sent an expenditionary force to Formosa to punish the aborgines and consequently they were able to claim retroactively that the Ryukuan castaways were Japanese subjects. The rationale behind this maneuver hinged upon international law which provides the right of a sovereign government to protect its nationals.

However, closer inspection of the contents of the 1874 Treaty signed between China and Japan after the Japanese expedition to Formosa has revealed that it was not a treaty about China's recognition of Japan's claim over the islands. As a matter of fact, the Ryukyu Islands were not even mentioned in the Treaty and the Taiwanese aborigines' massacre of the Ryukyuans was still seen as an "internal affair" by Chinese officials. But the Japanese scholars have since then used that Treaty as China's giving up her suzerainty over the Ryukuans, while in reality China still considered the tributary status of the kingdom unchanged. The Japanese claim was based on two points:

1. Since China in the 1874 Treaty recognized Japan's action in Taiwan as "righteous", she was thus implicitly giving up her suzerainty over Ryukyu.

2. By agreeing to pay the handsome sum of money to compensate the shipwrecked Ryukuans of 1871, China had explicitly abandoned her responsibility, and thus her sovereign right, over the Ryukuan people.

Thus the question, which was coloured by the mixed Japanes motives of territorial expansion and frontier security, and the Chinese determination to preserve the status quo, remained an accute issue during the following years.

Reference:

Leung, E. P.-W. (1983). The quasi-war in East Asia: Japan's expendition to Taiwan and the Ryukyu controversy. Modern Asian Studies, 17 (2), 257-281.

First of all according to internation law the principle of self-determination and the 1874 treaty was unfair, Ryuku in theory can be independent if the people while still constitute a Ryukyu people want to.

Unfortunately political reality does not allow so, because the is a US base on Okinawa. As long as the US can still maintain the balance of power in Asia, Okinawa will be Japan's.

phoenix_bladen, on Oct 13 2006, 04:50 AM, said:

only a vocal minority, with an emphasis on minority. I see Okinawans everyday and joke around about the issue all the time, most see no point in seperation. Other than their distinct accent, they are very assimilated with the rest of Japan, and in fact, take pride that a good percentage of popular Japanese entertainers are Okinawan. i.e Namie Amuro, Speed, Gackt, Orange Range, etc.