[l0ckx]

is there a strong russian influence in northern china bordering Russia? Does russian culture and influence bleed into chinese, and vice versa? Also, what about the language? are there also heavly russian populated cities in china, or chinese populated cities in russia?

[Kediren]

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are there also heavly russian populated cities in china, or chinese populated cities in russia?

no.. not really..

in russan federation you can see very mixed cities..( on the border with china.. the cities do have balanced populations. )

not same in north-china..

it give here a majiority of han then a manchu, mongols, koreans (most of them are illigal people from north-korea) and many traders from russian federation..

http://www.khabkrai....tion/index.html <-- chabarowskij krai goverment site.. sorry only in russian language..

http://www.hlj.gov.cn/

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Heilongjiang

This post has been edited by Kediren: 21 February 2006 - 06:24 AM

[jiangji]

I think it was another way around. There are now many articles currenlty saying China will soon takeover Far East with its huge population.

[Kediren]

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I think it was another way around. There are now many articles currenlty saying China will soon takeover Far East with its huge population.

hm.. can you give a link on this articles?

and now back on topic..

[l0ckx]

jiangji, on Feb 21 2006, 12:23 PM, said:

I think it was another way around. There are now many articles currenlty saying China will soon takeover Far East with its huge population.

i'm not sure what you're talking about...in relation to russian influence in china. could you please explain?

[Yun]

Harbin was a Russian city until after the 1917 Revolution, when it was taken over by China.

This book by James Carter covers its identity crisis in the 1920s, when the large Russian and other European communities had great difficulty adjusting to Chinese rule, and the Chinese population increasingly directed its nationalism against these foreigners: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/080143966...5Fencoding=UTF8

A review of the book: http://www.cefc.com.hk/uk/pc/articles/art_..._art_ligne=4907

We have a thread on the history of Harbin, here: http://www.chinahist...?showtopic=5331

[jiangji]

Kediren, on Feb 21 2006, 05:49 PM, said:

hm.. can you give a link on this articles?

and now back on topic..

BBC News | MEDIA REPORTS | Russians fear Chinese takeover
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/not_in_website/...rts/1273792.stm

Chinese Migration to the Russian Fast East: A human security dilemma
http://gsti.miis.edu...209Wishnick.pdf

Why China should purchase the Russian Far East.
http://www.cdi.org/r...nson/7272-3.cfm

A Chinese `Invasion`
http://www.gateway2r.../art_144395.php

Chinese migration to Russia Far East: A view from Moscow
http://gsti.miis.edu...0208Gelbras.pdf

Reaction of population of the Russia Far East to presence of chinese people
http://gsti.miis.edu...0105Motrich.pdf

China Security Interests in the Russian Far East
http://src-home.slav.hokudai.ac.jp/coe21/p...chapter4_ni.pdf

China s Growing Global Influence: Objectives and Strategies
http://www.uscc.gov/hearings/2005hearings/...herman_wrts.pdf

Triads tighten grip on Russia's far east
http://www.asiapacif.../russia_triads/

There are many more..just search it on google.

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i'm not sure what you're talking about...in relation to russian influence in china. could you please explain?

I meant was it is actually other way around. The Russia influence was actually limited in the northern china. After USSR collapse, Fast East economy suffers a lot and population decline rapidly reducing its influence. Only recently that the region was began to recover with the oil boom.

This post has been edited by jiangji: 21 February 2006 - 02:06 PM

[Kediren]

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I think it was another way around. There are now many articles currenlty saying China will soon takeover Far East with its huge population.

dont forgot a immigrants with russian Citizenry are not chinese. and china have nothing to say for this people..

btw. i dont hting that a china want do risk a war with russian federation in the next time.. dont forgot how fast a russia can close their borders..
and your links dont represent a actualy state of chinese immigration in russaian federation..

do read this and tell me then where you see "China will soon takeover Far East with its huge population".?
http://src-home.slav.hokudai.ac.jp/coe21/p...chapter4_ni.pdf

or do you thing that mexican immigrants do conquer USA for Estados Unidos Mexicanos?

it is like in South Korea.. chinese traders come, trade, make money and go home.. some of they do immigrate and became Koreans..
assimilate korean customs, get little korean children and see them as koreans with chinese origins..


but, what have it to do with a actualy topic?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

back on topic:

http://www.answers.c...harbin-russians

http://www.cs.ust.hk...orth_china.html

http://www.hoover.or...ks/siberia.html

This post has been edited by Kediren: 21 February 2006 - 06:27 PM

[jiangji]

Kediren, on Feb 21 2006, 10:14 PM, said:

dont forgot a immigrants with russian Citizenry are not chinese. and china have nothing to say for this people..

btw. i dont hting that a china want do risk a war with russian federation in the next time.. dont forgot how fast a russia can close their borders..
and your links dont represent a actualy state of chinese immigration in russaian federation..

do read this and tell me then where you see "China will soon takeover Far East with its huge population".?
http://src-home.slav.hokudai.ac.jp/coe21/p...chapter4_ni.pdf

or do you thing that mexican immigrants do conquer USA for Estados Unidos Mexicanos?

it is like in South Korea.. chinese traders come, trade, make money and go home.. some of they do immigrate and became Koreans..
but, what have it to do with a actualy topic?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

back on topic:

http://www.answers.c...harbin-russians

http://www.cs.ust.hk...orth_china.html

http://www.hoover.or...ks/siberia.html

I think you view me as "china loyalist" which like to glorify everything about Han Chinese or china. This is not what I do. If you look at many of these articles, it is written not by chinese. I never says that China will or must takeover Far East. What I want to make here is that Russian influence in northern china are limited and it was other way around. Russian in Far East started to fears Chinese influence in Far east. Do you even read the articles I gave you?

[Kediren]

do you was in harbin?

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I think you view me as "china loyalist" which like to glorify everything about Han Chinese or china.

no i dont see it so.. i dont make a mean about people they i dont know at face.. i talk only about your texts and means in this topic..

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I never says that China will or must takeover Far East.

hm..

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There are now many articles currenlty saying China will soon takeover Far East with its huge population.

no.. i have talk about where you see a means about a "articles currenlty saying China will soon takeover Far East with its huge population".

most of this articles talk about a chinese nationalism streams against russian teritories and legal and illigal trade and immigration on RF-China border now..

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Do you even read the articles I gave you?

yup.. i have read it..

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What I want to make here is that Russian influence in northern china are limited and it was other way around.

i know that it is limited.. all is limited.. han influence is limited, mongol influence is limited and russian to.. like chinese influence in a far east and habarowski krai now..

culture do life from influence and mixing developmends..(in russian federation more as in other countries)

-

This post has been edited by Kediren: 21 February 2006 - 06:45 PM

[jiangji]

Kediren, on Feb 21 2006, 11:40 PM, said:

hm..
no.. i have talk about where you see a means about a "articles currenlty saying China will soon takeover Far East with its huge population".

I never says China will takeover the Far East. I says there are many articles currently saying China will takover Far east. These threat is often being exagerated by the Russian. Without reading properly, you quickly mistaken me.

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yup.. i have read it..

I don't think so. If you read the entire articles instead of the first half, you would not say these articles just talk about "chinese nationalism streams against russian teritories and legal and illigal trade and immigration on RF-China border now."

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i know that it is limited.. all is limited.. han influence is limited, mongol influence is limited and russian to.. like chinese influence in a far east and habarowski krai now..

Did I ever says Han influence was much greater than any other ethnics ? Please get on topic.

This post has been edited by jiangji: 21 February 2006 - 06:51 PM

[xng]

Yun, on Feb 21 2006, 11:55 AM, said:

Harbin was a Russian city until after the 1917 Revolution, when it was taken over by China.

Inner manchuria (including harbin) and outer manchuria were part of china during the ching dynasty. It should be the other way around. It was a chinese city taken over by the russian which was taken back by china.

[xng]

jiangji, on Feb 21 2006, 05:29 PM, said:

I think you view me as "china loyalist" which like to glorify everything about Han Chinese or china. This is not what I do. If you look at many of these articles, it is written not by chinese. I never says that China will or must takeover Far East. What I want to make here is that Russian influence in northern china are limited and it was other way around. Russian in Far East started to fears Chinese influence in Far east. Do you even read the articles I gave you?

Jiangji

Don't argue with kediren who is a white german, some people still have their own views however you argue. Just ignore his posts.

[fcharton]

xng, on Feb 22 2006, 01:13 AM, said:

Don't argue with kediren who is a white german, some people still have their own views however you argue. Just ignore his posts.

What has this to do with being a "white german"?

Francois, white french.

This post has been edited by fcharton: 21 February 2006 - 07:50 PM

[tongyan]

xng, on Feb 21 2006, 07:13 PM, said:

Jiangji

Don't argue with kediren who is a white german, some people still have their own views however you argue. Just ignore his posts.

I'm not sure the fact that kediren is a white german has anything to do with this discussion. There is, however, somewhat of an issue in the fact that kediren's english can sometimes be unclear or ambiguous.

In another respect, I'm also not sure that just because kediren has his own views means that his posts should be ignored. If everybody had the same views, then there need not be any discussion. It's because of people with differing views like kediren that discussion continues to be valid. Otherwise, we could presumably just have some expert spouting his views and all of us can simply listen and agree - since all our views would be the same.