[astralis]

part of the focus of modernization initiated by the merchant-statesman li hung-chang was the beiyang fleets and the corresponding docks and forts. by the standards of the age, china's navy was quite decent, in the top ten navies of the world (ahead of the US, i might add).

yet in 1894-5 they got their clocks cleaned out by the japanese, with blame for this being put on everything from gunpowder to bad training to faulty ship design to too much/too little armor.

so, let's take a look into this!

if anyone has any pictures, articles, or papers about the beiyang fleet, please post them here!!!

[Yun]

There were some links in this earlier thread: http://www.chinahist...p?showtopic=543

Let's talk about which our favourite Beiyang warship is: mine is the Chaoyong, because the name sounds cool ("Extreme Courage"). But as I said before, I like all the names of the Beiyang ships.

Most of the Beiyang vessels had actually been ordered from Britain, and were of the latest design. I seem to recall that the Japanese got theirs from Germany - can anyone verify this? The Beiyang fleet was stronger than the Japanese on paper - what doomed it in my opinion was inferiority in tactical manoeuvring, gunnery, ammunition, and leadership.

[thirdgumi]

The largest ships of Bei Yang fleet, Ding Yuan and Zhen Yuan were from Germany. The looked very manacing if we look them at the front.

[Borjigin Ayurbarwada]

The Beiyang fleet almost beat the Japanese fleet in Yalu, the torpedo boat Fu Long shot the boat of the Japanese commander, but due to poor management the missile didn't explode and when right under the enemy ship.

There are certain disadvantage of Bei Yang, Some of the Japanese ships newly bought in the 90s was faster, that was crucial and it could perfomed the surrounding tactic which it did. Second is the command of the Japanese ships, they are trained to fight individually ,in small units, or all together, the Japanese fleet also could change their commander once the commander;s boat is shot. the Bei Yang only had a central command, once Ding Yuan's signal is hit, it could no longer command until much later when the command is transfered.
But Beiyang fleet had twice the amount of ships and better damage control for their two top ships; Ding Yuan and Zheng Yuan. Beiyang fleet had 65 warships, the Imperial fleet only had 32.
The Beiyang fleet was far superior in name as well as in fact in the 80s.

[astralis]

i find that this trend goes for both the beiyang army and navy:

they both started out strong against the japanese, but after the close initial defeats they started to fold like a deck of cards.

it got to the point where the remnants of the beiyang fleet were holed up in weihaiwei, seemingly protected by mines, until finally the japanese snuck a few torpedo ships through that wrecked the remainder of the (still) powerful fleet.

[wei]

can u guys enlighten me more on the beiyang fleet?
on the two German ironclads, Ting Yuan and Chen Yuan?
it would be cool if there were pictures on them

[Liang Jieming]

Ning Hai 1934


Ping Hai 1937

[snowybeagle]

If you can read Chinese, go to http://www.beiyang.org/
It has both traditional and simplified texts, but the English page is not ready.

I only know of Ding Yuan (定远) and Zhen Yuan (镇远) ships, they were mentioned several times.

[Liang Jieming]

Try this site too. This is the site I used for the info on Japanese ships for my boardgame Carriers. But anyway, it also lists info on the ex-Beiyang ships which were sunk/captured and refloated/converted for use by the Imperial naval against the USN.

http://www.combinedfleet.com/

[astralis]

I am currently doing some side study on my own regarding the Sino-Japanese War! I would appreciate any and all information, pictures, stories, accounts that can be found regarding it- from naval actions to land battles to logistics systems, etc etc.

Hopefully I'll get more than just the Wikipedia article

The more detailed the information the better, I welcome primary sources especially!

Thanks,

Astralis

[HaSY]

What do you want to know about?
The battle between Qing forces and Japanese army near Xuanwu Gate in Korea?
The betrayal of Commander-in-chief Ding Ruchang's army officers and foreign military instructors?
Btw...I always wondered how modern is the Japanese Army than the Qing Army?

[Yun]

How's this article on the naval battle of the Yalu River?

http://www.absolutea...iver_(1894).htm

[astralis]

Yun,

Thanks for that.

Hasy,

Any and all info! I'm familiar with the Jiawu War already, but I'm looking for some detailed information for an in-depth study.

As for the japanese army, they were over-all better armed, better trained, and better lead. A few chinese units here and there sported better weapons, better training, and better leaders, but they were relatively few and far in between.

[snowybeagle]

http://www.beiyang.org

if you haven't checked it out yet.
Plus you can find a couple of threads in the military/Qing folder too.