[astralis]

yes, i've seen that. i'm also thinking about consolidating all the other folders into this one, what do you guys think?

[astralis]

well, given the lack of reply,

i have merged the beiyang fleet info with this one. that way we can have one big thread with all this interesting stuff!

[Sephodwyrm]

Schematics of the Ding Yuan iron-armored line battleship (ok...I don't know enough nautical terms).



The anchor.

After the Jiawu War, Ding Yuan was sunk while Zheng Yuan was claimed as a prize where it served the Imperial Japanese navy for a while, before being scrapped and the anchor held in a Tokyo park to shame the Chinese. In 1947, the anchor was reclaimed where it now resides in the military museum in China.

[astralis]

ahhh thanks. more the merrier!

[Abahai]

Qing Navy soldier who fought in JiaWu War.[attachment=512:attachment]

丁汝昌提督。

[HaSY]

Erm...Excuse me...Did the soldier on far left of the pic above wear a skull cap or helmet??For clarity only....

[astralis]

HaSY,

most likely a skullcap. this was the beiyang navy, after all.

the interesting thing is that i've also seen pictures of beiyang navy sailors getting ready to board ship; they wear over-sized sailor caps instead. i wish i could post them here.

[astralis]

i've been doing some research, and i came upon some interesting figures for a comparison between beiyang navy and IJN ships, courtesy of the american naval attache at the time, as well as "vladimir", which i've identified as zuone volpicelli, i believe the italian diplomat to korea at the time. also with the help of wikipedia and http://www.fortuneci...rik/sino01.html. sorry for the mess, this was done in excel. if anyone can make any corrections, i'd be eternally grateful.
----

China
Name of Vessel Warship Class Tonnage Speed (knots) Date and location built
Ting-yuen Battleship 7430 15.4 1883, Germany
Chen-yuen Battleship 7430 15.5 1883, Germany
King-yuen Armored Cruiser 2900 15 1887, Germany
Lai-yuen Armored Cruiser 2900 15 1887, Germany
Ping-yuen Armored Cruiser 2600 10.5 1890, Fuzhou
Tsi-yuen Protected Cruiser 2355 17.5 1884, Germany
Chih-yuen Protected Cruiser 2300 18.5 1887, England
Ching-yuen Protected Cruiser 2300 18.5 1887, England
Chao-yung Unprotected Cruiser 1350 16.2 1881, England
Yang-wei Unprotected Cruiser 1350 16.2 1881, England
Tsi-an Unprotected Cruiser 1258 10 unknown
Kuang-chia Unprotected Cruiser 1296 16.5 1891, Fuzhou
Kuang-ping Unprotected Cruiser 1100 16.5 1891, Fuzhou
Kuang-ki Unprotected Cruiser 1030 16.5 1891, Fuzhou
Kang-chi Corvette 1300 unknown unknown
Wei-yuan Corvette 1300 unknown unknown
Mei-yun Gunboat 515 unknown 1876, Shanghai
Tsao-kiong Gunboat 572 unknown 1876, Shanghai
Chen-hai Gunboat 440 10 1878, England
Chen-pei Gunboat 440 10 1878, England
Chen-nan Gunboat 440 10 1878, England
Chen-hsi Gunboat 440 10 1878, England
Chen-tung Gunboat 440 10 1878, England
Chen-chung Gunboat 440 10 1878, England
Chen-pien Gunboat 440 10 1878, England
Chen-an Gunboat 440 10 1878, England

Japan
Name of Vessel Warship Class Tonnage Speed (knots) Date and location built
Matsushima Battleship 4277 16 1891, France
Itsukushima Armored Cruiser 4277 16.8 1891, France
Hashidate Armored Cruiser 4277 16 1894, Yokosuka
Fuso Protected Cruiser 3717 13.2 1878, England
Chiyoda Protected Cruiser 2450 19 1890, England
Naniwa Protected Cruiser 3650 18.9 1886, England
Takachiho Protected Cruiser 3650 17.9 1886, England
Yoshino Protected Cruiser 4150 23 1893, England
Akitsushima Protected Cruiser 3150 19 1894, Yokosuka
Amagi Unprotected Cruiser 1030 15 1878, Yokosuka
Tenriu Unprotected Cruiser 1547 12 1885, Yokosuka
Katsuragi Unprotected Cruiser 1476 13 1887, Yokosuka
Yamato Unprotected Cruiser 1476 13.5 1887, Yokosuka
Musashi Unprotected Cruiser 1774 13.5 1888, Yokosuka
Takao Unprotected Cruiser 1600 15 1889, Yokosuka
Yayeyama Unprotected Cruiser 1600 20 1890, Yokosuka
Hiyei Corvette 2250 14 1878, England
Kongo Corvette 2250 14 1878, England
Kaimon Corvette 1358 12 1884, Yokosuka
Tsukushi Corvette 1350 16.8 1883, England
Banjo Gunboat 656 unknown 1880, Yokosuka
Oshima Gunboat 639 10 1892, Yokosuka
Maya Gunboat 614 13 1890, Yokosuka
Atago Gunboat 614 11 1890, Yokosuka
Akagi Gunboat 614 12 1890, Yokosuka
Chokai Gunboat 614 10 1890, Yokosuka

[Inst]

Questions:

What was the total number of guns available to each side, and what were their caliber?

What percent of Chinese shells were duds?

Which was a greater factor in the Japanese victory? The corruption of the Beiyang Navy (ie, dud shells reducing weapon effectiveness) or the competence of the Japanese?

Oh, and the Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia....lu_River_(1894)

[HaSY]

astralis, on Nov 29 2005, 03:26 AM, said:

HaSY,

most likely a skullcap. this was the beiyang navy, after all.

the interesting thing is that i've also seen pictures of beiyang navy sailors getting ready to board ship; they wear over-sized sailor caps instead. i wish i could post them here.

Great....So why wouldn't you post??

I just want to see about the pics of Nanyang Navy...It's hard to find them.....

[astralis]

inst,

Quote

Questions:

What was the total number of guns available to each side, and what were their caliber?

What percent of Chinese shells were duds?

Which was a greater factor in the Japanese victory? The corruption of the Beiyang Navy (ie, dud shells reducing weapon effectiveness) or the competence of the Japanese?

i have the numbers of guns and calibers available.

as for percent of duds, i want to know that myself. however, i do have gunnery accuracy percentages as well.

finally, the last question is something that is of debate among many academics. my own theory is the corruption of the beiyang navy, more than anything else; however, poor communication is also a major factor. i will post the figures i have later today when i have more time

HaSY,

reason why i'm not posting is because the pictures are on a book from 1895. scanning them gives bad quality, and plus might harm the book...sorry.

as for the nanyang navy, i haven't seen many pictures of the sailors, but i have seen a few pictures of some of the ships floating around (pre 1885). if anyone has pictures of the nanyang navy after it got built up again after the sino-french war, that'd be cool.

[Inst]

Quote

scanning them gives bad quality, and plus might harm the book...sorry.

Which is why I'm personally an advocate of cameras and cameraphones. =)

At least, it's significantly faster in most instances than a scanner.

Quote

however, poor communication is also a major factor.

According to the Wikipedia article, while the Tianyuan killed its own commanders (hilarious! Supposedly they fired the main guns in an ahead setting, something that was supposed to be dangerous to the flying bridge), the ships partially negated the loss of communications by fighting in pairs. And somehow, the Chinese fleet managed to avoid a Japanese encirclement.

Quote

however, i do have gunnery accuracy percentages as well.

Thanks!

This post has been edited by Inst: 30 November 2005 - 08:33 AM

[astralis]

interesting enough, i found it online.

comparative fleet strength by guns:

http://www.navyandma...FleetTables.htm

description of battle of yalu by american advisor to chinese:

http://www.navyandma...4YaluBattle.htm

as regarding accuracy:

"As to the practice, it was on both sides bad; but, as the Japanese have admitted, the Chinese excelled. The Japanese percentage of hits (excluding 6-pounder and lighter projectiles) was about twelve; the Chinese perhaps twenty."

[HaSY]

Interesting!!!!
Why there is lack of details and pictures regarding officers in charge of the Qing army and the navy which involved in the conflict?It's hard to find them...

[Inst]

Looks like the Chinese fleet had more long range weapons, maybe if they had tried to engage the Japanese fleet at range they would have had more success. But that would certainly have been an impossibility once the fleet commander managed to kill himself inadverdently with his own guns.