RICECAKE, on Aug 28 2006, 05:55 AM, said:
Racism was two-way traffic in those days,Han Chinese generally regarded Nomadic hordes as " barbaric " and wouldn't comsidered marriage with them either.
Your definition of racism must be very different from some others. To my knowledge, racism is to despice certain group of people because of their blood. Han Chinese called the nomadic hordes because their regular behavior of constant and endless murding, plundering other civilized area and kidnaping and raping millions of women and also evalued these kinds behavior as glory. Records from different countries are consistent in their crimes, such as riper open pregnent women to kill the unborn baby, raping women in front of the huasbands and sons than killing the latter in front of women. In the record about what the Manchu army did in YangZhou city, when the Manchus sodliers saw women holding small baby, the first thing they did is to throw the small baby to the ground to death, they forced the mother to step on the brains liquid of their own baby and rape them in front of the childrend's dead body. I have problem to understand why Han Chinese victims are not allowed to regard this group criminals as barbarian with heart of animals, and if they did not obey this prohibation, they are racists. There are also other country where people do not consider to marry criminals before they changed their value system. But in the most part of world, this kind of despising are usually not sorted as racism, because it is not despice a certain group of people according to their blood, but only according to their behaviors.
Most Chinese, as many other people in this world, believe it is possible for different group of people live together in peace and hamony. They are against racism and chauvinism because it is not helpful to live paecfully. But there are other kind of people in this world, the Nurhach family and their supporters for example, who think enslaving others is the only way they can live better, They changed definition for racism, if any Chinese are reluctant to be their slaves, it is racism or "Han-Chauvinsm". They are against "racism" not for live peacfully with others, but to justify their enslaving action against Chinese. I guess you are one of them, am I wrong?
Unlike the Manchu-Qing regime, Han Chinese did not organize any action to plunder or enslave Jurgens and they just dislike the other side murdering and plundering them. In any part of this earth, it is a very natural reactions from the victims. You do not think the innocent Han victms and their descendants deserve any human right of blaming the murder because you are a racist toward Han Chinese youself.
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Nurhaci had lifetime obsessed wavering hatred through out his reign toward Han Chinese,who he blamed the death of his father and grandfather executed by Ming Court.
This is simply a lie. Nurhaci's grandfather and and father were not executed by the Ming Court. They were the officers of Ming govement. When they tried to pursuade some Jurgen rebeling force to surrender, the Ming army attacked the rebelling force and kill them accidently. Nurhaci had no problem to accept apology with rich and generous commpensation and serve in the Ming court to accept weapon and wealth from Ming court, until he found he can plunder Han-Chinese area without problem. His so called hatred is just an excuse to attract others to plunder China. Without these so called hatres, these kind of criminals would alway do the same. Korean has not kill any of his family member but they never spare any korean when they raid them. In a single military action, they kidnap 20,000 korean women. They idid those kind of crimes not because korean or Han-Chinese oppress them, but becasue they did not produce food and textile themself, and they found killing plundering Han and Koreans was the quickest way to become rich.
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His son Qing Tai-Zhu implemented some changes to minimized ethnic conflicts/institutionalized bigotry toward ethnic Han as soon as he took the helm.
The way they "minimized ethnic conflicts/institutionalized bigotry toward ethnic Han" is to raiding Han Chinese and Korean area, killing millions of innocent Han-Chinese. When you try to praise this kind of murder, you certainly think the human life of those victims worth nothing, right?
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Replaying victimhood through history and self-victimization provenly damaged self-esteem among modern day Chinese.
The jews victims can not expcet any esteem and respect from Nazi murders.and supporters. Han-Chinese can not seek any esteem from the manchu-qing murders and their supporters. This is simply because Nazi and Manchu-Qing supporters never consider human life of their victims worth anything.
With thinking of Han Chinese deserve nothing but only being slave of the Manchu regime, no matter what chinese do, how can you give any esteem to Chinese anyway? Stoping blaming the murder in order to get esteem from you does sound very feasible, right? At least for me, it is far more important for Chinese to avoid being harmed by a malicious group or organization than paying great effort for getting esteem from them.
by the way, we did not replay any victimhood through history. we were willing to live with the dessident of the murders with equal right. We already forive the and amlost forget the crimes in the history until we were reminded by this kind of picture, TV program and movie almost every week played in China, in which they publiclally glorify the murders and insult the victims and their descendants.
I think it is really stupid to make this kind of picture, because the manchu group in history get their text by plundering Han Chinese. and they were not so easy to get such expensive silk made clothes. It is even more stupid that, despite their own ancesstors including the women victims who were kidnapped and rapred by the murders, they still fell so pround about the crimes the criminal did. They despice Han Chinese by completely forgotten it was Han Chinese who produce and provide all the nesssarry resouce to them during the whole Qing period. Even more, they have forgotten that Han Chinese generously forgave that they have evil ancesstors who committed terrible crimes like animals, and have willing to live with them peacefully with equal right. With all these mercy, they are still malicous to Han Chinese and try all the way to insult and hurt them. They even publically called them idoit, claim there is nothing wrong to kill tens of millions Chinese after they did not receive any retaliation from the latter.
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Manchu Court RIGHTLY imposed " pigtail " on conquered population for it was their hair-wear not what some idiotic Chinese propagated as racism against ethnic Hans or brainwashed Hans forgetting their NON-Manchu roots.
Well, different people have different standard about right or wrong.; Nazi supporter think Hilter rightly impose the ethinic cleaning towards the Jew victims, because they did not care about human life the millions jew victims, exactly as you did not care about the human life of the tens of millions Han Chinese who were murdered by the Manchu court.
You think the personal favorit habbits of the Manchu rulers is more important than the human life millions of the Chinese who did not want to wear in the same way with them, so you think there is nothing wrong to kill the latter. I guess if you have the opportunity, you will kill us like that again, because you never think we are worth anything, right? Aparently, you evalue one group of people higher than Han Chinese, isn't this a typical racisms?
When people in this world want to live peacefully together, they think it is right that innocent people should not be killed. However, there are other types of human being in this world, their only interests are to enslaving others. They are always reluctant to produce and construct. Any accient inventions, technology such as silk, tea, china or art have nothing to do with the Jurgen/Manchu regime. They were so busy to pluder and killing others so that they even have not have their own written system without other's help. In the letter Huang taiji to the Ming court, he threaten to raid if Ming do not give them enough food and textile.
I guess they must think all Han Chinese are idoits and easy to be enslaved again. If one day, Han chinese finally find how smart this group, I am not sure the results is what they really want to get. Might be I am wrong, we will see.
This post has been edited by 赵丰年: 28 August 2006 - 04:47 PM
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