[Rong Qin Wang]

Zunjing de China History Forum members,

We are all aware that the nearly 300-year rule of the Qing Dynasty came to an end mostly in the hands of Empress Ci Xi. I know that opinions for Empress Ci Xi can vary greatly depending on the sources, but it is undisputable that she is very famous. However, I think that most people, including myself, have forgotten or overlooked at the fact that Empress Xiao Zhuang also had a lot of contributions, and should be equally famous? She certainly was not as notorious, but it seems funny that bad people are more well-known than good people!

With this in mind, I would like some members to give a critique on Empress Xiao Zhuang. I know that there is a thread in here about her and Dorgon, but I am more interested in her accomplishments, so I really don’t want to read too much about her personal love life. Since I cannot read Chinese, my knowledge is very limited. So, I would really appreciate it if some members can enlighten me on what they think of Empress Xiao Zhuang.

Xie Xie,

[galvatron prime]

i see some history book say she was born on 1613 and some resources say she was desendents from genghis khan ?,her mongol given name was bamburtai ,she have 3 daughter before emperor fulin was born with emperor hongtaiji ,all i know is she never celebration her birthday in exanggerate way like empress ci xi and wasted the goverments money for her own benefit like empress cixi and i see on tvb althought it was wuxia serias , she was a great advisor too for emperor kang xi and help him to get rid of oubai ,she too treat children and grandchildren from other prince plus her rival prince very well and love it people,some resources say she the best empress qing ever have .

[yongzheng freak]

Well, the impression i have of her is that she was a shrewd politician and if she wasn't a lady, she would probably be an extremely sucessful ruler.

[Rong Qin Wang]

Zunjing de China History Forum members,

Hmm, I guess Empress Xiao Zhuang was thriftier, and treated relatives better than Empress Ci Xi?

Ironically, except for Wikipedia, none of my sources mentioned anything about her having three daughters before Emperor Shun Zhi. Also, I have always read that her name was Da Yu Er? Does anyone have the actual Chinese sources on these matters?

I assume that she would have been a pretty decent ruler if she had the desire for that position. So, do historians view her as a wise Empress, or as a ruthless dictator? Was she a power-hungry woman like Empress Ci Xi, or Empress Lu of the Han Dynasty? Was she loved, or hated by her people?

Xie Xie,

[galvatron prime]

i see her 3 daughter was named princess yung mu born 1629 ,princesss hu hui born 1632 and princess tuan hsien born 1633 ,that all i know thank you .

[vp98]

From the historical drama shows produced by China, she seems to be a very clever lady. She ma

She engineered the enthronement of her son ShunZhi emperor.

She also had a relationship with Hongtaiji's half brother. Incest family.

[Sephodwyrm]

Actually its not really incest...its more adultery.
She's a Mongol, and they're Manchus.
If we're talking about incest, I would say San Niangzi is one that would make you puke.

[Rong Qin Wang]

vp98, on Sep 6 2006, 10:47 PM, said:

From the historical drama shows produced by China, she seems to be a very clever lady. She ma

She engineered the enthronement of her son ShunZhi emperor.

She also had a relationship with Hongtaiji's half brother. Incest family.

Zunjing de China History Forum members,

Can we really trust TV Series that much? I have seen all the TV Series about Empress Xiao Zhuang, and I am very confused because each of the TV Series portrayed her in a different light. So, I am much more interested in what was actually recorded in official history books about her, and what you guys think about her. Since I cannot read Chinese, I would really appreciate some facts or comments based on historical documents. Will someone please help me out?

Sephodwyrm, on Sep 9 2006, 05:24 PM, said:

Actually its not really incest...its more adultery.
She's a Mongol, and they're Manchus.
If we're talking about incest, I would say San Niangzi is one that would make you puke.

Zunjing de Sephodwyrm Xian Sheng,

Yeah, I agree that the Mongols and the Manchu have different definitions of the word “incest.” By the way, is it still a Han custom right now to have cousins with different last names marry each other? Is that not considered incest by today’s standard?

Xie Xie,

[Chen Shi Xuan]

vp98, on Sep 7 2006, 01:47 PM, said:

From the historical drama shows produced by China, she seems to be a very clever lady. She ma

She engineered the enthronement of her son ShunZhi emperor.

She also had a relationship with Hongtaiji's half brother. Incest family.

Ya. She is quite clever enough but also a very humble Empress Dowager. Read from a book that suggest she actually helped Kangxi to remove Oboi from power since he was posing a threat to Kangxi's rule.

Regards,
Shi Xuan

[Parachutes]

yongzheng freak, on Sep 2 2006, 01:10 PM, said:

Well, the impression i have of her is that she was a shrewd politician and if she wasn't a lady, she would probably be an extremely sucessful ruler.

Agreed.

She was definitely a very shrewd and intelligent person and probably would be a very capable ruler if she had been a male.