[Ghost_of_Han]

Well Diao Chan plays a major, major role in the Three kingdoms. But she is very contraversal, some people denine her existance, saying there was a songstress but just not one named Diao Chan, she was just made to make the Three Kingdoms Novel more intersting. On no account have I heard of when Diao Chan died.

Here are some legends (all closely realted) I have heard:

After Diao Chan was succesful in getting Lu Bu to kill Dong Zhuo, she marryed Lu Bu and even had childern with him. Later on Lu Bu is killed by Cao Cao and never heard of again.

Diao Chan goes off with Lu Bu, and is brought into Cao Cao's Service. Later when Cao Cao its trying to get Guan Yu to stay in his service, he tells Diao Chan to seduce him. Guan Yu being rightous and knowing her history with Lu Bu and Dong Zhuo, was uneffected by her charm and eventully escaped from Cao Cao.

Another version of that is Diao Chan years later after being Xia Pi, the three oath brothers ( Liu bei, Zhang fei, and Guan Yu) each want her hand in marriage. They fought over her for sometime, then to end the fight between them Guan Yu cuts
her in half.


I'm sure there many more details then what I have shown... So and information is welcomed and wanted.

[Yun]

There is no account of how Diao Chan died because she only exists in the novel, and the novel didn't tell us! In the novel's account of Lu Bu's downfall, only his first wife (nee Yan) is mentioned. Diao Chan simply disappears from the story after Lu Bu kills Dong Zhuo and takes her as a concubine.

Of course, many RTK fans have felt that Diao Chan deserved better than being a concubine of a man like Lu Bu. So there are legends of her marrying Cao Cao or even Guan Yu. The mainland Chinese RTK TV series, produced in the 1990s, used a deliberately vague scene and a song to suggest that Diao Chan "turned into a cloud" while Lu Bu was rushing to fetch her after Dong Zhuo's death. The comic series by Li Zhiqing (which I personally like alot) has a similarly vague sequence where Diao Chan seems about to drown herself in a pond - which cuts to a line saying "that year, the lotus flowers were especially beautiful".

[RollingWave]

Acturally that's wrong yun, diao was meantioned later on, she and the big wife both persuaded Lu Bu against the advice of Chen Gong to set up a double defense by having Chen and Gao Suan station in the main city and Lu Bu in a preimiter city.

Though it didn't tell anything about what happend to her after Lu Bu's death afaik

She wasn't meantioned in real history book at least... though there the fact is that Wang Yun did indeed presuade Lu Bu to defect and iirc there was a meantion of a clash between Lu and Dong over a women but she was not meantioned by name nor connected to Wang .

[Yun]

Rollingwave, it looks like you're right about Diao Chan's brief second appearance in the novel.

Here are the reasons for the falling out between Dong Zhuo and Lu Bu as stated in the Sanguo Zhi:

1. Dong Zhuo had a bad temper and would occasionally throw halberds at Lu Bu.

2. Lu Bu had an affair with one of Dong's serving girls and was afraid of being found out.

Another minor niggle: Diao Chan is a personal name (and more accurately rendered as Diaochan by today's conventions), so it's inappropriate to take Diao as her surname.

[Tyler]

There is no historical evidence of Diao Chan being real. In some chinese records they say there was a serving girl that cuased the rift between servant and master but as to the actual name it was not provided. I beleave there was a serving girl that cuased a rift but I do not know if her name was Diao Chan.

[Sephodwyrm]

But what's wrong with Lu Bu?
I think Lu Bu is the most honest guy mentioned in ROTK. He is not a good guy, but at least he's honest in being a bad guy. He's so predictable and everyone uses this against him. The other thing being that Lu Bu is very sensitive to his wife's suggestions (actually too sensitive). I think as a woman it is better marrying Lu Bu than to marry Liu Bei or Cao Cao.

[Lianbang Diaocha Ju]

Ghost_of_Han, on Jun 9 2004, 05:27 PM, said:

Well Diao Chan plays a major, major role in the Three kingdoms. But she is very contraversal, some people denine her existance, saying there was a songstress but just not one named Diao Chan, she was just made to make the Three Kingdoms Novel more intersting. On no account have I heard of when Diao Chan died.

Here are some legends (all closely realted) I have heard:

After Diao Chan was succesful in getting Lu Bu to kill Dong Zhuo, she marryed Lu Bu and even had childern with him. Later on Lu Bu is killed by Cao Cao and never heard of again.

Diao Chan goes off with Lu Bu, and is brought into Cao Cao's Service. Later when Cao Cao its trying to get Guan Yu to stay in his service, he tells Diao Chan to seduce him. Guan Yu being rightous and knowing her history with Lu Bu and Dong Zhuo, was uneffected by her charm and eventully escaped from Cao Cao.

Another version of that is Diao Chan years later after being Xia Pi, the three oath brothers ( Liu bei, Zhang fei, and Guan Yu) each want her hand in marriage. They fought over her for sometime, then to end the fight between them Guan Yu cuts
her in half.
I'm sure there many more details then what I have shown... So and information is welcomed and wanted.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well, i dunno anything about diao chan's death, but i hope that what i say is of any value to you.

with all due respect, i don't think diao chan played an important role in the 3 kingdoms...

the main problem or conflict of the romance of the three kingdoms was was simply this: "china is divided into 3 kingdoms" anything before that is the intro or exposition. all diao chan does is help get dong zhuo out of the way and then w/e else happens next. and i don't think dong zhuo had nothing to do with the main problem either.

so may i ask why u think diao chan played an important role?

ciao

[Tyler]

Ok Lianbang Diaocha Ju I'll take you up on that.


Purly according to novel you claim Diao Chan is Pre-Three Kingdom Era. Well if it were not for Diao Chan splitting Lu Bu and Dong Zhou would the coalation have succeded? If it failed would Dong Zhou take all of northern china with Wu taking southern china. This would have made Gou Gia's vision of the "Two Kingdom Plan" sucessfull.

[Lianbang Diaocha Ju]

yes, i knew dong zhuo had to be out of the way. i'm sill trying to learn the elements of a story and/or novel and i dont understang everything about everything...yet. so i apologize if i've been rash about asking this Liu Ce. btw, do people consider her a main character?

btw, just call me FBI just as we call gen. zhao yun gz. just to type "Lianbang Diacha Ju" takes more time. i just chose that name to be "chinazationed" i guess.

oh yeah, i wouldn't say i "claimed that diao chan is pre-three kingoms era". i believe when u claim, that means u say something but there is doubt about it. and diao chan's actions took place before the 3 kingdoms which started in 220 A.D.

[Tyler]

That is the correct date but I always thought of the Three Kingdoms Era to start with the Yellow Turban Rebelion (Yellow Scarfs/Way of Peace). Lu Bu was not dumb as most would think of him. He was smart with politics but he was often rash.

[Lianbang Diaocha Ju]

well it also took me sum time to realize what the main conflict was. i figured out what it was after thinking and thinking. btw, would u happen to understand the concepts and elements of a story to at least a satisfacory degree?

cya around!

[Tyler]

Of the Dong Zhao time or the concept of the whole novel.

[Lianbang Diaocha Ju]

well any short story or novel.

stuff like character development, the rising action, the climax, sometimes theres a denoument, the expostion, main characters and minor characters, external and internal conflict etc.

[Tyler]

Of course I do....

[IronMouse]

I don't think Diao Chen existed at all, though someone who did a similar job probably did.

Female spies were pretty common in Ancient China, I believe. Sei Xi was probably the only one with their names recorded down. Spies, especially female ones, have a tendency to slip through the cracks of history, or be killed after their mission is accomplished.