18 replies to this topic

[shawn]

1. I went to Thian Hock Kheng temple with my Malay friend last Saturday, I saw 2 dragons facing each other on the rooftop of the front door and in the middle of them, there is a pearl surrounded by a ring of fire. What is the signifance of this? Fengshui or does it mean anything else?

2. How was the Chinese dragon first formed? I heard that one of tribes in ancient China conquered the rest of the tribes and they combined the animals that represented their tribes into an animal and that was how the first dragon was borned. How true is it?

3. How many claws does dragons have? the dragons on emperors' robes have 5 claws while the ones on the Thian Hock Kheng temple rooftop had 3 claws. Does dragons have also 4 claws? What are the signifance of 3 claws or 5 claws or 4 claws (if dragons had 4 claws)?

Could anyone answer any of my 3 qns? Both my Malay friend and me had tried the search engines to look for info but without much avail. Can anyone help?

[Wei Feng]

3. How many claws does dragons have? the dragons on emperors' robes have 5 claws while the ones on the Thian Hock Kheng temple rooftop had 3 claws. Does dragons have also 4 claws? What are the signifance of 3 claws or 5 claws or 4 claws (if dragons had 4 claws)?

Kind of depends on the dragon
the imprail dragon has 5 clawed
the 4 clawed dragon was used by the commen people and
the 3 clawed dragons were used in asia i think

here is a treat about dragons, i hope this wil answer your question a bit.
http://www.chinahist...p...ic=4704&hl=

Edited by Wei Feng, 01 December 2006 - 02:56 PM.

[shawn]

1. I went to Thian Hock Kheng temple with my Malay friend last Saturday, I saw 2 dragons facing each other on the rooftop of the front door and in the middle of them, there is a pearl surrounded by a ring of fire. What is the signifance of this? Fengshui or does it mean anything else?


Could anyone answer any of my 3 qns? Both my Malay friend and me had tried the search engines to look for info but without much avail. Can anyone help?

Technically, qns 2 and 3 are being answered, but can anyone know the answer to qn 1? I still can't find any info on it. Thanks, I would greatly appreciate it.

[Moon]

Chinese folks in the olden days believe that the presence of the mighty, majestic and magnificent dragon in the home bestows the magical energy of this celestial creature, bringing courage, creativity and capabilities that spell success for residents.

The Imperial Dragon of the Chinese Emperors had 5 claws, the nobility benefited from 4 clawed dragons, lesser folk from the mercantile class settled for 3 clawed dragons, and really ordinary folk made do with 2-clawed creatures. Today, everyone can embrace the 5-clawed dragon.

According to the olden texts, the 9 sons of the dragon are as auspicious as the father. At first glance, every dragon son has typical dragon features, however each of the sons has different attributes and manifestations and their presence brings as much auspicious energy as the father dragon

The dragon has 9 sons:

1st - Bixi (Baxia)
2nd - Chiwen
3rd - Pulao
4th - Bi'An
5th - Taotie
6th - Gongfu
7th - Yazi
8th - Suanni
9th - Quiniu

Chiwen the 2nd son whose short body is often seen guarding rooftops. He is usually depicted with his large mouth grasping the edges of the roof. He enjoys looking at the scenery and his expertise lies in the control of water. With him guarding both ends of the ridges of rooftos, there will never be any danger of fire. Chiwen is usually called upon by palaces and temples to prevent and protect against fires.

[shawn]

Moon, so you are saying that the dragons I saw on the rooftop of the temple was Chiwen the 2nd son right?

1. I went to Thian Hock Kheng temple with my Malay friend last Saturday, I saw 2 dragons facing each other on the rooftop of the front door and in the middle of them, there is a pearl surrounded by a ring of fire. What is the signifance of this? Fengshui or does it mean anything else?

Okay, so could you answer my 1st question? I seriously can't find any information on this on the internet.

[Moon]

I am no Feng Shui expert, my sharing was based on what I have read about Feng Shui and Dragons from several Feng Shui articles, hence at this point of time, I do not have any information on the dragons above Thian Hock Kheng temple.

But I do understand that accordingly to the Chinese Mythology, dragons like to play with fireballs or pearls like in the form of a ball. My guess is that the "Fire Pearl" were meant for the two dragons for play. Just my opinion.

Maybe some other experts in Feng Shui can provide better answers. If I happen to come across any articles regarding the dragons above Thian Hock Kheng temple, I will share again.

[Moon]

Found some information regarding Thian Hock Keng (not Kheng) Temple, I thought I will still share to those who are interested (although nothing was mentioned regarding the dragons on the temple's rooftop):

Thian Hock Keng Temple is one of Singapore's oldest and most majestic Chinese temples. Its history is associated with the early immigrants to Singapore, who proceeded to a 'joss house' to give thanks after making a difficult journey across the China Sea.

The Fujian Community (Hokkiens) established a 'joss house' on the site of this temple. The effort to build the temple was led by a successful Chinese, namely the Philanthropist Tan Tock Seng (1798 to 1850) who was the largest donor. This and other details of the temples history are recorded in granite tablets on the wall inside the temple.

The temple was built in traditional southern Chinese architectural style. The design adheres to the Chinese principle of axial symmetry. Its roof is its crowning glory with curved ridges, elongated eaves with upturned Minnan (Southern Fujian) 'swallow tail' end sweeps and generous ornamentation. It underwent renovations in 1998 with the help of seventy craftsmen from China. Not a single nail was used in its timber joins and arches.

Source: Fun Singapore by Mighty Minds

Dragons figure importantly in popular folk beliefs and Taoism, often serving as a vehicle for immortals. By the 9th century, the Chinese had incorporated the dragon into Buddhist thought and iconography as a protector of the various Buddha and the Buddhist law.

More Information on Dragons from http://www.onmarkpro...ml/dragon.shtml

Mythological animal and cosmological symbol of Chinese origin. The beginnings of dragon myths are obscure, but belief in such a creature predates written history. The image of the reptilian dragon as known today throughout East Asia had achieved its form by the 9th century Tang ink painting. Typically the dragon is covered with scales, has a long serpentine body with a scalloped dorsal fin, claw-like feet and pointed tail. Its face is distinguished by small horns, large eyes with bushy brows, flaring nostrils, long whiskers and sharp teeth. The dragon is associated with water, and is often shown emerging from vapor and clouds to produce rain. Living in the sky it is considered closely related to heaven, and from early times was used as a symbol of imperial power. In addition to serving as a deity of rain and of Heaven, the blue-green dragon (seiryuu 青竜) is the directional symbol of the east, and thus one of the guardian animals of the four directions (shishin 四神). Dragons figure importantly in popular folk beliefs and Taoism, often serving as a vehicle for immortals. By the 9th century, the Chinese had incorporated the dragon into Buddhist thought and iconography as a protector of the various Buddha and the Buddhist law. For example, the character for "dragon (龍)" is often found in temple names. The earliest representations of dragon-like creatures are Shang and Zhou period (ca. 16th - 9th centuries BCE) bronzes and jades bearing abstract animal or monster designs. By the Warring States or Han period (ca. 8th century BC to 3rd century AD), dragons were frequently painted on tomb walls to ward off evil spirits. Beginning in the late Tang period (9th century), the dragon was painted in ink monochrome (suibokuga 水墨画). The so-called "Nine Dragons Hand Scroll" (Kyuuryuuzukan 九竜図巻, 1244, Museum of Fine Arts, Boston) by Chen Rong 陳容 (Jp: Chin You, act. 1235-58) exemplifies ink painting of the subject in the Song period.

Edited by Moon, 02 December 2006 - 10:03 PM.

[kaiselin]

1. I went to Thian Hock Kheng temple with my Malay friend last Saturday, I saw 2 dragons facing each other on the rooftop of the front door and in the middle of them, there is a pearl surrounded by a ring of fire. What is the signifance of this? Fengshui or does it mean anything else?

Shawn,

The pearl surrounded by fire has many different forms but they all boil down to the same basic meaning.
Moon posted that the dragons were Chiwen.

I can agree that there is that aspect, but Chiwen usually is show as a single dragon resembling a fish-like dragon. sometimes as a qilin.
Chiwen is usually placed at the end of the eaves and is some cases is a water spout like the gargoyles on Gothic buildings. this could be the Malay version.
Remember he protects against fire.

In India the flaming pearl is called CINTAMANI most often it is shown looking like a water drop
sometimes single. more often three within each other.
This is often surrounded by either flames or stylalized clouds that look like flames.

some times like a sort of spear head with side grooves making it look like a3 faceted Jewel.
with or without the flames.

It is also know as the THREE JEWELS or just the JEWEL
or the 3 treasures*, 3 flowers, 3 sacred scrolls of Buddhism, the 3 prayers, etc etc.
*note the connection to the 3 gifts of the Magi
The jewel is said to answer all wishes and prayers.
hence the 3 wishes in most European fairy tales and myth.

This is the same jewel /pearl that the dragon holds
This is the Comma design you see in Japanese clan motifs
is the pearl combined with the flame motif
As the Japanese are so prone to do,they simplified the already simplified pearl and flame and the dragon.
Into the ultimate simplification. the comma is sometimes referred to as the DRAGONS CLAW.

It is shown on the back of LUNG TA the WIND HORSE. who brings prayers to the heavens
there is a theory that LUNG TA is what the Tibetans called LONG MA
(which came first is debatable depending on which side you support.)

I found one story that a LONG MA / DRAGON HORSE ( who looks like a scaled horse or Qilin)
rose out of the Yellow river.
LONG MA gave the GREAT YU the HE TU / RIVER PLAN
the HE TU was part of the NINE DIVISIONS OF HONGFAN part of the BOOK OR WRITINGS.
The plan or map showed how to subdue the waters and tame the river.
(This is where the Fengshui comes in)

this map is the magic 9 square. that YU used to lay out the landscape of China
3 times 3 + 9
and on 9 we can do a whole other set of connections

I have a picture of the HE TU , but it is not downloaded yet.

back to the jewel,
In Taoism there is something called the TEN TIEN, ( ten as in pill, tien as in field)
the etymology of Ten refers to Cinnabar*/ red pills
*Note the connection between Cinnabar and Cintamani .
I don't know for sure if there is a linguistic connection for sure, but the words look like they come form the same root word.

The TEN TIEN is made up of:
Ching/generative energy
Qi/Vapor
Shen/ spiritual energy.
These three energies are known as the 3 TRUE FIRES.

other connections to the jewel/pearl : APPLE = KNOWLEDGE as in the serpant and eve.
: MOON - tides - sea- PEARL

Hope this info helped.
It gets a lot deeper but you will have to find someone with more knowledge than me.
I just have been compiling facts while researching a related subject.

[shawn]

Dragons are incharge of what, Humidity, rain, sunshine or wind?

[Wei Feng]

Ulike the european dragons the the Chinese dragons are asosiated with bringers of rain and water, people yoused to pray for rain.

Edited by Wei Feng, 28 February 2007 - 02:11 PM.

[shawn]

What's the explanation behind this, dragons in charge of rain?

[Wei Feng]

This may explain it

The dragon as ruler of weather and water

Main article: Dragon King

Chinese dragons are strongly associated with water in popular belief. They are believed to be the rulers of moving bodies of water, such as waterfalls, rivers, or seas. They can show themselves as water spouts (tornado or twister over water). In this capacity as the rulers of water and weather, the dragon is more anthropomorphic in form, often depicted as a humanoid, dressed in a king's costume, but with a dragon head wearing a king's headdress.

There are four major Dragon Kings, representing each of the four seas: the East Sea (corresponding to the East China Sea), the South Sea (corresponding to the South China Sea), the West Sea (sometimes seen as the Indian Ocean and beyond), and the North Sea (sometimes seen as Lake Baikal).

Because of this association, they are seen as "in charge" of water-related weather phenomenon. In premodern times, many Chinese villages (especially those close to rivers and seas) had temples dedicated to their local "dragon king". In times of drought or flooding, it was customary for the local gentry and government officials to lead the community in offering sacrifices and conducting other religious rites to appease the dragon, either to ask for rain or a cessation thereof.

The King of Wu-Yue in the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period was often known as the "Dragon King" or the "Sea Dragon King" because of his extensive hydro-engineering schemes which "tamed" the seas.

scrouce http://en.wikipedia....ather_and_water

[kaiselin]

Dragons are the bringers of rain, floods, storms. When they go to sleep in the winter that causes the rains to go away until they wake again in the spring. The dragons breath comes out either as a mist that causes clouds and rain or as fire(lightning) . The sound of his voice is like the clanging of copper pots (thunder)
Dragons are most often assoicated with water,
They also are thought to be the earth itself. the dragon can be so big that if you can see the head you can not see the tail.
Dragons are in all the natural elements of the earth. Mountains are said to be coiled dragons or a mountain range is the ridges of the dragons back. WoLong /sleeping dragon mountain is an example of this
===
the stirring of the originating force of the universe; thunder and lighting; a simultaneous release of sound and light; the natural process of plant growth; and any powerful upward-moving force. The dragon, due to its close association with these primal natural forces, is considered the supreme spiritual being and the source of all life.

[Rong Qin Wang]

The Imperial Dragon of the Chinese Emperors had 5 claws, the nobility benefited from 4 clawed dragons, lesser folk from the mercantile class settled for 3 clawed dragons, and really ordinary folk made do with 2-clawed creatures. Today, everyone can embrace the 5-clawed dragon.

According to the olden texts, the 9 sons of the dragon are as auspicious as the father. At first glance, every dragon son has typical dragon features, however each of the sons has different attributes and manifestations and their presence brings as much auspicious energy as the father dragon

Zunjing de Moon,

Thank you so much for all the information you have shared; you have certainly answered some of the questions I have always been wondering; however, you definitely could not stop me from asking more questions. Heheheh!

Yes, I know the five clawed dragons were only reserved for the Chinese Emperors, nobilities were allowed to use four clawed dragons, lesser nobles could use three clawed dragons, while wealthy commoners would have two clawed dragons. Any violations to the rules would no doubt result in receiving harsh penalties.

So, was the fact that the mythical dragon had nine sons why Chinese people have always thought favorably of the number “nine?”

Xie Xie,

[Rong Qin Wang]

Zunjing de China History Forum members,

During my recent visit to Beijing, my tour guide told me the mythical dragon actually consists of seven different parts of seven different animals. However, when I have further raised the question
of which different parts from which different animals, my tour guide only told me to do some research on my own. Well, I have tried to do some research with google, but to no avail. Hence, I am turning toward my last resort; posting this question in CHF, where some very knowledgeable members will have the answers I am eagered to know.

So, can someone please tell me what seven different parts from what seven different animals were assembled together in the creation of the legendary dragon?

Xie Xie,