[Lao Luo]

Hello!
Thanks for this great forum, I found plenty of interesting information here.

Now I am looking for lyrics which I can put to music and I am specially interested in the "Chu ci", mainly Qu Yuan's "Jiu Ge". Unfortunately, although speking fluent, I am illiterate in Chinese, so I always need quite detailed information with/for each poem, means 1: characters, 2: pinyin (including tones), 3: word-to-word-translation, 4: literal translation - and of course any further information is highly welcome.
I would be very greatful if anybody could help me with such material!
As reference for my work please visit http://www.kukumusic.com or http://www.kukumusic.com.cn, there are examples of my previous works (including a song using "Jing Ye Si" for lyrics).

Thank you!
Lao Luo

[General_Zhaoyun]

Qu Yuan 屈原's most famous literary work were the Li Sao 《离骚》、Jiu Zhang 《九章》、Tian Wen《天问》.

The poetry style were known as Chu Ci 楚辞 (Diction of Chu), primarily pioneered by Qu Yuan in Chu state (during Spring/autumn period). The term "Chu Ci" generally refers to an anthology/compilation of poetry published by Liu Xiang 刘向 of Western Han dynasty.

Regarding your mentioned "Jiu Ge 九歌" (nine songs), it was a song said to be passed down from pre-ancient times and was edited by Qu Yuan. There were altogether 11 sections as follow:

1. Dong Huang Tai Yi 《东皇太一》 [The celestial god in the east]

2. Yun Zhong Jun 《云中君》[the ruler within the cloud]

3. Xiang Jun 《湘君》 [The ruler at Xiang]

4. Xiang Fu Ren 《湘夫人》[The lady of Xiang]

5. Da Si Min 《大司命》 [The Mandate of Life-span God]

6. Sao Si Min 《少司命》 [The Mandate of Child-Life Span Goddess]

7. Dong Jun 《东君》 [The ruler in the east]

8. He Bo 《河伯》 [The god of Yellow River]

9. Shan Gui 《山鬼》 [Mountain Ghost]

10. Guo Sang 《国殇》 [Weeping of Nation]

11. Li Hun 《礼魂》。 [The soul of rites]

The chinese info can be found at http://post.baidu.com/f?kz=18947438

[P.S. I'll try to translate them if I have the free time]

[Lao Luo]

Thanks General.

Found a good source for the Chinese lyrics online: http://faculty.virgi...ese_literature/

As for translations: in Beijing I could only find a translation by Sun Da-Yu, published by Shanghai Foreign Language Education Press. Unfortunately with an incredible amount of mistakes. Would like to see the translation by David Hawkes but could not find it here in Beijing.

[fireball]

Title: 九歌•国殇
jiu3 ge – guo2 shang
Nine Songs - National Mourning

Time: Warring States period
Author: Qu Yuan (屈原 qu yUan2)
Translated by: fireball
Content:

操吴戈兮披犀甲，车错毂兮短兵接。
cao1 wu2 ge1 xi1 pi1 xi1 jia3, che1 cuo4 gu3 xi1 duan3 bing1 jie1.
Hold Wu’s halberd ah wearing Rhino’s armor, chariots mingled hub-of-wheels ah short weapons contacted.
The soldiers are holding Wu’s halberd and wearing Rhino’s armor; the chariots’ hubs are mingled while the short weapons are engaged.

旌蔽日兮敌若云，矢交坠兮士争先。
jing1 bi4 ri4 xi1 di2 ruo4 yun2, shi3 jiao1 zhui4 xi1 shi4 zheng1 xian1.
Flags cover Sun ah enemies like clouds, arrows crossing falling ah soldiers compete forward.
The flags cover the Sun, and the enemies are like clouds; arrows crossing each other while falling down from the sky, and the soldiers compete to march forward.

凌余阵兮躐余行，左骖殪兮右刃伤。
ling2 yu2 zhen4 xi1 lie4 yu2 hang2, zuo3 can1 yi4 xi1 you4 ren4 shang1.
Invade my camp ah step on my rows, left horse died ah right knife wounded.
(The soldiers said,) "The enemies invade our camp and run over our battle formation. The chariots’ left horse is dead, and the right horse is stabbed."

霾两轮兮絷四马，援玉枹兮击鸣鼓。
mai2 liang3 lun2 xi1 zhi2 si4 ma3, yUan2 yu4 fu4 xi1 ji2 ming2 gu3.
Buried two wheels ah tied-up four horses, took jade drum-sticks ah stroke out-loud the drum.
(The soldiers' said,) "With 2 of the chariot’s wheels buried in the ground and the four horses tied up, I or we pick up the jade drum sticks and hitting the battle drum aloud."

天时怼兮威灵怒，严杀尽兮弃原壄。
tian1 shi2 dui4 xi1 wei1 ling2 nu4, yan2 sha1 jing4 xi1 qi4 yUan2 yie3.
Heaven’s time resent ah powerful spirits angry, cruelly killed all ah abandoned wild plains.
The Heaven at this time feels resentful, and the powerful spirits are angry. Soldiers are cruelly killed off, and their bodies are abandoned in the wilderness.

出不入兮往不反，平原忽兮路超远。
chu1 bu4 ru4 xi1 wang3 bu4 fan3, ping2 yUan2 hu1 xi1 lu4 chao1 yUan3.
Leave not come-in ah going not coming-back, flat land vast ah road very far.
(The soldiers said,) “When we left, we do not expect to come back. (In front of us), the plain is vast and road is very far.”

带长剑兮挟秦弓，首身离兮心不惩.
dai4 chang2 jian4 xi1 xia2 qin2 gong1, shou3 shen1 li2 xi1 xin1 bu4 cheng2.
Bringing long sword ah carrying Qin’s bows, head body separated ah heart without regrets.
(The soldiers said,) “We brought the long swords and carried Qin’s bows. Even if our heads and our bodies are separated, we would not feel regret.”

诚既勇兮又以武，终刚强兮不可凌。
cheng2 ji4 yong3 xi1 you4 yi3 wu3, zhong1 gang1 qiang2 xi1 bu4 ke3 ling2.
Faithful and brave ah also have martial skills, at-the-end steel strong ah wasn’t able conquer.
(The soldiers) are faithful and brave as well as having martial skills. At the end, they are strong like steels and couldn’t be conquered.

身既死兮神以灵，子魂魄兮为鬼雄。
shen1 ji4 si3 xi1 shen2 yi3 ling2, zi3 hun2 po4 xi1 wei2 gui3 xiong2.
Body already dead ah divine with spirit, your spirit vigor ah to-be ghost hero.
The soldiers’ bodies are dead, but their spirits live forever. (To the soldiers) “Your spirits would be the heroes among the ghosts.”

More info:

These poems in Jiu Ge (Nine Songs) are actually poems to be sang or chanted (with accompany dances) during sacrifices to various gods and spirits in the ancient state of Chu during the Warring States period or even earlier. They were probably collected and edited by Qu Yuan. When these songs were sung, they were sung by either priest or priestess alone or sometimes with other priests and priestesses. If the deity is a male, the priestess would sing the song. If the deity is female, the priest would sing the song. For the National Mourning, I am not sure whether this rule would follow or not because the spirits were dead soldiers and not gods -- Therefore, they don't need to have a different gender person to entice the gods to come. In addition, the wordings are more neutral than the others and should be able to be sung by either a priest or a priestess with the priests singing the dead soldiers' parts.

This "National Mourning" is my favorite among the Nine Songs of Qu Yuan and the only one of them I have memorized. (IMO) There are a few lines in this song that were supposed to be sung by priests who pretended to be the dead soldiers they were sacrificing to. Therefore, I translated it like that.

This post has been edited by fireball: 28 February 2008 - 05:13 AM

[Seclusive]

屈原：九歌·湘夫人
The Lady of the Xiang

译者未知

帝子降兮北渚 目眇眇兮愁予
袅袅兮秋风 洞庭波兮木叶下
白薠兮骋望 与佳期兮夕张
鸟萃兮蘋中 罾何为兮木上
沅有芷兮澧有兰 思公子兮未敢言
荒忽兮远望 观流水兮潺湲
麋何食兮庭中 蛟何为兮水裔
朝驰余马兮江皋 夕济兮西澨
闻佳人兮召予 将腾驾兮偕逝
筑室兮水中 葺之兮荷盖
荪壁兮紫坛 匊芳椒兮成堂
桂栋兮兰橑 辛夷楣兮药房
罔薜荔兮为帷 薜蕙櫋兮既张
白玉兮为镇 疏石兰兮为芳
芷葺兮荷屋 缭之兮杜衡
合百草兮实庭 建芳馨兮庑门
九嶷缤兮并迎 灵之来兮如云
捐余袂兮江中 遗余褋兮澧浦
搴汀洲兮杜若 将以遗兮远者
时不可兮骤得 聊逍遥兮容与

To the northern bank descends the Lady Goddess;
Sombre and wistful the expression in her eyes.
Sighing softly the autumn breeze;
Leavea fall on the ripples of Dongting Lake.
Amidst the white sedge, I anxiously keep watch
For my love who will come when the sun sets.
Why are the birds flocking in the reeds?
Why are the nets hanging in the trees?
Angelicas by the Yuan and orchids by the Li.
I long for my love bu dare not speak my thoughts.
My heart is trembling as I gaze afar
Over the waters which are flowing fast.
Why are the deer browsing in the courtyard?
Why are the dragons cleaving to the bank?
At dawn I ride my horses by the river;
At dusk I cross the current to the western bank.
I shall hear my loved one when he summons me;
Urging my horses I shall speed to his side.
In the river I shall build him a home;
It will have a roof made of lotus leaves,
Iris walls and purple shells for a room.
A hall of fragrant peppers,
Cassia beams and rafters of magnolia,
Jasmine lintels, an arbour of peonies,
And fig-leaves woven into curtains,
Meliotus overhead for a shelter.
White jade stones securing mats,
A screen scented with rock-orchids,
A room of lotus decked with vetch,
And fresh azalea sprigs entwined.
A courtyard filled with wondrous flowers,
Whose fragrance rare assail the gates.
The mountain spirits will greet my love,
Clustering round like clouds.
I dip my sleeve into the waters;
Wash my lapel by the shore of Li.
I pick seeet pollia on an islet,
For my loved one far away.
So rare the precious time we share;
Yet all I can do is wander and wait.

This post has been edited by Seclusive: 27 February 2008 - 06:30 AM

[Seclusive]

九歌·山鬼

V1：译者未知；V2：L. Cranmer-Byng 译；V3：David Hawkes 译

V1: The Mountain Spirit
V2: The Land of Exile
V3: The Mountain Spirit (Shan gui)

若有人兮山之阿
被薜荔兮带女箩
既含睇兮又宜笑
子慕予兮善窈窕

乘赤豹兮从文狸
辛夷车兮结桂旗
被石兰兮带杜衡
折芳馨兮遗所思

余处幽篁兮终不见天
路险难兮独后来
表独立兮山之上
云容容兮而在下

杳冥冥兮羌昼晦
东风飘兮神灵雨
留灵修兮憺忘归
岁既晏兮孰华予

采三秀兮于山间
石磊磊兮葛蔓蔓
怨公子兮怅忘归
君思我兮不得闲

山中人兮芳杜若
饮石泉兮荫松柏
君思我兮然疑作

雷填填兮雨冥冥
猿啾啾兮狖夜鸣
风飒飒兮木萧萧
思公子兮徒离忧

V1: There seem to be a man in the deep mountain,
Clad in creeping vine and girded with ivy,
With a charming look and a becoming smile.
"Do you admire me for my lovely form?"

She rides a red leopard - striped lynxes follwing behind -
Her chariot of magnolia arrayed with banners of cassia,
Her cloak made of orchids and her girdle of azalea,
Calling sweet flowers for those dear in her heart.

The road hither is steep and dangerous; I arrive alone and late.
Alone I stand on the mountain top
While the clouds gather beneath me.

"All gloomy and dark is the day;
The east wind drifts and god sends down rain.
Waiting for the divine one, I forget to go home.
The year is late. Who will now bedeck me?

"I pluck the larkspur on the mountain side,
The rocks are craggy; and the vines tangled.
Complaining of the young lord, sadly I forget to go home.
You, my lord, are thinking of me; but you have no time,"

The man in the mountain, fragrant with sweet herb,
Drinks from the rocky spring, shaded by pines and firs.
"You, my lord, are thinking of me, but then you hesitate."

The thunder rumbles and the rain darkens;
The gibbons mourn, howling all the night;
The wind whistles and the trees are bare.
"I am thing of the young lord; I sorrow in vain."

V2: Methinks there's a genius
Roams in the mountains,
Girdled with ivy
And robed in wisteria,
Lips ever smiling,
Of noble demeanour,
Driving the yellow pard,
Tiger-attended,
Couched in a chariot
With banners of cassia,
Cloaked with the orchid,
And crowned with azaleas;
Culling the perfume
Of sweet flowers, he leaves
In the heart a dream-blossom,
Memory haunting.
But dark is the forest
Where now is my dwelling,
Never the light of day
Reaches its shadow.
Thither a perilous
Pathway meanders.
Lonely I stand
On the lonelier hill-top,
Cloudland beneath me
And cloudland around me.
Softly the wind bloweth,
Softly the rain falls,
Joy like a mist blots
The thoughts of my home out;
There none would honour me,
Fallen from honours.
I gather the larkspur
Over the hillside,
Blown mid the chaos
Of boulder and bellbine;
Hating the tyrant
Who made me an outcast,
Who of his leisure
Now spares me no moment:
Drinking the mountain spring,
Shading at noon-day
Under the cypress
My limbs from the sun glare.
What though he summon me
Back to his palace,
I cannot fall
To the level of princes.
Now rolls the thunder deep,
Down the cloud valley,
And the gibbons around me
Howl in the long night.
The gale through the moaning trees
Fitfully rushes.
Lonely and sleepless
I think of my thankless
Master, and vainly would
Cradle my sorrow.

V3: There seems to be someone in the fold of the mountain
In a coat of fig-leaves with a rabbit-floss girdle,
With eyes that hold laughter and a smile of pearly brightness:
‘Lady, your allurements show that you desire me.’
Driving tawny leopards, leading the striped lynxes;
A car of lily-magnolia with banner of woven cassia;
Her cloak of stone-orchids, her belt of asarum:
She gathers sweet scents to give to one she loves.
‘I am in the dense bamboo grove, which never sees the sunlight,
So steep and hard the way was, therefore I am late.’
Solitary she stands, upon the mountain’s summit:
The clouds’ dense masses begin below her.
From a place of gloomy shadow, dark even in the daytime,
When the east wind blows up, the goddess sends down her showers.
Dallying with the Fair One, I forget about returning.
What flowers can I deck myself with, so late in the year?
I shall pluck the thrice-flowering herb among the mountains,
Where the arrowroot spreads creeping over the piled-up boulders.
Sorrowing for my lady, I forget that I must go.
My lady thinks of me, but she has no time to come.
The lady of the mountain is fragrant with pollia;
She drinks from the rocky spring and shelters beneath the pine trees.
My lady thinks of me, but she holds back, uncertain.
The thunder rumbles; rain darkens the sky:
The monkeys chatter; apes scream in the night:
The wind soughs sadly and the trees rustle.
I think of my lady and stand alone in sadness.

****************

Ch'u Yuan (Fourth Century, B.C.)

A loyal minister to the feudal Prince of Ch`u, towards the close of the Chou dynasty. His master having, through disregard of his counsel, been captured by the Ch`in State, Ch`u Yuan sank into disfavour with his sons, and retired to the hills, where he wrote his famous `Li Sao', of which the following is one of the songs. He eventually drowned himself in the river Mi-Lo, and in spite of the search made for his body, it was never found. The Dragon-boat Festival, held on the fifth day of the fifth moon, was founded in his honour.

This post has been edited by Seclusive: 27 February 2008 - 06:06 AM

[Seclusive]

屈原：九歌·东君

The Lord of the East (Dong jun)
(Chu ci, or “Songs of the South,” c. 3rd c. BCE)

Stephen Owen 译

暾将出兮东方 照吾槛兮扶桑
抚余马兮安驱 夜皎皎兮既明
驾龙辀兮乘雷 载云旗兮委蛇
长太息兮将上 心低佪兮顾怀
羌声色兮娱人 观者憺兮忘归
絙瑟兮交鼓 箫锺兮瑶虡
鸣篪兮吹竽 思灵保兮贤姱
翾飞兮翠曾 展诗兮会舞
应律兮合节 灵之来兮蔽日
青云衣兮白霓裳 举长矢兮射天狼
操余弧兮反沦降 援北斗兮酌桂浆
撰余辔兮高驰翔 杳冥冥兮以东行

“I glow coming forth in the eastlands,
I shine on my porch by the tree Fu-sang.
then slapping my steeds to a steady gallop,
the night is lit up, and the day breaks.
My dragon team hitched, I ride on the thunder,
bearing banners of cloud streaming behind.
But I heave a great sigh on the point of ascending;
there the heart falters, I look back with care:
for the sounds and beauty so give a man joy
those who watch are transfixed and forget to go.
Harps tightly strung, the drums alternating,
bells being rung, chime frames shaking,
fifes sing out, pipes are blown;
those who act holy ones, wholesome and comely,
hover here winging, suddenly mount,
reciting the lyrics joining the dance.
Catching the pitch, matching the rhythms,
the holy ones come, they cover the sun.
In gown of green cloud and white rainbow mantle,
I raise the long arrow, I shoot Heaven’s Wolf,
with yew-bow in hand I now sink back under,
and seize the North Dipper to pour out cinnamon wine,
then clutching my reins, I rush soaring high,
off far through darkness voyaging east.”

[李正龍]

Qingwen..
is this Qu Yuan that throw himself to the river..??
and the main figure of the Duan Wu Jie (Dragon Boat Festival)..??

[fireball]

李正龍, on Feb 28 2008, 01:54 AM, said:

Qingwen..
is this Qu Yuan that throw himself to the river..??
and the main figure of the Duan Wu Jie (Dragon Boat Festival)..??

Yes. He was the one. He was also one of the royal princes of Chu as well as a priest for the Royal family of Chu according to his own poems. He had recorded/wrote a lot of poems that were used in the Shamanistic ceremonies in kingdom of Chu's sacrificial ceremonies. These sets of songs, Nine Songs, were basically these Chu's ceremonial songs in the sacrificial ceremonies. The priests and/or the priestesses would dance and sing with these songs during the ceremonies.

Also, Zongzi, the Chinese leaf wrapped rice dish, was supposed to have been invented to sacrifice to Qu Yuan's spirit in the river and to make sure an evil dragon in the river won't eat the food people had sent into the river for Qu Yuan. Uh... It is also one of my favorite Chinese food. If I were at that river, I think I would be that evil dragon!!!

This post has been edited by fireball: 28 February 2008 - 05:15 AM

[李正龍]

fireball, on Feb 28 2008, 06:10 PM, said:

Yes. He was the one. He was also one of the royal princes of Chu as well as a priest for the Royal family of Chu according to his own poems. He had recorded/wrote a lot of poems that were used in the Shamanistic ceremonies in kingdom of Chu's sacrificial ceremonies. These sets of songs, Nine Songs, were basically these Chu's ceremonial songs in the sacrificial ceremonies. The priests and/or the priestesses would dance and sing with these songs during the ceremonies.

Also, Zongzi, the Chinese leaf wrapped rice dish, was supposed to have been invented to sacrifice to Qu Yuan's spirit in the river and to make sure an evil dragon in the river won't eat the food people had sent into the river for Qu Yuan. Uh... It is also one of my favorite Chinese food. If I were at that river, I think I would be that evil dragon!!!

oooow..
in one version of chinese festivals origin i've read..
Zongzi (or known as Bakcang in indonesia) was made for the fish, so the Qu Yuan's body won't get bite and can be buried in a perfect condition..

and Out Of The Topic..
the first kind of Zongzi just made by glutenous rice..
no additional menu inserted..

okay okay..
let's go back to the topic..
ehemmm (throat-clearing cough)..

so, by this recorded song of Qu Yuan..
it's mean that Chu was a country with a huge paradigm of spirituality..??

i thought Shamanistic in chinese culture connected with esoteric Dao preach..

[fireball]

Shamanism has always been around any nation and any people since (probably) the start of human history. The theology of Dao and such was just one of the explanations for the spirituality the ancient Chinese experienced. Certain social scientists claimed that there were more imagination and varieties of gods and spirits and demons in the South part of China because there are more varieties of shapes of lands, creatures, plants, weathers, waters, etc., in the South than in the Central plain of China. The state (or kingdom) of Chu was located in such areas, so there were a lot of interesting ceremonies and shamanistic beliefs and activities in Chu. However, there might be people argue that the reason Chu people seemed to have more interesting shamonistic or spritual materials was primarily because of Qu Yuan and his famous Nine Songs as well as a few other famous Chu poets who had followed Qu Yuan's examples. In another words, if the other states (or kingdoms) had poets as great as Qu Yuan and wrote poems about their shamanistic practices, their legends and ceremonies would have been passed down the generations.

Also, yes, I have heard of the version that people threw in the Zongzi so that the fish won't eat Qu Yuan's body. I have read the custom of Dragon Boat and Zongzi actually predate Qu Yuan, but after his death, Chinese started saying both of these customs were for remembering Qu Yuan and his death.

[李正龍]

feichang ganxie for your elaboration..
fireball jiejie.. ^p^

[fireball]

bu2 ke4 qi4! 正龍 younger brother.

[mariusj]

fireball, on Feb 29 2008, 01:10 AM, said:

Shamanism has always been around any nation and any people since (probably) the start of human history.

Question.
I know I read a book somewhere [or I think History Channel?] that ancient people worshiped snake because they are frightening for such small a creature. I think that constitutes as being shamanism. But why do many different racial groups worship animals that are harmless? Like, Cows or, other .... creatures I can't think of right now?

Is it because their life depend heavily on these?