[Borjigin Ayurbarwada]

"So your definition of colony is every one has to be driven out? Then I guess India was not a British colony then. Or there was never any colony in history, or perhaps they weren't."

No, thats actually your definition, my point is that driving people out is not conlonization.


"Your model is still incorrect! It does not reflect the fact that the minorities came from somewhere else and ruled the majority with force."

The "Minority" ruled over the Majority is no different than what they did to themselves, could you find me an article in the Taiwanese constituion that states these "Majority" are treated any less?

"If they are all Han and so "similar" like you said, howcome they could tell each other apart? XD

Think about it."

A Cantonese could tell difference between a person from Beijing. Poor defense. And I don't see what your proving? Are you agreeing with that Taiwanese re mainly Han or not? If not then why did you say you agreed before?


"The Ping-Pu aboriginals went through 3 colonialist. Not counting the Qing government, just the Japanese and the Nationalist is a spand over 100 years. And to answer your question, yes, even the Gao Shan aboriginals' language are almost at extinction after little more than 50 years of Nationalist rule. If the green movement didn't catch on, and started the all preservation, it would have died in the near future. Most of Taiwanese baseball players are aboriginals. Why don't you look in to see how many of them can still speak their mother language? Less than 1%."

Sorry but you are not in the slightest bit convincing, if prior to the Nationalists, the majority of the people there are aboriginal, then there is no way that less than 1% of the people today remember, especially if most of the taiwanese have more aboriginal blood than Han as you claim. Its not demographically possible. There aren't any instances of that in history, Mongols and Tibetans still remember their language after over 50 years, in fact its still their mother tongue, even those heavily snicized mongol could still understand mongolian perfectly and speak too.


"hahaha, I love that comment. So China just treat everyone equally bad."

Or equally well, since the communism concept of equal distribution and unlavish clothing and material possession is just what Buddha originally wanted.


"Well, whether China treated Tibetans worse than their other conquest is obvious. Forcing Buddhist monks to kill other monks is not something the PRC army did to the Han monks. "

Well they do say that impudence is the B****** of ignorance. Whats obvious IS clear, and that Tibetans were far better off than the Hans, Han monastery during the cultural revolution were virtually wiped out. Monks were forced to marry the Nuns and get put to work. And what nonsense did your information of forcing Monks to kill other Monks came from is beyond me, but its certainly total BS without historical backing. Every monastery that you see today in China have suffered from the revolution and most of them are actually later rebuilt. So poor argument and a great display of utter ignorance, but why doesn't that surprise me?
And have you forget that these brutal PLA are ethnic Tibetans themselves and not Hans? You can ask the opressed themselves!

[Sephodwyrm]

Actually, the same can be said of most of the minorities in this world. They're losing their language to the dominant culture.

Whether China treats everyone equally bad or good is not for certain. Taiwan went through similar era of development. If you are laughing at China, please laugh at yourself first.

[hansioux]

warhead, on Jan 26 2005, 04:32 PM, said:

No, thats actually your definition, my point is that driving people out is not conlonization.

That's funny, I never said they were driven out XD

warhead, on Jan 26 2005, 04:32 PM, said:

The "Minority" ruled over the Majority is no different than what they did to themselves, could you find me an article in the Taiwanese constituion that states these "Majority" are treated any less?

Yes, they were denied to work in the government for at least 30 years. They were massacared, faced police brutality. It's pretty bad. Please read related subjects such as 228 and 白色恐怖.

warhead, on Jan 26 2005, 04:32 PM, said:

A Cantonese could tell difference between a person from Beijing. Poor defense. And I don't see what your proving? Are you agreeing with that Taiwanese re mainly Han or not? If not then why did you say you agreed before?

My point is just because they are Han, doesn't mean they are the same people that are willing to be colonized. Such as just because people are a Native American, doesn't make them the same.

warhead, on Jan 26 2005, 04:32 PM, said:

Sorry but you are not in the slightest bit convincing, if prior to the Nationalists, the majority of the people there are aboriginal, then there is no way that less than 1% of the people today remember, especially if most of the taiwanese have more aboriginal blood than Han as you claim. Its not demographically possible. There aren't any instances of that in history, Mongols and Tibetans still remember their language after over 50 years, in fact its still their mother tongue, even those heavily snicized mongol could still understand mongolian perfectly and speak too.

That is because the word "aboriginal" that is used to count the population of a ethnic group is a "POLITICAL TERM". It excludes the Pin-pu aboriginals from in its definition. If you want to count aboriginal because they were "aboriginal" which means people that lived on Taiwan before the Han colonization, the aboriginals would be the majority. The Taiwanese government are now adding new groups of aboriginals, Kavalan of the Pinpu tribe is one of the newly added "politically defined" aboriginal groups.

warhead, on Jan 26 2005, 04:32 PM, said:

Or equally well, since the communism concept of equal distribution and unlavish clothing and material possession is just what Buddha originally wanted. 

Well they do say that impudence is the B****** of ignorance. Whats obvious IS clear, and that Tibetans were far better off than the Hans, Han monastery during the cultural revolution were virtually wiped out. Monks were forced to marry the Nuns and get put to work. And what nonsense did your information of forcing Monks to kill other Monks came from is beyond me, but its certainly total BS without historical backing. Every monastery that you see today in China have suffered from the revolution and most of them are actually later rebuilt. So poor argument and a great display of utter ignorance, but why doesn't that surprise me?
And have you forget that these brutal PLA are ethnic Tibetans themselves and not Hans? You can ask the opressed themselves!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Use all the rudeness you want. *shrug* Just because this governemnt treats everyone badly, doesn't make it ok to oppress a group of people.

What I said has countless Tibetan refugee's backing. It also has a few pictures that I saw. But I can not find it by google. It's in a book about the Tibetan refugees.

By calling it BS doesn't make it anymore BS. Prove it.

[Borjigin Ayurbarwada]

"Use all the rudeness you want. *shrug* Just because this governemnt treats everyone badly, doesn't make it ok to oppress a group of people."

Thanks for telling me to use rudensess all I want because thats precisely what I'm doing, great observation. Like your government havent opressed people? All governments have made mistakes, your argument is pointless and immature. Its what happen now that matters.
And my point is not how they are treated, is that your emphasize on Tibetans as a minority is treated worse than Han is wrong, admit it.

"What I said has countless Tibetan refugee's backing. It also has a few pictures that I saw. But I can not find it by google. It's in a book about the Tibetan refugees."

Your point? Refugges to richer countries are common with all people not just Tibetans nor people in China. There are far more Han refugees in fact.

"By calling it BS doesn't make it anymore BS. Prove it. "

You are the one that needs to prove your BS, I can't prove something imaginery just like no one can prove the existence of God, you brought up that Tibetans are treated worse, I've already proved they are not above, so Proven!

[Borjigin Ayurbarwada]

"That's funny, I never said they were driven out XD"

Then you have some brain issues:
"1. Mass immigration and drive the original inhabitants off their land."





"Yes, they were denied to work in the government for at least 30 years. They were massacared, faced police brutality. It's pretty bad. Please read related subjects such as 228 and 白色恐怖."

I know the white terror, and no it still doesn't prove anything, it was against political separation not specific minority groups, do better.






"My point is just because they are Han, doesn't mean they are the same people that are willing to be colonized. Such as just because people are a Native American, doesn't make them the same."

My point is that they are Han, nothing more.





"That is because the word "aboriginal" that is used to count the population of a ethnic group is a "POLITICAL TERM". It excludes the Pin-pu aboriginals from in its definition. If you want to count aboriginal because they were "aboriginal" which means people that lived on Taiwan before the Han colonization, the aboriginals would be the majority. The Taiwanese government are now adding new groups of aboriginals, Kavalan of the Pinpu tribe is one of the newly added "politically defined" aboriginal groups."

You haven't answered my reply in the slightest, and thats assimilation in just 30 years is impossible, stop diverting into other topics, in fact I don't see what that has anything to do with my argument at all, which is that these aboriginal minorities are assimilated in just 30 years by the minority from Mainland. No its demographically inmpoissible, Majority groups couldn't possibly assimilate minority groups in just a few decades, you can study that one your own.

[hansioux]

warhead, on Jan 28 2005, 02:53 PM, said:

Then you have some brain issues:
"1. Mass immigration and drive the original inhabitants off their land."

The quote with number was coming from place where I was discussing what other people's definition of colonization is, not what happened to the aboriginals in Taiwan. Read the whole passage, don't just take a sentence apart and assume the meaning of the passage.

warhead, on Jan 28 2005, 02:53 PM, said:

I know the white terror, and no it still doesn't prove anything, it was against political separation not specific minority groups, do better.

White terror is not the same thing as 228. And if you look into the stats on white terror, you'd see the nationalists are far less likely to be oppressed for white terror. And you need to read up on people like "樂信瓦旦". The first Seediq doctor who became 省議員 and was accussed of being a Communist spy, because he supported for the government to return lands to the aboriginals.

warhead, on Jan 28 2005, 02:53 PM, said:

My point is that they are Han, nothing more.

So?

warhead, on Jan 28 2005, 02:53 PM, said:

You haven't answered my reply in the slightest, and thats assimilation in just 30 years is impossible, stop diverting into other topics, in fact I don't see what that has anything to do with my argument at all, which is that these aboriginal minorities are assimilated in just 30 years by the minority from Mainland. No its demographically inmpoissible, Majority groups couldn't possibly assimilate minority groups in just a few decades, you can study that one your own.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't see how i diverted the topic. Perhaps you don't understand the real situation, therefore when I tell you the fact that you don't want to hear, you think I am not replying to you. As I said, it was not 30 years. The Chinese colonization did not start when the Nationalist got there. And those aboriginals affected by the Nationalist colonization are already similated in 30 years.

[Sephodwyrm]

Actually, everyone was a communist spy if they're against the government. It has nothing to do with your Seediq background. More people of Han ethnicity (waishengren included) were incarcerated as a result of such suspicions.

[Borjigin Ayurbarwada]

"The quote with number was coming from place where I was discussing what other people's definition of colonization is, not what happened to the aboriginals in Taiwan. Read the whole passage, don't just take a sentence apart and assume the meaning of the passage."

And I said that the definition is wrong. Whats your problem?


"White terror is not the same thing as 228. And if you look into the stats on white terror, you'd see the nationalists are far less likely to be oppressed for white terror. And you need to read up on people like "樂信瓦旦". The first Seediq doctor who became 省議員 and was accussed of being a Communist spy, because he supported for the government to return lands to the aboriginals."

Again you are diverting, we are talking about ethnic cleasing not political, get that straight.

"So?"

So I presented a fact.

[Borjigin Ayurbarwada]

"I don't see how i diverted the topic. Perhaps you don't understand the real situation, therefore when I tell you the fact that you don't want to hear, you think I am not replying to you. As I said, it was not 30 years. The Chinese colonization did not start when the Nationalist got there. And those aboriginals affected by the Nationalist colonization are already similated in 30 years. "

You should read back about what you sad, I asked you to prove that the people were forced to give up their culture, you gave the example of nationalists, obviously if most people were already Han in culture before the nationalists then its not forced upon them, you haven't gave any solid example about it yet.

[Kongmun]

[quote name='hansioux' date='Jan 6 2005, 11:38 AM']
Well, this is my post from AE, just thought people might be interested in the Asain History too.

Background on Seediq:

During the Japanese colonial times, the Japanese anthropologists classified Seediq into the Altayal Group. However, the Japanese were wrong. In fact, though these two Groups lived right next to each other, with similar language customs and ceremonies. Seediq only shares 47% of common words with the Altayal. For example the word for people in Seediq is… hmm Seediq. On the other hand the word for people in Atayal is… wow… Altayal.

Seediq, like most Austronesian groups, was a small scale farming and hunter gatherer society up until the WuShia rebellion. The male hunts and plants highland rice while female weave and plants yams. They practice slash and burn farming technique on farming. Unlike some Taiwanese aboriginals, Seediq is a matriarchal male society. A Seediq tribe has a male meeting hut where all the war decisions are made. The male tribal leader probably was created after the Han Chinese's immigration in Qing dynasty, due to Qing's request of dealing with one leader who can make all decisions. In general, Seediq features very typical Austronesian traits.

Seediq worships the Utux, which means spirits of ancestors. Seediq believes that the rainbow, hakaw utux, is the bridge that leads to where the spirits of their ancestors are. After death if they earned the passage, they will get to reunite with their ancestors on the other side. Like most Austronesian tribes they fallow a set of taboos called gaya. It is the rules passed down by the ancestors. And following the gaya means everything to the Seediq. The gaya instructs from rules of social conduct, agriculture, hunting season to war behavior and ceremonies.

The creation legend of the Seediq is very interesting. Seediq lives on mountains over 2500 meters above sea level. They believe the people were born out of a strange tower shaped white rock, Rmdax tasing. This white stone is visible from all around their area, and it guides them in the deep vegetation on hunting trips. It was said that a tree grew on this giant white rock, and one day lightening struck the tree and rock. An older sister and a younger brother were born out of the tree and white rock. They were the first people. After they grew up, the sister was worried that there no other people to populate. So she suggested marrying her brother. The younger brother rejected because brother and sisters shouldn't marry. Finally the sister told the brother the she has found a girl for him. The girl would be waiting under the tree tomorrow. Then she tattooed her face and waited under the tree. The brother was unable to recognize his sister and they got married and became the ancestor of the Seediq.

Seediq and the Altayal are the only two aboriginal groups in Taiwan that tattoos their face. The tattoo has to be earned. It is both a spiritual and social practice. A male can only earn his tattoo after he cuts off his first head of the enemy. A woman can only earn her tattoo after she gained the skill of weaving. Man and woman can not get married unless they are tattooed. For that reason, this practice is very social. Getting tattooed is the single most important event in a Seediq's lifetime. Also, people without tattoos can not cross the rainbow bridge after death which made the tattoo a spiritual matter. This traditional practice was forbidden during the Japanese colonization, which became a serious issue which also tied to another practice mentioned below. Without the tattoo, marrying would be against the gaya. Gaya is like bibble to the Seediq back in those times.

All the aboriginals in Taiwan have the practice of cutting the enemy's head off. Sometimes this is done during war. But most of the time, this is done for the man to gain respect or wash away shame that has happened to his family. For example if some Seediq's sister is abandoned by her husband, then this Seediq would have to go out and cut someone's head off to redeem his family. When this is successful, the head would be brought back to the village and a ceremony of offering the head to the Ancestral Spirits would be held. Without this important ceremony, the ancestral spirit would not communicate with the living and that would bring disasters. This practice for obvious reasons was forbidden by the Japanese as well. However this practice is what the Seediq male must accomplish to earn his tattoo and get married. You see the dilemma.

WuShia is by no means the only, the first, or the last armed conflict between the Seediq people and the Japanese. Japnese rule was very cruel and most part plain disrespectful of Seediq's culture. They employed such tricks as bribing the aboriginals to fight each other, and the price is they get to hold a Head Ceremony with the heads from the battle. If anyone's interested I'll find time to write about the WuShia incident.

Since the Chinese nationalist colonized Taiwan at the end of WW2, they weren't at all interested in studying the aboriginal culture and languages like the Japanese. And the aboriginal studies paused for a long time. The nationalists were much too busy assimilating them into the bottom of the society or resettling troops into the traditional tribal lands, even traditional holy lands. Most of the aboriginals that hadn't yet been assimilated had little chance of receiving well education and ended up working dangerous manual labor and the women often end up fairing even worse. During those times, they couldn't even use their given names, since the Nationalist forced everyone to have a Chinese name.

Due to the lack of knowledge or they just don't give a rats A**, during the 50 years of Nationalist rule, Taiwanese, Han or otherwise used the Japanese studies to understand Taiwanese aboriginals. Hence, people continued to misidentify the Seediq as a part of Altayal. Until the peaceful transfer of power in Taiwan, more and more scholars are again interested in the Aborignal studies. The Seediq people also demanded that they be recognized and a different tribe. The government has already separated another group, the Taroko, out of the Altayal and is in the process of recognizing the Seediq as a separate group.

mhuway namu (thanks)

Toda (peace)



Leader of the Mushia rebellion and the Mahobo tribe, Mona Ludo (center).



A tatooed Seediq Woman from "Seediq Bale"



This is a Tattooed Altayal woman. The Tatoo for Altayal woman is more V shape, and for the Seediq is more U shape.
Other information on Ping-Pu-Zhu (Flatland Aboriginals)

Even during Qing's rule, less than 150 years ago, Taiwan was dominantly Austronesians.

Like most Austronesian islands, there are many different tribes with different languages.

Japanese genrealized the Taiwan aboriginals into two groups. The Flatland tribes, and the Highland tribes. That is actually a very rough generalization. Because that they mean by highland tribes actually means tribe not yet adapted Han or Japanese ways.

The Flatland tribes today have mostly forgotten about their true identities after more than 200 years of oppression with a few exceptions like the Katavalan in the north, and some Siraya tribes in the south. However they have lost their language and most of their customs.

The highland tribes are falling into the same fate.

Currently the Taiwanese government recognizes 11 aboriginal tribes and considering adding Seediq or Taroko as the 12th tribe.

"The 11 tribes consist of 10 "Highland" tribes : Altayal, Bunun, Amei, Tsou, Puyuma, Paiwan, Tao (aka Yami), Saisiyat, Rukai, Thao"

The Saisiyat tribe has a festival of mourning every two years for the "short black people" which they believe to be the first inhabitants of Taiwan. These short black people supposedly lived in caves and although short they were very powerful in physique. They were described as having dark skin and reddish hair.
The Saisiyat legend says that there were only a few women amonst the short black people tribe and one day some Saisiyat women were molested by them. The Saisiyat planned to retaliate against them and invited them to a festival. The Short Black people had to cross a bridge to get there so when they were leaving across the bridge the Saisiyat cut the bridge and the SBP tribe fell to their deaths. It was said that only one survived. Now the caves and festival is considered sacred to the Saisiyat. There is supposedly records from the Qing Dynasty mentioning the Short Black People.

[hansioux]

Hi Kongmun,

I am guessing this part is your input.

Quote

The Saisiyat tribe has a festival of mourning every two years for the "short black people" which they believe to be the first inhabitants of Taiwan. These short black people supposedly lived in caves and although short they were very powerful in physique. They were described as having dark skin and reddish hair.
The Saisiyat legend says that there were only a few women amonst the short black people tribe and one day some Saisiyat women were molested by them. The Saisiyat planned to retaliate against them and invited them to a festival. The Short Black people had to cross a bridge to get there so when they were leaving across the bridge the Saisiyat cut the bridge and the SBP tribe fell to their deaths. It was said that only one survived. Now the caves and festival is considered sacred to the Saisiyat. There is supposedly records from the Qing Dynasty mentioning the Short Black People.

Which is a GREAT input! I have personally been researching the legend of the little black people. This is a legend common to ALL austronesians. From Taiwan to Java, all Austronesians speak of this "little black people".

In fact, some of them still exist to day in the Philipinnes, Malaysia and Indonesia. They are refered to as the Negrotos by the Europeans.

The last issue of "Scientific America" spoke of the the discovered a new species of human. That lived from the same time as Homo Erectus until 13000 years ago on the Java islands. They adult igrows only up to the height of a 3 years old! They made stone tools and hunt mini-elephants on the island. And they co-existed with the Homo-Sapians when we first arrived. There were legends in Indonesia that human were created when these small people and huge people intermarried.

The legend of small black people is common to all Aboriginal tribes in Taiwan, but only Saisiyat tribes have a festival for it.

I have more research notes at work, i'll post them later.

[Kongmun]

It makes you wonder how the little black people got to these islands especially if there is no mention that they were seafaring people.

[hansioux]

Kongmun, on Feb 20 2005, 04:48 PM, said:

It makes you wonder how the little black people got to these islands especially if there is no mention that they were seafaring people.

They could have simply been there before there was water seperating the islands.

Here are the information I promised:

I hope you can read HanJi

First legends of Little Black People in all the remainning Taiwanes tribes, please note, this is NOT a complete list, there are legends of little black people in EVERY Taiwanese tribes, both in PinPu flatland tribes and the Mountain tribes:

鄒族 Tsou:
Name for the little black people: kavurua

很早以前，hla'alua人與kavurua(小矮人)都同住在hlasnga(東方日出)這個地方，而Takiar（貝神）是 kavurua人的法寶物。有一天 hla'alua的祖先要離開 hlasnga 這個地方，kavurua很難過，於是將他們最珍貴的寶物， Takiaru贈送給他們，並且交代 hla'alua人要把它奉為自己的神來祭拜。於是 Takiar從此就變成hla'alua的神了。
Takiar（貝神）共有十二個，他們是一、勇猛神；二、狩獵神；三、健康神；四、食神；五、驅魔神；六、勤勞神；七、平安神；八、驅懶神；九、狀元神；十、守護神；十一、聰明神；十二、風雨神，Takiar祭是hla'alua人最重要的祭典，每兩年要舉行一次，時間是在國曆的元月一日至十五日之間舉行。貝神在平時是由頭目保管，頭目會把貝神放在甕中封起來，再把甕埋在頭目家的屋後，但是很神奇的是：貝神雖被封在甕裡，埋在土裡，卻仍然不見其存在，它們還是回到hlasnga這個地方去了，當族人要準備祭典時，貝神會陸陸續續的回到頭目家。
當祭典開始的前一天晚上，頭目會把貝神帶到祭場的聖火中間，放在固定的洞裡，然後用石板蓋起來，由男士守著不讓女士或其他動物跨越，當祭典這一天凌晨的第一個雞啼聲時，頭目就會命令男士們把所有的祭品帶到祭場中，接著就是迎神祭、祭神祭的祭儀，祭儀完成之後，族人才開始飲酒歡唱及跳舞，早期的祭典活動最少也要七天之久，把所有的酒和獵物都用光了之後才結束。

香稻米的故事

鄒族最重要的糧食作物是「小米」，以前我們每一家都有供奉小米神，後來我們也吃一種食物，叫做「稻米」，可是我們鄒族的稻米和其他地方的稻米不一樣，我們的稻米非常的香，我們的祖先都說這是「香稻米」。

很久很久以前鄒族的人們，很喜歡吃一種藤子，那種是躺在地上的一種，後來才有了稻米，稻米是很珍貴的啊，因為平常一株稻米只有二、三十顆稻子。

據說香稻米的故事是這樣發生的。我們鄒族的勇士有一次去打獵，有個人因為口很渴啊，就隨地抓起一條藤蔓，拿起來喝它莖裡面的水分，發現這條藤蔓非常的粗，他從來沒有見過這麼粗的藤蔓。於是他一直挖一直挖，忽然挖到了一個洞，他不小心掉下去了，原來洞裡還有另一個世界，他覺得很新奇很好玩，還好根還在原來的地方，他就放心了。

勇士看到了一大群的小矮人，因為他看起來特別的高，所以小矮人也望著他，突然間他看到一群小矮人圍著一個鍋子，鍋子裡面有一粒粒白色的東西在上面，小矮人跟他說：「這就是很香的香稻米啊！」，可是小矮人因為沒有肛門所以不能吃，只能聞稻米的香味。

勇士嘗了嘗稻米的味道，發現這種稻米真是十分的好吃，於是就向小矮人請教了種植的方法，想要拿一些稻米回去當種子，但小矮人說不行，所以勇士就偷偷的把稻米放在耳朵裡，而那些小矮人就說：在那邊。勇士把稻米放在衣服裡，他們說：在那邊。勇士放在嘴巴裡，他們也說：在那邊。勇士放在肛門裡，小矮人還是說：在那邊。

後來勇士急了，他只好把稻米放在「geilu」（男人的陽具）裡，他要走的時候，小矮人不敢指，甚至不敢看，小矮人非常的有禮貌，他們無法阻止勇士帶回稻米的種子，後來勇士把這種稻米帶回部落種植，就成了鄒族人吃的「香稻米」的由來。

賽夏 Saisiyat
Name for Little Black People: Ta'ay (Taai)

ta'ay 是從前棲息於balay溪(上坪溪上游)右岸，maybalay山的西北方半山腰岩洞內 (現在該地稱為rayta'ay)的一群矮人，他們的身長雖僅有三尺左右，但是臂又強而擅長於妖術，本族很害怕他們。不過ta'ay能歌善舞，所以本族每年稻子收穫舉行祭祀時，都會邀請他們的男女一起來唱歌跳舞。然而ta'ay所棲息的岩窟在溪的對岸，而且水深崖峻不易靠近，所以本族邀請他們時，都要從溪的這一邊向岩窟射箭以做為信號。有一年，本族人邀請他們時，照例射箭做信號，但是ta'ay的壯丁涉溪而來，立刻逮住本族的使者，勒緊他的睪丸使其氣絕，幸而其後ta'ay的老人趕來，憐憫他而用芒草綁住他的全身，一面誦咒，一面祈禱，該族人才因而獲得甦生。從此本族害怕ta'ay，選使者時要選腳力矯捷的人，而使者向岩洞射入前後則立刻轉頭快跑回家。此外，相傳ta'ay人本性淫蕩，和本族一起歌舞時經常玷辱本族婦女，而他們又善於隱身之術，人們因此不易追查到現場，唯有他們祭畢回去後，本族婦女突然腹部脹大，才知道被他們玷辱了。本族雖然因此非常厭惡他們，但是ta'ay力強且又長於妖術，不容易敵對，只好無奈地忍耐著。直到有一年的祭祀，ta'ay的男女照例一起來到rarawayan(大隘社番石，在一百步之內)，和本族的男女會合舉行歌舞。有一個本族人恰巧看到自己的妻子正被ta'ay玷辱，他憤恨不已，想要殺死ta'ay，除去其患。他絞盡腦汁，好不容易想出計策。他帶二、三個壯丁在ta'ay回去之前，先到達sinkaw溪之岸邊ayroha，之處等待他們。岸邊有一棵巨大的山枇杷樹，樹幹向溪邊傾斜，樹枝伸展橫跨在深淵上(稱此地為kamlalazem)。ta'ay每次往來本族時都爬上該樹休息，本族壯丁們知道此事，所以用刀斧砍去樹根的內側(下面)一半左右，又為了不要讓人發覺而把外側(上面)半部留著原狀。ta'ay一行人祭祀完畢回來，這一天天氣很熱，所以一如往常大家爬到該樹上納涼。

這時響起了聲音，一女說:「什麼聲音呀？」(kano:')一男回答說:「是大嫂膝蓋的聲音吧！」(twanayotopot)，話還沒說完，突然嗶啪一聲樹根折斷了，ta'ay一行人也就掉進深淵淹死了。那時坐在樹根的兩個ta'ay倖免於難，於是就問一個本族人說︰「這奸計是誰設計的?」那人回答說︰「我不知道，但是依我推測，是你們之中有人經常對我們惡作劇，因此受到我族某人怨恨，以致遭到此災難。」二個ta'ay人覺得很委屈，但是眼前寡不敵聚，無可奈何，便想要遺棄該巢穴。本族人安慰並說服他們和從前同樣留在原地，但是他們不答應，並且說︰「無論你們怎樣留我們，我們也絕對不會留下，不過我們走了之後，你們因為不善歌謠，所以祭祀時必會遭到困難，因此，我們現在就教給你們。」然後他們就教授本族人各種歌謠，但是他們的歌謠太難了，大家都學不好，只有姓朱的一個人能精通，傳承到今日。二位ta'ay人教授完歌謠後，即朝著東方離去。

布農 Bunun
Name for little black people: sadusu (sedoso)


Related Research Paper, it also mentions still existing Little Black People tribes in Asia:


台灣歷史上的真實與傳說－小矮人

在台灣的考古發掘中，有著名的卑南文化、長濱文化等史前文化層，但這些所發現的出土
文物，並不能明瞭這些文化與現在原住民的關係；而從現今發現的遺址與文獻的記載來推
論，一般人類學家和歷史學家都認為「矮小人種」是最早到台灣的，但誰也不知道他們是
於何時何地向台灣移民的。1898年德國人Albrecht
Wirth所著《台灣之歷史》的內容中，
對台灣的矮小人種有下列的描述：

『在台灣有矮小的、淺色的，服裝很好的瑯嶠Lonkjou或Lonkiau人。"Lonk"這個名稱，到
處都是指小人而言，因為台灣以前稱為小琉求，所以台灣的原始人民也許大部分是矮小人
種。即在現代，一點四五公尺以下的矮人仍佔在台灣之北鄰島沖繩的人民三分之一。』
另外在《台灣省通志》（同冑志）第一冊記載：
『台灣省最早的原住民可能為矮黑人，此可由今日各地民間，尚有[烏鬼]故事之傳說，與
賽夏族之舉行矮人祭，布農族傳說有[塔圭利侏儒]及台東排灣族說其先住民為矮人等，獲
得啟示。與台灣一水之隔的菲律賓，現尚有四、五萬的矮黑人，則台灣於二、三百年前，
曾有矮黑人居住，實無足為奇。』
除了居住在蘭嶼的達悟族外，台灣本島的原住民族群中，均有矮人的傳說，而小琉球的[烏
鬼番]傳說則是較著名的，小琉球故老相傳，烏鬼番水性很好，在海底下可以潛水逼個時辰
，不必浮出水面換氣，他們的頰下長了像魚一樣的鰓，在海中鑿沉過往的商船，劫取貨物
。現今的小琉球島上仍然留有烏鬼洞的遺跡，供人遊覽。
這最先抵達台灣或是原本即原本居住於此的矮小人種，或許已經從台灣這片美麗的土地上
消失了，似乎淹沒在歷史的洪流中，也許只有兩年一次的矮靈祭，才能把那些幽靈召喚回
來，使人記起台灣的歷史中，曾經有過這麼一群真實卻如同謎一樣的民族。

長久以來仁愛鄉處於原始「處女地」狀態，不僅被考古學家發現「史前石棺群」，當地原住民布農族的部落之間，還流傳有台灣古老的種族「矮黑人」目擊報告，當地布農族居民把矮黑人叫做「誰都鎖」（sedoso），並且傳說布農族祖先曾經和矮黑人發生過戰鬥，最後矮黑人才遷離，後來也只零星出現，已數十年沒有再出現過。


民國七十年（一九八一）國內學者卻在仁愛鄉「曲冰」地段，發現一處台彎最大規模的史前石棺群遺址，遺址中佈滿大大小小的石板棺，小石棺的數量甚多，學者們研判大小石棺分別屬於不同的文化層。


由於小石板棺小到像是嬰兒的尺寸，與傳說中的三尺高矮黑人類似，又當地布農族如果嬰兒死了，並不使用石板棺，所以有學者懷疑：這一大群小石板棺，是否就是失蹤的矮黑人所有？況且這裡還有石板地基，顯然也曾有房屋等聚落建築。


碳十四的檢測估計石器年代，約二千至三千於年前的文化層。石棺內的人骨由於白蟻侵入，棺中的人骨早已化作一堆骨粉，無法辨認人骨的大小，至今仍是一個未解的謎題。
但是前省立台灣博物館人類學組阮昌銳表示，在屏東縣曾經發現類似小石板棺，人骨也已經粉化，但是留下一顆臼齒，臼齒是成人才會長出的牙齒，證明小石板棺中的屍體應該是成人，說明台灣可能曾有小矮人種族的存在。


曲冰遺址出土的石器遺物數千件，大多已運往中研院典藏與研究中。
當地附近有兩個布農族部落，老人們則指稱他們的長輩確實曾在附近遇見過矮人，矮人的成人身高，只有布農族國小的兒童那般高，他們的頭大概只有到布農族的腰間而已，曾經來偷摘他們種的豆子，布農族耆老說，至今已幾十年不見他們的蹤影了，只留下傳說，卻沒有留下直接的證據。


布農族耆老們說矮人的成人身高如同布農族小孩子那般高而已。

可是關於台灣原住民的淵源，至今迄無定論。一般學 者都抱著一個假說，他們是由南方島嶼移殖而來。若依據 凌純聲教授「南洋土著與中國古代百越民族」一文，南洋 的原住民和南方的中國人有著親密的系裔關係。這裏所謂 南洋，係指較廣義的南洋，包括菲律賓、婆羅州、西里伯 斯、摩洛加、帝汶、爪哇、蘇門答臘諸島、馬來半島、中 南半島以及馬達加斯加島的一部份。

這個區域內的原住民在體質人類學上大致可分為吠陀 群(Veddoid)、小黑人群(Negridoi)、古蒙古系 (Palaeo． Mongoloid)及馬來系(Malaysian)。

吠陀系的種族如麻六甲的Senoi﹑Sakai；蘇門答臘的 Poklo Ludu﹑Ulu；西里伯斯的Toala﹑Tomna;婆羅洲的Ulu 等均屬之。小黑人群在南洋群島的一支稱為小黑人 (Negritos)，馬來半鳥的Semang﹑安達曼的Min-Kopis﹑菲 律賓的Aeta等都屬之。古蒙古系分佈於中國西南以迄整個 中南半島，例如安南的Mois等屬之馬來系可以分為原馬來人(Proto-Malaysian（又稱印度尼西安Indonesian或舊馬 來）與馬來人（又稱新馬來）。印度尼西安是先馬來人與 小黑人及吠陀人的混血，今日麻六甲的Jakun ﹑蘇門答臘 的Battak﹑婆羅洲的Dyak﹑西里伯斯的Ponko﹑菲島的 Ifugao﹑Igorot和台灣的排灣Paiwan等諸族均屬之，新馬 來人是舊馬來人與德拉維甸人(Dravidian) 的混血，馬來 人﹑爪哇人﹑峇厘島人以及菲島的 Moros﹑Tinguian等屬 之。

民族學家巴斯田Bastian研究的結果，認為今日菲律 賓﹑台灣﹑東印度群島﹑阿薩姆及中南半島等地仍保持著 諸如嚼檳榔﹑祭獻犧牲﹑織彩棉布﹑戴梳﹑紋身﹑獨柄風 箱﹑竹弓﹑獵頭﹑人祭﹑少女房....等共同文化。這許多 文化特質所組成的東南亞古文化並非只見於束南亞的半島 和島嶼，在中國大陸上古，代百越民族的遺民中也可以見 到。

學者們分析此一東南亞古文化特質的結果，認為可以 證明池們可能起源於大陸長江中游一帶，而後自此傳入今 天的南洋群島。因此，今日台灣的原住民不但與中國古代 百越系出同源，而且也是從南中國遷徙來日的。

巴斯田且將大陸半島與南洋群島的所謂印度尼西亞文 化總稱為東南亞古文化圈( Indonesian Cultural System )。

二、南島島民頭骨測量多變項分析（Multivariate Statistics）

為了徹底了解南島語族的生物親淵關係，自70年後的體質人類學家開始借用演化生物學的概念及方法，來分析南島人的頭骨型態，特別是頭骨測量，因為這些數值變化可能反映出是由某些基因控制的現象。其目的不外是利用這些研究的成果來檢驗語言學、考古學及分子生物學家所提出的假說。

夏威夷大學的體質人類學家彼楚威斯基（Michael Pietrusewsky）在1994年利用亞太地區包括53個不同史前、現代原住民2468件頭骨標本，選擇了32個標準測量項目（如顱長、寬、高，眶寬、高，顎長、寬、高等）初步的統計分析結果如下：

1.部分美拉尼西亞人的頭骨標本無疑是摻有巴布亞（非南島語族）的血統，其中也包括南島語族；

2.澳洲土著的頭骨標本是屬於個別的語族；

3.波里尼西亞及東南亞頭骨標本基本上是同屬南島語系；

4.頭骨型態的相似程度，美拉尼西亞、澳洲土著及塔斯美尼亞人可單獨自成一組。

5.波里尼西亞人單獨形成亞洲大組的南支，顯示南島語族的生物原鄉在亞洲。在亞洲，波里尼西亞人與東南亞的關係又特別密切。

6.該項分析中，最令人注目的是殷墟安陽頭骨與台灣漢人、海南島人、台灣的泰雅族有關連。這項結果剛好印證了語言學家沙伽特（Sagart）所提出的古代中國人與原南島語族的親淵說。

7.蒙古種人與亞洲人的類聚關係，暗示蒙古種人與太平洋島民的關係不甚密切，因此「蒙古人種」未曾出現於「南島國度」中。


English definition for Little Black People:

Negritos are the aboriginal peoples in southern and southeastern Asia as well as in the adjacent Oceania, including Australia.

Negritos have suffered a lot and still suffer from intuders into their ancestral and tribal lands.

Areas where Negritos still live include the Andaman islands, the Malakka Peninsula (Thailand and Malaysia), the Philippines, Melanesia and Australia.

Negritos Among the Negritos are the following tribes: Andamans (Onge, Sentinelese, Jarawa, Andamans) Mani or Mannee (Kanang, Kintak, Lanoh, Kenseu, Yahai (Jahai), Mendrik, Batek), Aeta, Agta, Dumagat, Ata, Atta, Ati, Mamanwa (Mamanua). Tjapukai

Perogative names are Sakai, Semang, Baluga, Kingkong,...



There is actually a Negritos Forum on Yahoo, here is the link:

http://groups.yahoo....group/negritos/


As you can see, there are a lot of space for researching in this area. The Negritos probably arrived in Austronesia before the homo sapians. This is a subject that I find of great interest. However, it probably should go under Asian history section, as it has nothing to do with China or Chinese people.

[hansioux]

From the Scientific American Web-site. This is an article in Feb-05 issue. I bought it, but on the website that's as far as it goes....

Quote

The Littlest Human 
A spectacular find in Indonesia reveals that a strikingly different hominid shared the earth with our kind in the not so distant past 
By Kate Wong 


On the island of Flores in Indonesia, villagers have long told tales of a diminutive, upright-walking creature with a lopsided gait, a voracious appetite, and soft, murmuring speech. They call it ebu gogo, "the grandmother who eats anything." Scientists?best guess was that macaque monkeys inspired the ebu gogo lore. But last October, an alluring alternative came to light. A team of Australian and Indonesian researchers excavating a cave on Flores unveiled the remains of a lilliputian human--one that stood barely a meter tall--whose kind lived as recently as 13,000 years ago.

The announcement electrified the paleoanthropology community. Homo sapiens was supposed to have had the planet to itself for the past 25 millennia, free from the company of other humans following the apparent demise of the Neandertals in Europe and Homo erectus in Asia. Furthermore, hominids this tiny were known only from fossils of australopithecines (Lucy and the like) that lived nearly three million years ago--long before the emergence of H. sapiens. No one would have predicted that our own species had a contemporary as small and primitive-looking as the little Floresian. Neither would anyone have guessed that a creature with a skull the size of a grapefruit might have possessed cognitive capabilities comparable to those of anatomically modern humans....

[Kongmun]

According to villagers in Flores the Ebu Gogo was last seen in the 19th century just before the Dutch colonist arrived in central Flores, Indonesia. The Ebu Gogo was described as being one meter in height with hairy body and long arms. Their women had long breasts which they flung over their shoulders. The Ebu Gogo got their name because they ate everything raw.