[Moose]

From the RTK TV series.It seems that Zhuge Liang wanted Wei Yan dead the moment he set eyes on him.Did Wei Yan give Zhuge Liang a bad first impression or was Zhuge Liang really that smart to know Wei Yan's character the moment he laid eyes on him?

[Tyler]

In the novel yes, I'm not sure about actuall history on this one.

[Yun]

The novel says that Zhuge Liang saw from the moment Wei Yan surrendered that he had a treacherous streak, but that's just made up. In the Sanguo Zhi, Wei Yan never surrendered to Liu Bei at Changsha by killing his lord. He was instead a long-time follower of Liu Bei.

But it's true that Zhuge Liang never really trusted Wei Yan. Wei was the best choice, other than Jiang Wei, to succeed Zhuge Liang as the commander of the Shu-Han army. However, Zhuge Liang left orders that if Wei Yan protested against withdrawing the army after his death, Wei should be left behind. This was obvious favouritism, and the most likely reason for it is that Zhuge Liang did not trust generals who were too independent-minded. He preferred to give power to officials, even if they were scoundrels like Yang Yi.

Wei Yan merely wanted to continue the northern campaign and get rid of Yang Yi. For that, Yang Yi had him killed. But Yang later got angry that Jiang Wan was promoted over him, and complained that if he had defected to the Wei right after Zhuge Liang's death, he would be better off now. His words were reported to the court, and he was sacked and finally made to commit suicide. At least Wei Yan didn't threaten to defect!

[xiangyu]

in the RTK TV series ,i really hated wei yan alot ,and this might be out of topic do u guys know the song when Zhuge Liang die and they sing it in ep 53 of the drama,so sad ,

[Zhou Yu]

In acuall history Wei Yan was a rebel he did not like to take orders (kinda like Lu Bu) and usually didnt. Seeing as though Zhuge was a strategist i imagine that would have got on his nerves espesally seeing as though Wei Yan put his plans at risk. But Wei Yan is still cool. LOL

[sima old bandit]

Wei Yan was not a good choice to replace Zhuge Liang as commander in chief in the novel or in history.

1) He is arrogant and others avoided him. How can such a man possibly exert everyone to do their utmost. He hated Yang Yi with a vengance for standing up to him and not bowing down to him. Sun Quan similarly passed over Zhang Zhao for the post of Prime Minister of Wu because he was not tolerant enough despite his talent and support from the court.

Notice that when the Shu court got memorials from both Yang Yi & Wei Yan no one supports Wei Yan. Then one shout from Wang Ping and all Wei Yan's own personal troops disperse.

2) This guy has the emotional intelligence of a child. Notice how he loses his temper and attacks his own side after the death of Zhuge Liang, endangering his own state for his personal dispute. If the Shu troops had started fighting and Wei troops pursued deeply then the Shu troops would have been screwed.

His retard plan to take over Changan says about as much about his strategy.

While Yang Yi had deluded dreams of succeeding Zhuge Liang, Wei Yan took unlawful steps to control the Shu army.

Zhuge Liang named Jiang Wan his successor who occupied his equivalent post although not in title. Fei Yi and Jiang Wei assisted him. He already mentioned that Yang Yi's character was not suitable for anything too great. It was due to the fact that he was diligent in his duties and helped with Zhuge Liangs supply problems that he used him.

Zhuge Liang did not tell them to kill Wei Yan. He anticipated that Wei Yan may not listen to his orders and told the army they were to retreat without him if that was the case. It was Yang Yi that had him killed and used his head as a football.

In the novel i think Zhuge Liang was not serious about killing him. He just wished to let Wei Yan know that any c**p and he is dead. His valour was much needed in the Northern Campaigns though he did try to BBQ him along with Sima Yi at Shangfong Valley,

[Merchant]

I think WeiYan was a bully when he was a kid, he took Zhuge Liang's lunch money.
Hence Zhuge Liang hated him, feared him, but can't get ride of him. Such is always the feeling of the victims of bullies.

But seriously, I think WeiYan was portrait that way becasue he lost to Yang Yi.

If he had won, the stroy maybe different.

[sima old bandit]

History hardly favoured Yang Yi though since Yang Yi's career went down the drain the minute he arrived home. If Wei Yan had won then i think it would be even worse.

No one in Shu is going to tolerate a general who seizes power in such an unlawful manner. In any case Jiang Wan had already led the Imperial Guard (or Shu Han's equivalent) to deal with it.

At least this way Wei Yan dies due to Yang Yi but if Wei Yan succeeded and got home i think he might be executed.

[zhao yun the brave]

was wei yan really tall or short? and was he strong? i wonder if he has any sons or brother or sister.

what type of martial art does he do?

[Yun]

The historical records mentioned that he was "braver and stronger than the average man" (yongmeng guo ren), so yes he was strong. It is also mentioned that his 'three levels of kin' (san zu) were executed after his coup against Yang Yi failed - these 'three levels' include parents, siblings, wife, and children. That is the only mention in history of his family. As for whether he was tall or short, we don't know.

On the question of 'type of martial arts' - the whole idea of schools of martial arts only appeared in China much later than the Three Kingdoms.

[zhao yun the brave]

was he simalar to dian wei?

[Iamnick]

the quote that he gave you is really the only one to go off of. You have to remember that these people lived almost 2000 years ago, so there isn't all that much to go off of.

[zhao yun the brave]

how long did wei yan live and did he die of old age

[Yun]

Quote

how long did wei yan live and did he die of old age

After Zhuge Liang died, Wei Yan and Yang Yi (one of Zhuge Liang's aides) fought for leadership and control of the Shu-Han army. In the end Wei Yan lost out and was killed. Yang Yi then labelled Wei Yan as a traitor and claimed he had wanted to defect to Wei. This claim was untrue.

It is not known how old he was when he was killed.

This post has been edited by Yun: 17 December 2005 - 02:13 PM

[Iamnick]

he was killed by Ma Dai when he rebelled against Yang Yi. He lived from 175-234, so 59.