[HaSY]

tis battle i mean during the kangxi period.....

where did it happened...?

how is the battle?

who r the commanders?

how come qing dynasty can win over russia?

show me the light........

[Yun]

Are you referring to the battles that led up to the Treaty of Nerchinsk in 1689?

http://www.everythin...node_id=1516037

http://cio.ceu.hu/ex...ble_histor.html

What I know is that a Russian military expedition to the Amur River (Heilongjiang) was wiped out by the Qing commander Sharhuda in 1658. However, the Russians continued expanding eastwards and built the forts of Nerchinsk (Nibuchu) in Inner Mongolia in 1656 and Yakesa on the north bank of the Amur in 1665. The Russians in Nerchinsk were driven out by the Qing in 1661, but reoccupied the fort in 1669. The Qing then left them alone until it had suppressed the Three Feudatories Rebellion and conquered Taiwan.

Yakesa was besieged by Qing troops in 1685 and 1686. In 1685, Peng Chun was the Qing commander and the fort surrendered after 4 days of bombardment by 190 artillery pieces. The Qing troops then destroyed Yakesa and withdrew. The Russian garrison withdrew to Nerchinsk, but returned 17 days later and rebuilt the fort. In 1686, the Qing returned under Sabusi and besides bombarding Yakesa, also brought in Taiwanese aboriginal troops in rattan armour to storm the fort. The Russian comander was killed and only 100 Russian troops were left when the Qing government accepted a ceasefire offered by the Russian ambassadors in Beijing. Negotiations for a treaty then began in Nerchinsk in 1689.

[General_Zhaoyun]

I should slightly narrate the Sino-Russian Nerchinsk (or Nibuchu 尼布楚) Treaty history.

In the latter part of the 16th century, Czarist Russia in far-off Europe crossed the Ural Mountain for its eastward expansion. When the Qing Army (QA) entered China's territory, the Russian Expeditionary Force (REF), seizing the opportunity, wantonly raided the northeastern region in China. A contingent of the REF led by Boyakov took to burning, killing and plundering in the delta of the Amur (Heilong) River and committed all sorts of crimes. They even ate the bodies of 50 odd slaughtered residents.

A band of Russian Cossacks led by Khabarov intruded into China in 1649. Upon learning of their arrival, local residents evacuated swiftly. After replenishing his military forces in Russia in 1651, Khabarov entered China's territory again. He attacked and captured Yakesa City (at the middle reaches of the Amur River) and continued raiding the middle and lower reaches of Heilong River.

In 1652, Khabarov was attacked by QA and local residents at Wuzhala Village (at the mouth of the Hongjiali River in Russia today). Thereafter Khabarov would not dare to advance anymore; he retreated hurriedly to the upper reaches of the Amur (Heilong) River. All the way, he was constantly attacked by the local inhabitants.

Later, Czarist Russia appointed Stebanov as leader of the invasion forces. He and over 270 Russian soldiers were killed by the QA's General Sharhuda in 1658. Two years later, Sharhuda's son, Bahai, wiped out the Russian remnant troops along the middle and lower reaches of the Amur River. But the Russian Army (RA) was still entrenched at China's territory in Nibuchu (at the upper reaches of the Amur River) and Yakesa.

While the RA was raiding the delta of the Amur River, the Russian Government constantly assigned envoys to China. Russian envoys led by Nicholei came to the capital in 1676, Emperor Kangxi received them in person, hoping to hold talks to solve the Sino-Russian border dispute. But Nicholei solemnly posing himself as the Imperial commissioner of a superior country, unreasonably demanded that the Qing Government present a large amount of tributes to Russia every year.

After suppressing the upheaval of the 3 Feudatories, Emperor Kangxi began to handle the border defence in the northeast in 1681. From 1683, he successively deployed armies to Aihui and Huma-er on the bank of the Amur (Heilong) River to build a wooden wall, shipyards and roads. Wastelands were opened up to grow rice grain. The main purpose was to win in battle and to maintain a defence after the battle.

The Qing government decided to mount an attack against Yakesa in 1685. The QA arrived at the destination in June. They shelled the city ferociously with cannons. The RA suffered heavy casualties. The QA delivered a letter to the RA inducing it to capitulate. Turbujin, leader of the RA, hoisted a white flag. Leading over 700 Russians, he withdrew from the surrendered city.

After arriving at Nibuchu, Turbujin learnt that the QA was not stationed at Yakesa after scoring the victory but had returned to Aihui. He had his military forces replenished and leading over 800 men, captured Yakesa again. He had a fortress and other defence works built on the ruins with the intention of continuing with the entrenchment there.

In 1686, Emperor Kangxi issued an order again for the recovery of Yakesa. General Sabusi of the QA, leading 2000 men, came to the foot of the defence wall of Yakesa. This time, the QA was unable to place its cannons and other weapons near the enemy's defence works as the RA had an ample supply of firearms. Sabusi then ordered his men to dig trenches and build ramparts around Yakesa so as to besiege it for a long period of time.

The cold winter soon came. Most of the Russian soldiers in Yakesa were killed in battle or died of illness. Turbujin, leader of the invasion forces, was also killed. Only 66 men out of 800 odd were left. The RA had run out of provisions and ammunition. The defence of the city could collapse any time. Precisely at this time, a Russian messenger came to Beijing. He stated that Russia accepted the Qing Government's proposal to hold talks on border disputes.

In September 1689, China and Russia officially signed the Sino-Russian Nibuchu Treaty, which fixed the Sino-Russian eastern boundary. China ceded to Russia Nibuchu and Lake Baikal, which originally belonged to China. In spite of this, however, the Nibuchu Treaty was an equal treaty. Thenceforth peace prevailed on the Sino-Russian border for over 150 years.

This post has been edited by Yun: 16 February 2005 - 03:26 AM

[Borjigin Ayurbarwada]

The obvious Chinese nationalist distortion.

"In September 1689, China and Russia officially signed the Sino-Russian Nibuchu Treaty, which fixed the Sino-Russian eastern boundary. China ceded to Russia Nibuchu and Lake Baikal, which originally belonged to China. In spite of this, however, the Nibuchu Treaty was an equal treaty. Thenceforth peace prevailed on the Sino-Russian border for over 150 years."

Every time I read the Chinese version of the self degrading article, it makes me laugh so hard that I wonder why China still does it today, its funny how China obviously degrade its military accomplishments into a defeat or equality when it was clearly a victory and loss for Russia for the purpose of spreading the Propaganda of "These territory were orininally ours, we were forced to cede them to western imperialists"
If anything the treaty of Nerchinsk was a clear Russian loss, both Kang Xi and the Russians knew it. Lake Baikal and Nerchinsk was in everyway Russian conquest, Qing had nothing but a shadow of a claim of suzerainty over them, same goes with the territory west of the Amur.
On the other hand Russia lost when it have to cede the whole territory of the western Ussuri to Qing which it conquered. Thus Russia got the big disadvantage by ceding some 200,000 of land mass to the Qing in return for a recognition of their already conquered Nerchinsk and Baikal area and a slight useless territory north of Manchuria.

[General_Zhaoyun]

Warhead,

Thanks for pointing out the above fact. I've translated the above from a chinese article..yeah I do agree it's a more chinese nationalist view..

[Yun]

As this link shows ( http://cio.ceu.hu/ex...ble_histor.html ), the reason why the Chinese are reluctant to admit that the Nerchinsk treaty was an unequal one dictated from a position of strength by the Chinese, is that China has to take the moral high ground by showing that they never imposed any unequal treaties on Westerners. The fact is that the Qing could have annihilated the Yakesa garrison if they chose to, and retaken Nerchinsk if they wanted to. But Nerchinsk had no real strategic value, unlike the Amur River. During the negotiations, the Qing officials played hardball, slamming the table and threatening to walk out a few times. They did so because they knew the Russians had the clear disadvantage.

[astralis]

interestingly enough many of the soldiers used in the fighting on the russian border were captured soldiers from koxinga. the qing used the "taiwanese" soldiers' riverine-fighting skills to good advantage.

[Borjigin Ayurbarwada]

Here is the primary description of the treaty(not the treaty itself) in Russia.

"By the divine grace of the Great Soverigns, Tsars and Great Princes, Ivann Alekseevich and Petr Alekseevich, Autocrats of all Great and little White Russias and of the many states and lands, eastern, western, and northern; of their fathers and forefathers, heirs, lords and freeholders; Great and Plenipotentiary Ambassadors of their Royal Highness, , the Ministers of the Presence and Lieutenant Governor of Elatomsk, Ivan Vlasov, and the clerk Semon Kornitsky, who were at the ambassadorial conference near Nerchinsk and the GreatAmbassadors of the Great Asian countries, of the autocratic Monarch who of all the Bogdoi lords is the Most Wise administrator of Law and Guardian and Glory of affaris of the societyof the Chinese people, of the Actual Bogdoi and Chinese Bugdykhan Highness; Samguta, commander of imperial Bodyguard and Voevoda of the Interior Chamber and Councilor of the Kingdom..."

[astralis]

i always found it interesting, how qing china could deal with russia on a state-to-state basis, but when the other western powers first came to china, they were treated under the basis of tributary relations. power differential? perhaps, but then again, the mongols presented a bigger threat to chinese rule and the chinese never dealt with mongols as anything other than barbarians

[Yun]

Possibly because in 1684, the Qing had just completed the conquest of China against lots of 'anti-barbarian' resistance, and were in no mood to go calling other people barbarians. Things were pretty different a hundred years later.

[astralis]

well, the term barbarian was thrown around pretty loosely. the qing court called koxinga and his ming loyalists barbarians, and guess what they called the qing in return!

[Karakhan]

just curious but what ethnicity is Sharhuda? I'm guessing Manchu?

[Altaica Militarica]

Karakhan, on Mar 12 2005, 01:05 PM, said:

just curious but what ethnicity is  Sharhuda? I'm guessing Manchu?

Sharhoda was "warka" (representative of ethnic minority of Tungus origin). He took part in korean wars in 1627 & 1637 years. His native village was "taxed" by Russian kossaks in 1655 and he led joint Manchu-Korean-Chinese-Tungus troops against Russian kossaksin 1658. He won in the mouth of Sungary River on 10 June 1658.

Best regards,

Alexey.