[chinesewarrior]

Can someone tell me more about han-chinese? When referring to chinese, do we necessarily mean them?

[Tyler]

The Han are Chinese. So yes when talking about a Chinese person(s) they are referred to people of the Han. I wonder why they are not called people of the Xia since that was the first empire, but I think that answers you question.

[General_Zhaoyun]

Liu Ce, on May 28 2004, 09:41 AM, said:

The Han are Chinese. So yes when talking about a Chinese person(s) they are referred to people of the Han. I wonder why they are not called people of the Xia since that was the first empire, but I think that answers you question.

Although it was recorded in "Shiji" that Xia is the 1st chinese 'nation' or dynasty, technically speaking, it was a legendary dynasty. What happened over the course of chinese history from 2000 BC to 221 BC was that China was ruled by different tribes such as Shang, Zhou people. They are considered the ancestors of chinese.

During Zhou dynasty, the territory of what is now China was fragmented into hundreds of kingdoms or feudal states, until 221 BC, the Qin state conquered all the other states and unified China into the 1st Empire Qin.

However, the Qin was not long-lasting..it lasted only for 15 years due to Qinshihuang's tyranny. It was during the Han dynasty that the Chinese national identity was consolidated and the people in China unified into a common ethnic and language. For this reason, han-chinese became predominant in chinese history.

Generally speaking, when talking about chinese language, we refer the language of chinese as "Han" language. It was the language dated back to Han dynasty (202 BC - 220 AD).

[Tyler]

But some pottery dating to the Xia's Era have been found.

[General_Zhaoyun]

chinesewarrior, on May 28 2004, 08:14 AM, said:

Can someone tell me more about han-chinese? When referring to chinese, do we necessarily mean them?

The han-chinese is one of the ethnic nationalities of China. There made up about 96% of the chinese population in China. The han-chinese originated from the people of Han dynasty (202 BC till 220 AD), when the people living in China were unified by a common language called "han-language" as well as common han culture. Ever since, the chinese people in China were called "Han-ren" or "han-people".

When referring to chinese, do we necessarily mean them?

It depends. In most circumstance, when we talk about chinese, we usually refer to the han-chinese because they are the majority. But in China, the term "Chinese" (or "Zhong Guo Ren") is different from "Han-chinese" (or "han-ren"). "Chinese" will mean the nationality (someone whose nationality is chinese) , while "han-chinese" will refer to the ethnicity.

[barbarian]

The han chinese had the most influence in chinese history. Dynasties that were ruled by Han-chinese include Han dynasty, Sui dynasty, Tang dynasty, Song dynasty, Ming dynasty.

The han-chinese, unlike the people from the north and the steppe, were not war-like people. Whereas the steppe people preferred to raid and conquer lands, the han-chinese were mostly peasants, farmers and settlers. They were rich in culture, civilization and tend to assimilate others rather than being assimilated.

[asiaconqueror]

barbarian, on May 29 2004, 03:04 PM, said:

The han chinese had the most influence in chinese history. Dynasties that were ruled by Han-chinese include Han dynasty, Sui dynasty, Tang dynasty, Song dynasty, Ming dynasty.

The han-chinese, unlike the people from the north and the steppe, were not war-like people. Whereas the steppe people preferred to raid and conquer lands, the han-chinese were mostly peasants, farmers and settlers. They were rich in culture, civilization and tend to assimilate others rather than being assimilated.

Sure.. the official language of China today is "han language". Certainly, the han-chinese had the most influence in Chinese history. However, I would say the Steppe people such as Mongols and Manchus were the best conqueror in chinese history. Without for them, China would not be so large today..

[thirdgumi]

Han Chinese is a broad goup. Geneticaly, it is not a unitarian group.
Even culturaly, Han culture is very broad, there are some custumes practiced by Han people of certain region and totally unknow in other regions.
Sometimes the difference between Han and no Han is very thin. Like the Hui ethnicity, the only difference is that the Hui are muslins and Han are not. (correct me if I'm wrong)
In term of religion, the Han don't have an official religion.
One thing is sure, that the Han is a mixture of people. :D
Sorry couldn't help more.

[General_Zhaoyun]

Probably the only thing that 'unify' the han-chinese is their language and their culture. Ethnically, they are not a 'pure-race' or 'pure-blood' group since they are a mixed group.

I'll briefly talk a little history about the han-chinese.

The chinese people's ancestry can be traced back to Xia period (the 1st chinese dynasty in 2100 BC). The Xia people and Hua Xia (or Hwa Hsia) ethnic were the direct ancestor of chinese people today. The Xia people were the people that reside in China during Xia Dynasty. The place where they reside was around the region of Yellow river. After the Xia dynasty came Shang and Zhou dynasties. The people that resides in inner China (Zhong Yuan) came to be known as Shang and Zhou people, but the name for the ethnicity of Xia remained.

During Zhou dynasty, the ethnic name of the chinese people gradually changed from "all Xia ethnic" to "all Hua ethnic", but later they combined them to be known as "Hua Xia" (华夏). "Hua" means flower, but it also means civilization. During Zhou period, the Xia ethnic began to absorb various culture from other ethnics to form a unique culture.

In 221 BC, Qinshihuang unified various states of Zhou into the 1st empire Qin and established 36 provinces for the Hua Xia people. During Qin period, Qinshihuang carried out various unification policy, including a common written language, measurement system, political unity. Ethnically, he also sought to unify them based on Hua Xia ethnic (this include the Yue people in the south, Steppe ethnic in the north, Jie Di etc.). Most notably was the unification of a common written language for the Hua Xia ethnic and a common culture for them.

However, Qin dynasty was short-lived, lasting only 15 years. When it come to Han dynasty, the people based on Hua Xia ethnic came to be known as "Han" people.
This was the origin of name of Han-people. Han dynasty lasted for 400 years and inherited all the unification policy from Qin dynasty. Historically, it played an important role in consolidating the culture and ethnicity of the chinese people under a name "han" people, despite the fact that the "Hu Xia" ethnic name is still preserved till today. Thus han-chinese originated from Hua Xia.

[Huochubin]

Liu Ce, on May 28 2004, 01:41 AM, said:

The Han are Chinese. So yes when talking about a Chinese person(s) they are referred to people of the Han.

Hans being Chinese doesnt mean that all Chinese should be refeered to as Hans.
I have seen this topic discussed many times and most people agree that the "Han",over time has absorbed many ethinicities to become what it is today.
And the definition itself has changed much during history.
One example of the intergrations of the Han:During the Yuan dynasty,northern Chinese were considered Han where the southerners were not.Some would argue that the southerners were more "Han" in culture and customs,as the north contained many elements of Kitan and Jurchen.
Yet,history proves today that all descendents of these people wether northern or southern are all considered as Han.

[Han Chinese]

"However, Qin dynasty was short-lived, lasting only 15 years. When it come to Han dynasty, the people based on Hua Xia ethnic came to be known as "Han" people.
This was the origin of name of Han-people. Han dynasty lasted for 400 years and inherited all the unification policy from Qin dynasty. Historically, it played an important role in consolidating the culture and ethnicity of the chinese people under a name "han" people, despite the fact that the "Hu Xia" ethnic name is still preserved till today. Thus han-chinese originated from Hua Xia."

Even though his actual reign was only 15 years, his tremendous achievement in uniting China can be compared to him ruling China for a thousand years and on.

I felt Qin is one of the founding fathers of China, because without him, we would have "Europe of the East" right now. :P

[ac_dropout]

How do the Cantonese, Toishan, Ke Jia, and other ancient political/ethnic divide fit into the Han concept.

I use the word Han all the time in my spoken language. But when I go to Chinatown (Tang ren Jie 唐人街) is that a non-Han area now. Are people of 唐 dynasty of 漢 ethniticy now.

I just I have never given much though the the word Han 漢 and Hua 華 in everyday usuage in an English context.

[Kulong]

ac_dropout, on Jul 3 2004, 10:30 PM, said:

How do the Cantonese, Toishan, Ke Jia, and other ancient political/ethnic divide fit into the Han concept.

I use the word Han all the time in my spoken language. But when I go to Chinatown (Tang ren Jie 唐人街) is that a non-Han area now. Are people of 唐 dynasty of 漢 ethniticy now.

I just I have never given much though the the word Han 漢 and Hua 華 in everyday usuage in an English context.

Han 漢族 makes up about 92% of the total population in mainland China. Han includes Cantonese, Toishan, Kejia... etc.

In old Chinatowns in the U.S., some are called "唐人街" because Tang dynasty was one of China's most glorious dynasties. However, Han dynasty, while also glorious, set in stone many Han Chinese traditions including everything from politics, linguistic, to cultural.

I believe the only two major dynasties that were not ruled by Han were Yuan (Mongol) and Qing (Manchu).

[General_Zhaoyun]

Most of the Chinatown in US were 'founded' by Cantonese, who like to called themself "Tang Ren" 唐人 (people of Tang), because they were proud of the Tang dynasty and their culture, so much so that they also called the chinatown 'Tang Ren Jie" 唐人街 (Street of Tang). However, Cantonese are regarded as part of the han-chinese due to the language they used.


You should read the thread of cantonese, which tells you their history and their sinification as well as a large migration of han-chinese towards Guangdong province during Tang dynasty.

Check out:

http://s7.invisionfr...p?showtopic=211

[Kulong]

General_Zhaoyun, on Jul 4 2004, 04:28 AM, said:

Most of the Chinatown in US were 'founded' by Cantonese, who like to called themself "Tang Ren" 唐人 (people of Tang), because they were proud of the Tang dynasty and their culture, so much so that they also called the chinatown 'Tang Ren Jie" 唐人街 (Street of Tang). However, Cantonese are regarded as part of the han-chinese due to the language they used.


You should read the thread of cantonese, which tells you their history and their sinification as well as a large migration of han-chinese towards Guangdong province during Tang dynasty.

Check out:

http://s7.invisionfr...p?showtopic=211

Not just language but also culture.