22 replies to this topic

[manjuniyalma]

For this week's workshop, I chose a modern Chinese poem that I like very much, and its title is "面朝大海，春暖花开".
This poem is written by 海子(Haizi, whose real name was 查海生 Zha Haisheng, March 26, 1964--March 26, 1989). Haizi lived in extreme solitude and poverty, but that didn't stop him from becoming a talented and productive poet. In his brief life, he wrote numerous dramas, novels and poems. On his 25th birthday, he committed suicide on railway tracks near Shanhaiguan. There have been many controversies about Haizi and his poems, both during his life and after his death. This poem was written two months before his suicide. Like many people, I love this poem because the poet described so many beautiful things and thoughts in such simple and plain words. This poem may look a little bit long, but it is also very easy.


(Simplified Chinese Version)
面朝大海，春暖花开

作者：海子

从明天起, 做一个幸福的人
喂马, 劈柴, 周游世界
从明天起, 关心粮食和蔬菜
我有一所房子, 面朝大海, 春暖花开
从明天起, 和每一个亲人通信
告诉他们我的幸福
那幸福的闪电告诉我的
我将告诉每一个人
给每一条河每一座山取一个温暖的名字
陌生人, 我也为你祝福
愿你有一个灿烂的前程
愿你有情人终成眷属
愿你在尘世获得幸福
我只愿面朝大海, 春暖花开

(Traditional Chinese Version)
面朝大海，春暖花開
作者：海子

從明天起, 做一個幸福的人
喂馬, 劈柴, 周遊世界
從明天起, 關心糧食和蔬菜
我有一所房子, 面朝大海, 春暖花開
從明天起, 和每一個親人通信
告訴他們我的幸福
那幸福的閃電告訴我的
我將告訴每一個人
給每一條河每一座山取一個溫暖的名字
陌生人, 我也為你祝福
願你有一個燦爛的前程
願你有情人終成眷屬
願你在塵世獲得幸福
我只願面朝大海, 春暖花開

(Pinyin Version--sorry I don't know how to input tones.) [But see below]
mian4 chao2 da4 hai3, chun1 nuan3 hua1 kai1
cong2 ming2 tian1 qi3, zuo4 yi1 ge4 xing4 fu2 de ren2
wei4 ma3, pi1 chai2, zhou1 you2 shi4 jie4
cong2 ming2 tian1 qi3, guan1 xin1 liang2 shi2 he2 shu1 cai4
wo3 you3 yi1 suo3 fang2 zi, mian4 chao2 da4 hai3, chun1 nuan3 hua1 kai1
cong2 ming2 tian1 qi3, he2 mei3 yi1 ge4 qin1 ren2 tong1 xin4
gao4 su4 ta1 men2 wo3 de xing4 fu2
na4 xing4 fu2 de shan3 dian4 gao4 su4 wo3 de
wo3 jiang1 gao4 su4 mei3 yi1 ge4 ren2
gei3 mei3 yi1 tiao2 he2 mei3 yi1 zuo4 shan1 qi3 yi1 ge4 wen1 nuan3 de ming2 zi
mo4 sheng1 ren2 , wo3 ye3 wei4 ni3 zhu3 fu2
yuan4 ni3 you3 yi1 ge4 can4 lan4 de qing2 cheng2
yuan4 ni3 you3 qing2 ren2 zhong1 cheng2 juan4 shu3
yuan4 ni3 zai4 chen2 shi4 huo4 de2 xing4 fu2
wo3 zhi3 yuan4 mian4 chao2 da4 hai3, chun1 nuan3 hua1 kai1

With accents:

miàn cháo dàhǎi ，chūn nuǎn huākāi
zuòzhě ：hǎi zǐ

cōng míngtiān qǐ , zuò yīge xìngfú de rén
wèi mǎ , pī chái , zhōuyóushìjiè
cōng míngtiān qǐ , guānxīn liángshi hé shūcài
wǒ yǒu yī suǒ fángzi , miàn cháo dàhǎi , chūn nuǎn huākāi
cōng míngtiān qǐ , hé měiyī gè qīnrén tōngxìn
gàosu tāmen wǒde xìngfú
nǎ xìngfú de shǎndiàn gàosu wǒde
wǒ jiāng gàosu měiyī gèrén
gěi měiyī tiáo hé měiyī zuò shān qǔ yīge wēnnuǎn de míngzi
mòshēngrén , wǒ yě wéi nǐ zhùfú
yuàn nǐ yǒu yīge cànlàn de qiánchéng
yuàn nǐ yǒuqíngrénzhōngchéngjuànshǔ
yuàn nǐ zài chénshì huòdé xìngfú
wǒ zhī yuàn miàn cháo dàhǎi , chūn nuǎn huākāi

Edited by Tang Scholar, 29 November 2008 - 08:53 AM.
Adding Pinyin with accents

[Tang Scholar]

So far, we have not translated any poets from the Five Dynasties, nor of Ming.

Maybe later, when we feel stronger, we can consider again poets before Tang, if we wish to cover all periods.
Before Tang, in our translated poets list there is nobody from Qin, Han, Three Kingdoms, North and South, and Sui.

[Tang Scholar]

Into English

A fading sea morning, a warm blooming spring

From tomorrow on, I will start to be happy.
I will feed the horse, chop the wood, go touring around.
I will care for grain and vegetables - from tomorrow on.
I will have a house on the morning sea side with warm blooming springs.
From tomorrow on I will write to my relatives
to tell them I’m happy,
I’ll tell them that happiness has lightened on me.
I will tell everybody,
I will give every river and mountain a warmhearted name,
for you, stranger, I’ll also wish blessings,
I wish that your future be beaming,
I hope at the end you will feel like at home,
you will finally achieve happiness in this passing world.
I just hope for a fading sea morning in a blossoming spring.

Into Spanish

Un alba marina, una primavera cálida y florida

A partir de mañana doy comienzo a mi dicha.
Daré pienso al caballo, cortaré la leña, viajaré.
A partir de mañana me ocuparé del grano y las legumbres,
tendré casa hacia el alba y el mar, con primaveras cálidas.
A partir de mañana escribiré a los míos,
para decirles que ya soy feliz,
que me ha alcanzado el rayo de la dicha.
Lo diré a todo el mundo.
Le pondré un nombre dulce a cada monte y cada río;
a ti, extranjero, también te deseo bendiciones,
deseo que tu futuro sea radiante,
que al fin te sientas como en casa,
que logres ser feliz en este vano mundo.
Yo espero apenas un alba marina que se funda
en una primavera cálida y florida.

COMMENTARIES

- After knowing about the life of this poet, it is very difficult not to read this as a poem of helplessness and desperation.
- It is hard to reach the concision of the original in Spanish. The scarcity of the Spanish phonetics means that there have to be more syllabes to convey the same meaning. I have had to cut the last verse in two.
- Surely because this is a modern poem, it has been easier and there has been no need to ask for help. "I just hope" that I have not committed a dreadful mistake. If so, luckily, I can correct it!
- At the moment of posting this, it is Friday, 1:30 am GMT.

[fcharton]

I had translated that one a couple of weeks ago, so here's my version, with little changes... I love this poem !

面朝大海,春暖花开

从明天起,做一个幸福的人
喂马，劈柴，周游世界
从明天起,关心粮食和蔬菜
我有一所房子，面朝大海,春暖花开

从明天起，和每一个亲人通信
告诉他们我的幸福
那幸福的闪电告诉我的
我将告诉每一个人

给每一条河每一座山取一个温暖的名字

陌生人，我也为你祝福
愿你有一个灿烂的前程
愿你有情人终成眷属
愿你在尘世获的幸福

我只愿面朝大海，春暖花开


Facing the sea, flowers in spring

From tomorrow on, be a happy man
Raise horses, chop wood, see the world.
From tomorrow on, care about food and vegetables
I will have a house, facing the sea, and flowers in spring.

From tomorrow on, write to all my family
Tell them of my happiness
This spark of joy, its message
I will let everyone know

Give every river, every mountain, a warm name

You too, stranger, I wish you the best
Wish you a brilliant future
Wish you everlasting love
Wish you happiness in this world

Me, I just want to face the sea, and have flowers in spring.



Face à la mer, et des fleurs au printemps

A partir de demain, être un homme heureux
Elever des chevaux, fendre du bois, voir le monde
A partir de demain, mieux manger, des légumes
Une maison face à la mer, et des fleurs au printemps

A partir de demain, écrire à tous mes proches
Leur dire mon bonheur
Ce que m'a annoncé cet éclair de joie
Le raconter à tous

Donner à chaque rivière, à chaque montagne, un nom chaleureux

Pour toi aussi, inconnu, je fais un vœu
Je te souhaite un avenir radieux
Je te souhaite un mariage heureux
Je te souhaite le bonheur en ce monde

Moi, je veux juste être face à la mer, et des fleurs au printemps.

[manjuniyalma]

English translation:

Facing the ocean, the spring is warm and flowers blossoming

By Haizi

From tomorrow on, be a happy person,
Feed the horse, chop the log and travel around the world.
From tomorrow on, care about grain and vegetables.
I have a house, facing the ocean, the spring is warm and flowers blossoming.
From tomorrow on, I will write to every relative,
Telling them about my happiness.
What lightening of happiness told me,
I will also tell everybody.
I will give each river, each mountain a warm name.
Stranger, to you I will also give my wish--
May you have a bright future,
May you be together with you lover,
May you find happiness in this world,
To me, my only wish is to face the ocean, may the spring be warm and flowers blossoming.


Manchu translation:

amba mederi de bakcilame, niyengniyeri bulukan ilha ilakabi.
haidzi irgebulehe

cimari ci deribume, sebjengge niyalma oki
morin ulebume, deijiku sacime, jalan jecen be xurdeme sargaxaki
cimari ci deribume, jeku jai sogi de gvnin werixeki
minde emu boo bi, amba mederi de bakcilame, niyengniyeri bulukan ilha ilakabi
cimari ci deribume, niyamangga niyalma de gemu jasigan hafubuki
cende mini jabxan hvturi be alambi
sebjen i talkiyan minde alahangge be
bisirele niyalma de alambi,
bira tome, alin tome bulukan gebu emute bumbi.
eshun niyalma, bi inu sini jalin jalbarimbi
sinde eldengge julergi on bikini,
si jai hajilaha niyalma juru holbun okini
si ere buraki jalan de jabxan sebjen bahakini
mini ererengge damu amba mederi de bakcilaki, niyengniyeri bulukan okini, ilha ilakakini

Edited by manjuniyalma, 05 December 2008 - 03:38 AM.

[Tang Scholar]

Manchu translation:

amba mederi de bakcilame, niyengnieri bulukan ilha ilakabi.
haidzi irgebulehe

cimari ci deribume, sebjengge niaylma oki
morin ulebume, deijiku sacime, jalanjecen be xurdeme sargaxaki
cimari ci deribume, jeku jai sogi de gvnin werixeki
minde emu boo bi, amba mederi de bakcilame, niyengniyeri bulukan de ilha ilakabi
cimari ci deribume, niyamangga niyalma de gemu jasigan hafubuki
cende mini jabxan hvturi be alambi
sebjen i talkiyan minde alahangge be
bisirele niyalma de alambi,
bira tome, alin tome bulukan gebu emute bumbi.
eshun niyalma, bi inu sini jalin jalbarimbi
sinde eldengge julergi on bikini,
si jai hajilaha niyalma juru holbun okini
si ere buraki jalan de jabxan sebjen bahakini
bi damu amba mederi de bakcilaki, niyengniyeri bulukan, ilha ilakakini

Lovely! Manjuniyalma, you have given me my first contact ever with the Manchu language. Pity not knowing the phonetics so to be able to read it aloud...

Now I guess that your CHF name means Manchu stranger...No, I got it wrong, it means Manchu person, niyalma means person, people, according to the article on Manchu language in Wikipedia.

[manjuniyalma]

Lovely! Manjuniyalma, you have given me my first contact ever with the Manchu language. Pity not knowing the phonetics so to be able to read it aloud...

Now I guess that your CHF name means Manchu stranger...

I am glad you like it, Tang Scholar. Those are Latin transliterations, and they are different from the phonetics of Manchu.

Niyalma means "person, people, man, human" in Manchu, and the word "stranger" is expressed in two words: eshun niyalma, with eshun meaning "unfamiliar".

There is another niyalma in my translation, niyamangga niyalma which means "relative(s), family member(s)".

My user name "manjuniyalma"means "a Manchu".

Edited by manjuniyalma, 04 December 2008 - 11:40 PM.

[Yizheng]

Hi,
You are all so quick this week! Even a translation into Manchu, excellent, Manjuniyalma, only I wish I knew Manchu to appreciate it.
I find this a very sad poem, it seems so much full of unfulfilled hope, a longing inside for what will not be.
Anyway, I'm doing this in a big hurry, got all this work piling up, and all urgent. I'd rather sit too facing the sea and be contemplative.

Facing the sea as spring flowers bloom

Haizi

From tomorrow, be happy
Tend the horses, chop wood and travel the world
From tomorrow care for the plants and the grains
I've a house by the sea where the spring flowers bloom
From tomorrow I'll let all my loved ones know
Tell them all my fortune
The spark it lights inside me
I'll tell every person
And give a warm name to every river, every mountain
You strangers, I wish you blessings too
I want to see your future shine bright
See your lover at your side
See you happy in this world
And me, I just want to face the sea and watch the spring flowers bloom

[Shaolin]

My 1st ever try....

Facing Ocean,Spring Flower Blossoms

Beginning tomorrow, be a happy person.
Tending horses, chopping woods and travel around the world.
Beginning tomorrow , be caring for grains and flora.
I have a big house facing an ocean as spring flowers blossoms.
Beginning tomorrow ,I will write letters to all my beloved.
To tell them about my happiness.
Like a bolt of happiness I feel.
I will tell everyone
To give every mountain and lake a warm name.
Hey Stranger! I wish you well too.
I wish you to have a great future.
I wish you to have a wonderful loved life.
I wish you happiness.
I just wish for myself facing the ocean as spring flowers blossoms.

[Tang Scholar]

I am glad you like it, Tang Scholar. Those are Latin transliterations, and they are different from the phonetics of Manchu.

Niyalma means "person, people, man, human" in Manchu, and the word "stranger" is expressed in two words: eshun niyalma, with eshun meaning "unfamiliar".

There is another niyalma in my translation, niyamangga niyalma which means "relative(s), family member(s)".

My user name "manjuniyalma"means "a Manchu".

You were writing your message while I was editing mine. I could see that Manchu has a beautiful script. I attach one sample from
http://www.omniglot....ting/manchu.htm
Can you write that way? Can you read the sample? If so, what does it say?
Also, I saw that Manchu is spoken by very few people. At least that's what Wikipedia says: that except a few old ones, Manchu people now speak Mandarin. There is a very close language, Sibe, spoken by 27000 people who do not consider themselves Manchu.
And now here is Manjuniyalma translating our weekly poem into Manchu! Amazing. I can not imagine you as one of these oldies. Your Manchu proficiency is probably a result of recent efforts for not letting the Manchu language die. Or maybe you are an exceptional Sibe. How is it that you are a Manchu speaker, up to the point of translating poetry into this language? Congratulations!

Attached Files

•  smp_manchu.gif   11.11K   5 downloads

[manjuniyalma]

You were writing your message while I was editing mine. I could see that Manchu has a beautiful script. I attach one sample from
http://www.omniglot....ting/manchu.htm
Can you write that way? Can you read the sample? If so, what does it say?
Also, I saw that Manchu is spoken by very few people. At least that's what Wikipedia says: that except a few old ones, Manchu people now speak Mandarin. There is a very close language, Sibe, spoken by 27000 people who do not consider themselves Manchu.
And now here is Manjuniyalma translating our weekly poem into Manchu! Amazing. I can not imagine you as one of these oldies. Your Manchu proficiency is probably a result of recent efforts for not letting the Manchu language die. Or maybe you are an exceptional Sibe. How is it that you are a Manchu speaker, up to the point of translating poetry into this language? Congratulations!

I am a Manchu (or Manchurian) but not a native speaker of this language, and it hasn't been spoken in my family for two generations except for some simple words. I started to learn Manchu three years ago after a long and painful search for life's meaning. Actually it is prettey much like the moral of this peom by Haizi: what would be the one thing I would choose to do before I die. And I so wanted the Manchu language to outlive me.
I went to Cabcal, Xinjiang in the summer of 2006, and luckily found a Sibe teach who was willing to teach me. I also bought many books written in Manchu or Sibe during my stay in Urumuqi.

Because Manchu grammar is very similar to that of Japanese, a language that I have been studying for many years, the only thing I need to do in learning Manchu is to memorize vocabulary, which is also an easy task.

From my experience, I feel Manchu is not difficult to master, and it is a very beautiful and elegant language.

Now, I can understand most colloquial (Sibe) language but can only speak literary (Manchu) language. And I can read, write and translate Manchu very fast.

The translation of the Manchu in the picture you posted above:

"Following his advice, when the army was about to enter the town, he abandoned the town and fled. Akim Bek volunteered to handle the affairs, so he did the duty on behalf of the General. He had been to the capital city to present himself before the Emperor. His estate in the city and property in Kashgar, were used to provide the people living in Shikago, left in the capital city, or inherited by his son. He inherited the title of the Duke of Assisting the Nation, and was bestowed the hereditary title of Akim Bek. His son inherited the hereditary title of Akim Bek. "

I have translated a few Chinese peoms into Manchu so far. I translated this peom by Haizi in a rush and didn't make it very peotic. Anyway here is my translation in traditional Manchu alphabet.

Edited by manjuniyalma, 06 December 2008 - 12:48 AM.

[Tang Scholar]

I am a Manchu ... I started to learn Manchu three years ago after a long and painful search for life's meaning. Actually it is pretty much like the moral of this poem by Haizi: what would be the one thing I would choose to do before I die.
...
And I so wanted the Manchu language to outlive me.

I went to Cabcal, Xinjiang in the summer of 2006, and luckily found a Sibe teach who was willing to teach me. I also bought many books written in Manchu or Sibe during my stay in Urumuqi.
...
...it is a very beautiful and elegant language.
...
I translated this poem by Haizi in a rush and didn't make it very poetic.

Impressive and beautiful.
Surely you are interested in experiences like that of Eliezar (¿Eliezer?) Ben Yehuda and the revival of Hebrew; though the conditions are different, it is something worth knowing. There is also an article on language revival in the Wikipedia.
Please be encouraged.

[manjuniyalma]

Impressive and beautiful.
Surely you are interested in experiences like that of Eliezar (¿Eliezer?) Ben Yehuda and the revival of Hebrew; though the conditions are different, it is something worth knowing. There is also an article on language revival in the Wikipedia.
Please be encouraged.

Thank you for your kind encouragement, Tang Scholar. Like I said, to master the Manchu language at an individual level isn't hard, but it is much more difficult to revive it. It is almost impossible to motivate people to learn a language in which they see neither value nor future.

I guess I have to recommend a person to propose next week's peom for our workshop. Since there aren't too many people participated this one(maybe because this one wasn't challenging enough), I went through the list and decide to start for the beginning again. So can I recommend Fcharton who proposed the peom for week #1?

Edited by manjuniyalma, 05 December 2008 - 07:52 PM.

[Tang Scholar]

Since there aren't too many people participated this one(maybe because this one wasn't challenging enough)...

I think there are yet some people busy at their translations.
These exercises are always challenging. Even if the language is easy, there is the challenge to produce a poem with the translation. It is not just to say what it means. It is to do so poetically. So do not think that the fact that the poem is easy to understand has discouraged the members of our workshop.

It is almost impossible to motivate people to learn a language in which they see neither value nor future.

I think you would have to learn from yourself. You went into a search for identity, for life meaning. There are most likely others needing to find out where they come from and to give a sense to their lives. Your language is the main key to the history and the culture you belong to, to the organization of your experiences within the framework of that culture.
There may be little signs everytime, everywhere, telling you, you belong to something else different from the predominant culture. You should not forget that. You should lead others to awaken to the conscience of your own culture.

I saw from the poem in Manchu that all words end in vowels or n (with repeated endings). A relatively straight forward sequence of consonant, vowel, consonant, and so on, with exceptional groups of two consonants. As I have studied a little Japanese I see there are similarities.
There is a Greek poet whom I like very much, Konstandinos Kavafis. He has several poems on this identity theme. I will see if I can find English translations.

[Tang Scholar]

...So can I recommend Fcharton who proposed the peom for week #1?

Yes, of course, you can. Let's hope Fcharton will not be too busy.