6 replies to this topic

[Moping4U]

I have some questions on the wei-so in the Ming dynasty.

Do all provinces have their own native wei-so? Are all wei-so heriditary and for how many generations? Let's say that not every wei-so soldier was able to reproduce, woulnd't it affect the army's enlistment. And what are their exact training?

[General_Zhaoyun]

Just curious.. do you have the chinese characters for "Wei -so" ? I personally do not know what that is. I might be able to find some information for this from Ming's military history.

[Moping4U]

Just curious.. do you have the chinese characters for "Wei -so" ? I personally do not know what that is. I might be able to find some information for this from Ming's military history.

No, I'm sorry but I think it means guard battalions. Its the farming soldier system.

[tattoo]

I think he meant by 衛所.

http://www.china10k....z06/61z0613.htm


Sorry, I have no detail.

[General_Zhaoyun]

Alright.. the "Weisuo" 卫所 is a military system that Emperor Hongwu (Zhu Yuanzhang) created to strengthen the armed forces and to control the army. The armies of the entire country were grouped into "weisuo", which were spreaded all over the country. The overall military power was vested in the hands of 5 divisional commander's (都督府)hands, while the power for launching the expeditions and the deployment of troops was vested in the hands of the ministry of war (兵部).

衛所，明軍隊編制。明初，朱元璋接受劉基建議，實行衛所制。一郡(府)設所，連郡(府)設衛，每衛5600人，設衛指揮使。每衛轄五個千戶所，每千戶所有兵1120人，以千戶為長官。每千戶所轄十個百戶所，百戶所有兵112人，以百戶為長官。每百戶所轄總旗二，每總旗轄五小旗，每小旗有兵10人。府縣各衛歸各省都指揮使司管轄，各省都指揮使司又分別隸屬於中央五軍都督府。京師四十八衛，成祖時增至七十二衛，分成五軍、三千營、神機營三部分，合稱「京軍三大營」，是全國衛軍的精銳。另有侍衛上直軍，是皇帝的親兵，達二十六衛。洪武二十六年(1393年)有兵180萬以上，永樂時增至280萬左右。士兵有專門戶籍，叫軍戶，世代為兵。戰時，兵部奉旨調兵，任命總兵將官。戰後，統兵官繳印回任，士兵回原衛所。

Translation:

Weisuo - Ming's military organisation system. During early Ming, Zhu Yuanzhang accepted Liuji's suggestion and effected this system.

For one provincial (prefecture) government, there will be 1 wei, and for this, there are 5600 people working under a centralised command. Every wei covered and governed 5 "1000" hu (family). For every "1000" hu, there are 1120 soldiers. The chief of the "1000" hu is the captain. Beneath every "1000" hu are 10 "100" hu and each "100"hu had 112 soldiers. Every "100" hu governed 2 "Zhong Qi" (main flags), while every "Zhong Qi" governed 5 "Xiao Qi" (small flag) and every "Xiao Qi" has 10 soldiers. The county was controlled by the provincial military commander who in turned was controlled by one of the 5 divisional commanders.

There were 48 wei in the capital. During Emperor Yongle's time, it increased to 72 wei, which was divided into "5 battalions", "3000 camps" and "God-like Siege Platoon"..these were called the 3 big 'camps" of the capital and are the elite forces of the imperial guards. The imperial guards that protect the emperor amounted to 26 wei.

During Hongwu's period, the arm forces reached 1.8 million. But by Yongle's time, it reached around 2.8 million.

[Yun]

This is what I could find after checking my books on the Chinese military:

The Weisuo were only set up in frontier regions and along important transport conduits like the Yangzi River and the Grand Canal.

In some newly-established Weisuo, the hereditary soldiers would be drafted from the native populace. Out of every three households, one would supply the "regular soldier" and the other two would supply the "reserves". If the regular soldier was killed, deserted, or died without a son, a man would be found to take his place either from among the reserve households or from his own family.

The hereditary status of the Weisuo soldier was permanent for all descendants, and could only be changed if the descendant attained a rank of State Secretary (Shangshu) or above - which was very high indeed, being a second-grade rank only one step removed from the highest grade.

The wives and children of Weisuo soldiers lived with them in camp, which could cause problems because the soldiers often had to take additional jobs to support their families. This was especially so if they served under corrupt officers who frequently extorted money from them as bribes. In 1450, a court official named Liu Dingzhi submitted a petition to expose these abuses, revealing that while the food and clothing of a Weisuo soldier were provided by the state, he also had to pay a monthly "salary" to his officer. In order to sustain this expense, many Weisuo soldiers were moonlighting as merchants or artisans, thus neglecting their training. Others were even becoming loan sharks. By the end of the Ming, even the Weisuo units that were rotated for duty in Beijing were openly engaging in trade and artisanry in the capital so as to be able to pay off their officers and generals. If they were unable to pay, their superiors would refuse to let them return to their camps and live with their wives.

[Moping4U]

thanx Gen. Zhao Yun and Yun.