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Imperial Element and Color of Chinese Dynasties


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#1 General_Zhaoyun

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Posted 08 April 2005 - 09:37 AM

According to chinese calendar system, the Ten Celestial Stems (Shi Tiangan 十天干) are connected with the Five Elements or Phases (wuxing 五行) and their corresponding colors (see below picture)

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Qin dynasty chose water as their element and black as their imperial color. That's why you will see that most of the Qin costumes (Emperor's cloths, Soldier's Clothings) and army flags are in black.

Han dynasty chose fire as their element and red as their imperial color. That's why you will see many of the han costumes (Soldier's clothings) and army flags are red.

Four of these colors and elements are likewise connected to the four seasons:

wood and green - the spring
fire and red - the summer
earth and yellow - the autumn
water and black - the winter

What are the elements (xing 行) and imperial colors of other dynasties? Are there any special reasons why they choose their elements and colors?

Edited by General_Zhaoyun, 08 April 2005 - 09:38 AM.

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One should seek serenity to cultivate the body, thriftiness to cultivate the morals. If you are not simple and frugal, your ambition will not sparkle. If you are not calm and cool, you will not reach far. - Zhugeliang

#2 Guest_Goujian_*

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Posted 08 April 2005 - 09:50 AM

I don't think Qing has any uniform color. Look at their colorful hat and gowns. They have Ba Qi, every Qi has different color patterns. So gothic.

BTW, did Qin choose water because they originated in the west?

#3 Guest_庞贯哲_*

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Posted 08 April 2005 - 04:45 PM

You should probably exchange the color green for blue. Blue is an original colour, while green is a combination taht Confucius eschews.

Qing has chosen black(water) initially, distancing from the Jurchen's white(metal) and conquering Ming's red(fire). But while sacrificing for ancestors, Qing emperors usually wear blue (wood) rather than the red and black worn by most dynasties more loyally following Huaxia rituals.

The yellow(earth) color for the emperor's everyday use started in the Xianbei Sui dynasty and was kept in most subsequent dynasties. Tang's Li Shi-Min (Tai Zong) is usually pictured wearing everyday attire in yellow. He is famous for comparing the people to water. Maybe his adherence to yellow (earth) is an attempt to enforce control over the people, since earth conquers water.

On the early ROC "five color flag":
Red -- Han
Yellow --- Manchu
Blue --- Mongol
White --- Muslims in general
Black --- Southwestern tribes including the Lolo

#4 TMPikachu

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Posted 08 April 2005 - 06:37 PM

How did these colors come to represent what they are?
I'm just used to blue being water, green being wood/plants

so why was black picked for water, and blue for wood?
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#5 Guest_庞贯哲_*

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Posted 08 April 2005 - 07:43 PM

Quite hard to explain why the arbitrary association.

I recommend that you get an English translation of Sima Qian's "Shi Ji" (Record of the Historian), go to the part explaining the whole elements system.

#6 jwrevak

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Posted 08 April 2005 - 09:36 PM

What are the elements (xing 行) and imperial colors of other dynasties? Are there any special reasons why they choose their elements and colors?

Yes, there are specific reasons. Much of this has to do with the branch of Chinese philosophy often called the "School of the Yin and Yang" or the "Scholastics" in English. There is a great body of Chinese philosophy devoted to esoteric correspondences between colors, elements, stars and planets, dynasties, and much more, and I honestly don't know a lot of the details. However, one source is the excellent English-language introduction to classical Chinese philosophy, Graham's Disputers of the Tao. There's also a very brief overview of this school in Gernet's History of Chinese Civilization (the chapter on Han culture).
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#7 Snafu

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Posted 08 April 2005 - 10:35 PM

I believe the Sung dynasty's element was fire and their color was red. I'm not 100% sure though.

#8 Yun

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Posted 08 April 2005 - 10:39 PM

The element-colour system was quite complex, because each new dynasty had to take the colour that would succeed the previous dynasty's one in the cycle. In the Western Han, the Conquest Cycle (Xiangke) was used, in which earth (yellow) overcomes wood (blue), which overcomes metal (white), followed by fire (red) and water (black) and then earth again. Hence the sequence was:

Huangdi (Earth, yellow)
Xia (Wood, blue)
Shang (Metal, white)
Zhou (Fire, red)
Qin (Water, black)
Western Han (Earth, yellow) - however, Liu Bang is said to have personally preferred red, and had to be dissuaded from using red by his advisors.

However, Wang Mang reformulated this cycle into the Generation Cycle (Xiangsheng), in which Earth creates Metal, Metal creates Water, Water creates Wood, and Wood creates Earth. This was done so that he could identify himself with Yellow (earth), since he claimed to be a descendant of Huangdi. The sequence then became:

Huangdi (Earth, yellow)
Xia (Metal, white)
Shang (Water, black)
Zhou (Wood, blue)
[Qin not counted because Wang Mang considered it to be evil]
Western Han (Fire, red)
Xin (Earth, Yellow)

Liu Xiu, after founding the Eastern Han, adopted Wang Mang's system and also had prophecies produced identifying himself with fire, showing that he was the legitimate Han emperor. The sequence from then on was:

Eastern Han (Fire, red)
Cao-Wei (Earth, yellow)
Jin (Metal, white) - but for some reason its ruling house preferred red
Later Zhao, Liu-Song and Northern Wei after 492 (Water, black)
Southern Qi and Northern Qi (Wood, blue)
Liang and Sui (Fire, red)
Tang (Earth, Yellow)

By the Age of Fragmentation, the system was breaking down because of the proliferation of states and short-lived dynasties. For example, the Northern Zhou are said to have used black even though they should have succeeded Northern Wei as Wood (blue). The Chen dynasty is also said to have used blue despite succeeding Liang (red) - they should have used yellow. [This information comes from Liu Yonghua's Ancient Chinese Armour book] Furthermore, armies were no longer sticking to the colours of their dynasty, and were basing the colours of their armour and clothing more on fashion. Red and white were popular colours for soldiers throughout the Age of Fragmentation, regardless of the colour of the dynasty. We are also not clear about what colours the various northern Fragmentation states (other than Later Zhao) actually used.

The Northern Wei is an interesting case. They originally took yellow as their colour in 398 because they claimed to be descended from Huangdi. But in 491-492 there was a debate between two Wei ministers, Gao Lu and Li Biao, whether yellow or black should be the right colour.

Gao Lu said that the sequence from the Western Jin onwards should be:

Western Jin (Metal, white)
Later Zhao (Water, black)
Former Yan (Wood, blue)
Former Qin (Fire, red)
Northern Wei (Earth, yellow)

But Li Biao argued that all the states after Western Jin were not legitimate, and therefore Northern Wei should succceed Western Jin as Water (black). 12 other senior ministers supported Li Biao's argument, and the colour of the Northern Wei was changed from yellow to black in 492.

After the Tang dynasty, the element-colour system seems to have been abandoned. Officials were then classified or ranked according to the colour of their robes, rather than all wearing the colour of the dynasty.
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#9 Koolasuchus

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Posted 08 April 2005 - 11:41 PM

Liu Xiu, after founding the Eastern Han, adopted Wang Mang's system and also had prophecies produced identifying himself with fire, showing that he was the legitimate Han emperor. The sequence from then on was:

Eastern Han (Fire, red)
Cao-Wei (Earth, yellow)
Jin (Metal, white) - but for some reason its ruling house preferred red
Later Zhao, Liu-Song and Northern Wei after 492 (Water, black)
Southern Qi and Northern Qi (Wood, blue)
Liang and Sui (Fire, red)
Tang (Earth, Yellow)

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Didn't Tang just basically adopted the Sui imperial system and dress code, which makes the golden yellow the imperial color?

#10 Yun

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Posted 09 April 2005 - 03:11 AM

As far as I know, Imperial Yellow was a Tang development. The Sui used red as their official colour, as the Sui Shu says.
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#11 MengTzu

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Posted 09 April 2005 - 05:38 AM

How did these colors come to represent what they are?
I'm just used to blue being water, green being wood/plants

so why was black picked for water, and blue for wood?

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Blackness probably refers to the darkness of deep oceans.

Blue for wood -- I think the greenness of trees have a hint of blue. Also, I think the ancient blue is not exactly the same as ours, and there are many forms of blueness. I think the blue for ancient Chinese is sky blue. (Is the hint of blue in tree's greeneness a hint of sky blue? I'm not sure.)

#12 Yun

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Posted 09 April 2005 - 08:17 AM

I've explained this before, a long time ago: in ancient Chinese, 'qing' could mean both light blue or light green - the most accurate word for it would be azure.
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#13 TMPikachu

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Posted 09 April 2005 - 11:16 AM

In the Smithsonian, I think they call it cerulean. Azure to me is still blue
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#14 Craig

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 10:12 PM

I've explained this before, a long time ago: in ancient Chinese, 'qing' could mean both light blue or light green - the most accurate word for it would be azure.

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Yes. Do the Chinese have seperate words for green and blue? Interestingly, the Maya also did not distinguish between green and blue.
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#15 TMPikachu

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 11:13 PM

Yes. Do the Chinese have  seperate words for green and blue? Interestingly, the Maya also did not distinguish between green and blue.

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I have a hard time distinguishing them sometimes (my sight is kinda wierd, one eye will see more blue, the other more green). Those colors are also fairly similiar to each other, so it's not suprising.
There's been wierder things.
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