[Gweilo]

Was it common-place for diaries to be kept by notable individuals in ancient China? I am especially interested if this practice was done even before the invention of paper (while wooden slates were still used), say for example during the late Warring States period. Thanks.

[Sephodwyrm]

While there's little attention to diaries, there's a great deal of work trying to record the important events. During the Spring and Autumn and Warring States era the Shi Guan (archivists) went through a painstaking work recording and organizing the events. Confucius wrote a historical literature called Chun Qiu (where Spring and Autumn derives its name from) which is a detailed history of what happened in the state of Lu.

Of course, if you're talking about diaries, the most famous would be the one of Xu Xiake of the Ming dynasty. It describes his journeys around China and what he saw. It also included great geographical detail.

[Ghost_of_Han]

When was paper created

[Gweilo]

Ghost_of_Han, on Jul 13 2004, 12:28 PM, said:

When was paper created

For China, that would be the 2nd century AD.

[Borjigin Ayurbarwada]

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For China, that would be the 2nd century AD.

Cai Luen did not invent paper, he only improved it so it is suitable for writting, paper existed as early as the 2nd century b.c.

[Gweilo]

Ok, so besides learning about paper does anybody have any good examples of diaries or commentaries prior to the 2nd century BC? :) Many famous Romans did
this; I can't believe famous men in China failed to do it.

[General_Zhaoyun]

Chinese history recordings began in around 800 BC, and historians usually kept a 'daily record' of what happens in court. Can we say that is a form of diary?

Precisely, when Sima Qian went on to compile various sources and wrote his "Shiji", he went through lots of these diaries.

[wuTao]

Yeah, I'm curious about this too now. Were there no one interested in keeping a personal journal of private thoughts and feelings in ancient, or even medieval, China? I don't think a compiled history would count as a personal diary. A personal diary reveals more of the private feelings and the psychology of a man, rather than just recording the events that happened throughout the day.

[Yun]

It is quite possible that personal diaries existed in pre-Ming China, but none have survived over the centuries precisely because they were so personal. Most ancient Chinese books that have lasted to today were preserved because the imperial court considered them worth preserving, and therefore collected copies of them in the imperial library. On the other hand, a personal diary would neither have been accessible to the imperial court nor considered interesting enough, since it was the public career of a man that court historians were interested in recording. If they wanted some insight into his private thoughts, they could always look in his poetry or his letters (which was a part of one's personality appropriately 'packaged' for public consumption). Apparently no Chinese historical personage expected or wanted his diary to become available to future generations.

This seems to have changed in the Ming and Qing dynasties - we have the diaries of Xu Xiake and Zeng Guofan, among others. Can anyone suggest reasons for the new interest in diaries?

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Chinese history recordings began in around 800 BC, and historians usually kept a 'daily record' of what happens in court. Can we say that is a form of diary?

This was the Qiju Zhu 起居注 (Notes on Daily Events), kept by the emperor's personal secretary. It recorded every detail of the emperor's day, including the state of his bowel movements, for the benefit of future court historians. Of course, it wouldn't contain much in the way of the emperor's private thoughts either.

[Gweilo]

Thanks for all the input on this. I do have an ulterior motive for asking; in the new custom campaign I'm building for Emperor:Rise of the Middle Kingdom, the storyline uses the premise that a Xia keeps a personal diary, which is eventually made public as he nears death.

I realize now there is not really an actual example of this from the Warring States period, but from what you are telling me it is plausible that some diaries existed, so I'm going to leave it in the plotline. B)

[wuTao]

So how much of what we know of Chinese history is based upon accounts of personal journals? I have read that Ma Huan, one of the crewman that accompanied Zheng He on his voyages, had kept a personal journal of these explorations. How useful are his accounts as a source of history, and do they add much to official sources about the voyages of Zheng He? And are there absolutely no similar personal writings that have contributed to the historical record before Ming China?