[snowybeagle]

The Trưng Sisters (Hai Bà Trưng) led a 3-year resistance against the Han Dynasty. They were mentioned in the Han's historical books (范晔 - 后汉书 - 卷二十四 马援列传) as 征侧 Zhēng Cè and 征贰 Zhēng Èr respectively.

In Vietnam, they were considered as heroes.
In the Han's historical books, as rebels.

Anyone knows how their story is told in contemporary Chinese historical textbooks today?

Another question, according to Wikipedia's entry on the Trưng Sisters, the Chinese army resorted nudity to fighting the Vietnamese women, who fled as it was taboo to view the men's bodies. Is there any truth to this? (I found no mention of it in a Chinese book I read).

[Yun]

My General History of Vietnam, written in the PRC in 2001, presents it as an attempt by the Luo-Yue (Lac-Viet) tribal chieftains (known as the Luo Jiang, 'Luo generals') to protect their traditional authority and privileges in the face of an increasingly intrusive and standardised Han administration. This included their traditional sources of revenue, which were being displaced by Han taxes and corvee obligatons. A little like why the Perak chiefs murdered James Birch.

The earliest accounts, written in the Age of Fragmentation, state that Trung Trac rebelled because Su Ding, the Prefect of Jiaozhi, tried to restrain her from practices that were against Han law. She is described as "heroic and brave" and a member of the Luo Jiang elite, and thus a challenge to Han norms of what a woman should do. Yue society was clearly still quite matriarchal. Later 15th century accounts in Vietnam changed this story to fit Confucian norms by saying that Su Ding was cruel and corrupt and had executed Trung Trac's husband Shi Suo. Another Vietnamese historical text, the Tiannan Yulu, says that Shi Suo was besieged by Su Ding and died in battle, and the Trung sisters swore vengeance and rose in rebellion. Trung Trac thus became a good wife avenging her husband. In fact, a Age of Fragmentation source quoted in the Shuijing Zhu states that Shi Suo and Trung Trac fled together from Ma Yuan's troops and were in hiding for 3 years before their capture. The Hou Han Shu states that Trung Trac proclaimed herself as a King (wang), and if Shi Suo was still alive at this time, it's very clear that it wasn't the men wearing the pants in this rebellion.

[Sephodwyrm]

I would fight nude if that gives me chance to survive...XP

[snowybeagle]

I know it's probably impossible now to verify which account of the sisters rebelling was accurate.

The Chinese book I read described the sisters as being aggressive local bullies - and that Trưng Trắc killed the official who went to her house to question her husband over a murder the husband committed.

Anyone knows how the story of the Chinese soldiers fighting nude came about?

[Yun]

I've also heard the nudity story... I think it's a folk legend. I personally can't imagine the Trung sisters blushing at all at the sight of naked men. More likely they'd aim their arrows at certain vulnerable areas.

[snowybeagle]

The only warriors whom I heard to fight in the nude were some early Celtic tribes.

[Yun]

I have just checked the draft History of Vietnam written by my esteemed lecturer Dr Bruce Lockhart. It seems that the story about the naked soldiers is not from the Trung Sisters rebellion, but from another famous rebellion led by a Viet woman. She was called Lady Zhao (Trieu), and she is said in later Vietnamese histories (15th century onwards) to have rebelled against Sun Quan's state of Wu in 248. She apparently had breasts three chi long which she slung over her shoulders in battle, wore golden clothes and clogs, and rode a war elephant. The Wu troops led by the Governor of Jiaozhou, Lu Yin, supposedly defeated her by going naked, overwhelming her with shock and disgust.

However, there is no record in contemporary Chinese histories (including the Sanguo Zhi) of Lady Zhao's rebellion, and also none in Vietnamese histories written before the late Ming and Qing. She was essentially a character in folk legend who got recognised by the Vietnamese as being an actual historical heroine. The real historical background is that in 248, the Viet people of Jiaozhi and Jiuzhen did rebel against the Wu, and Sun Quan sent Lu Yin (a junior relative of the famous Lu Xun) to be the governor of Jiaozhou and suppress them. Lu won the rebels over with offers of amnesty and reward, and they surrendered. The rebel leaders with recorded names are Gao Liang, Qu Shuai, and Huang Wu - but there is no mention of Lady Zhao. Lu Yin remained in Jiaozhou as governor until 258, and there was peace and order throughout his term.

[DuncanHead]

Yun, on Aug 2 2005, 09:49 AM, said:

The Wu troops led by the Governor of Jiaozhou, Lu Yin, supposedly defeated her by going naked, overwhelming her with shock and disgust.

Interesting that it's Wu troops being described as naked, because Sima Guang has this passage, from an incident in AD 252:

"(Ding Feng, the Wu general) ordered all his troops to take off their armour, lay down their spears and halberds, and naked except for their helmets, swords and shields, mount the dam. When they saw this the Wei burst out laughing... the Wu troops were able to come up and, beating their drums and making an uproar, slashed and put to rout the Wei forward elements."

From the translation of Achilles Fang, The Chronicle of the Three Kingdoms (220-265): Chapters 69-78 from the Tzu chih t’ung chien of Ssu-ma Kuang (Harvard University Press, 1965), vol. 2 p. 112. According to Fang's notes, this passage draws on the Sanguo Zhi's biographies of Ding Feng and Zhuge Ke; only the version from the latter biography actually calls them "naked".

In some Western contexts, calling troops "naked" merely means they were unprotected, without armour (cf. the Greek gymnetes for "light troops"); could that be the meaning here? Or did the Wu army really have exhibitionist tendencies? Either way, it makes me wonder if this incident is the inspiration for the later Vietnamese historians.

[somechineseperson]

DuncanHead, on Nov 4 2005, 12:58 PM, said:

Interesting that it's Wu troops being described as naked, because Sima Guang has this passage, from an incident in AD 252:

"(Ding Feng, the Wu general) ordered all his troops to take off their armour, lay down their spears and halberds, and naked except for their helmets, swords and shields, mount the dam. When they saw this the Wei burst out laughing... the Wu troops were able to come up and, beating their drums and making an uproar, slashed and put to rout the Wei forward elements."

From the translation of Achilles Fang, The Chronicle of the Three Kingdoms (220-265): Chapters 69-78 from the Tzu chih t’ung chien of Ssu-ma Kuang (Harvard University Press, 1965), vol. 2 p. 112. According to Fang's notes, this passage draws on the Sanguo Zhi's biographies of Ding Feng and Zhuge Ke; only the version from the latter biography actually calls them "naked".

In some Western contexts, calling troops "naked" merely means they were unprotected, without armour (cf. the Greek gymnetes for "light troops"); could that be the meaning here? Or did the Wu army really have exhibitionist tendencies? Either way, it makes me wonder if this incident is the inspiration for the later Vietnamese historians.

Even if this were true, it was certainly not "exhibitionist tendencies", but just a military tactic.

Now if going "naked" simply means taking off one's armour, why would the soldiers of Wei "burst out laughing"?