[xng]

There are 6 different main minnan groups.

1. 泉洲
2. 漳洲
3. 廈門
4. 台語
5. 潮洲
6. 海南

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1.and 2.

Basically there are 2 basic groups of minnan. 泉洲 and 漳洲.

These two basic groups are distinguished by such things as

group "Sour" "Break"

泉洲- "seng" "deng"
漳洲 - "sui" "dui"

The final "ng" becomes "ui"/"ooi"

group "small" "buy"

泉洲- "suei" "buei"
漳洲 - "say" "bay"

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3.廈 門 (amoy) is just a combination of both these main groups.

4. 台語 (Taiwanese) is closer to 廈 門 but may have influences from the japanese language.

5. 潮洲 is closer to 泉洲 but it has influences from the cantonese language because it is within gwangdung province. For example, they use 答 instead of 講.

6. 海南 Not sure about characteristic of this group but that language may have influences from the hainanese native languages. There are some people who put this under a NON-minnan group. But I read somewhere that the people here originated from minnan and were banished to hainan island for crimes. So I don't know when they branched off from minnan. Updated: S consonant seem to be translated to T consonant.


Once you know the basic differences between the first 2 groups, you can understand the rest with intelligibilty of greater than 90%. Of course, there are words that were borrowed from the natives that cannot be understood.

This post has been edited by xng: 30 August 2008 - 07:34 PM

[xng]

The branching of the minnan groups and the time when they branch.

[xng]

As you can see from the chart, of all minnan groups

泉洲 and 漳洲 branched off in 6th century so their variations are the largest.

潮洲 branched off from 漳洲 in the 7th or 8th century

廈門 and 台語 branched off in the 17th century. So these groups are very similar to 泉洲 and 漳洲 depending on which group has the most influence.

A person who is from taiwanese would have less trouble understanding 泉洲 than 漳洲 .


The other NON-minnan groups like 福洲 branched off much earlier in the 2nd century and that is why the intelligibility is much lower. It has more centuries to develop their own unique pronounciation.

This post has been edited by xng: 03 June 2008 - 07:45 AM

[xng]

All the min groups chart

This post has been edited by xng: 03 June 2008 - 07:45 AM

[xng]

Read more about min nan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Min_Nan

[lifezard]

xng, on Aug 15 2005, 02:34 AM, said:

All the min groups chart



潮洲 was previously part of the 福建 province. As the land of 潮洲 is closer to 漳洲, the language is also closer.

there are some features of 潮州话that seems close to 漳州话, but really i believe that is because of close geography rather... there are a lot of other features in the language that are closer to the 厦门-泉州area.

besides, 漳州was created much later than 泉州and 潮州 (by carving a part of 泉州and潮州 to create the new漳州)

[xng]

lifezard, on Dec 31 2005, 10:41 AM, said:

besides, 漳州was created much later than 泉州and 潮州 (by carving a part of 泉州and潮州 to create the new漳州)

Thanks for the correction.

So do you know the actual origin of the 潮州 ?

Did they migrate there from fujian province or was that part carved out from fujian province and 'forced to donate' to gwangdong province ?

[lifezard]

xng, on Aug 17 2006, 04:15 AM, said:

Thanks for the correction.

So do you know the actual origin of the 潮州 ?

Did they migrate there from fujian province or was that part carved out from fujian province and 'forced to donate' to gwangdong province ?

chaozhou has been part of china-ruled (as in by the chinese emperor) region since the qin times... however the main bulk of todays chaozhou people s ancestors, probably came later, perhaps tang times from fujian.. if i remember correctly, many of them have their ancestry from Putian 莆田 or Quanzhou 泉州 regions. however as there were also small numbers of natives (who were there before the Minnan migrations), minority tribes, and migrants from other regions, the chaozhou dialect also acquired a number of features not found in minnan

This post has been edited by lifezard: 16 August 2006 - 09:37 PM

[xng]

I found the answer in this website

http://youth.ccaqc.o...o...0&Itemid=85

"Modern Teochew evolved from the more archaic Min-Nan. Between the 9th and the 15th century, a group of Min people migrated south from Fujian to the coastal region of eastern Guangdong known as Chaoshan. This migration was most likely due in part to over-population in Fujian.

Due to geographical isolation from Fujian and influences from Cantonese and the later Hakka, Teochew evolved into a separate language."

[taiji in motion]

From what you mentioned abor, how can" 潮洲 branched off from 漳洲 in 7th to 8th century but closer to 泉洲"? Would it be 泉洲 that 潮洲 branched off from?

Anyway, I recalled watching a CCTV4 (中国中央台4） documentary about 潮州 culture, it mentioned there was a high official from the north who migrated down to Chaozhou in 9th century, bringing with him his clan, servicemen, and more sophisticated culture at the time to the Chaoshan region. That's why Chaozhou nowadays has developed into its own distinctive identity with its own cuisine, opera, language quite distinguished from other minnan speaking areas. That is a form of Minnan already was spoken in Chaoshan and other areas in Fujian at the time - 9th Cent, but since there was this high official coming down to Chaozhou from the north, Chaozhou culture and dialect have developed into something distinctive today.

Fuzhou hua is not part of Minnan's, the same with Putian hua, Ningde hua and San Ming hua. Even though they are all Min's.

[lifezard]

taiji in motion, on Jun 4 2008, 07:06 AM, said:

From what you mentioned abor, how can" 潮洲 branched off from 漳洲 in 7th to 8th century but closer to 泉洲"? Would it be 泉洲 that 潮洲 branched off from?

whether, chaozhou is closer to quanzhou over zhangzhou, or vice versa. i will list a few of the phonological features and let you decide.. frankly i m not too sure myself

taiji in motion, on Jun 4 2008, 07:06 AM, said:

Anyway, I recalled watching a CCTV4 (中国中央台4） documentary about 潮州 culture, it mentioned there was a high official from the north who migrated down to Chaozhou in 9th century, bringing with him his clan, servicemen, and more sophisticated culture at the time to the Chaoshan region. That's why Chaozhou nowadays has developed into its own distinctive identity with its own cuisine, opera, language quite distinguished from other minnan speaking areas. That is a form of Minnan already was spoken in Chaoshan and other areas in Fujian at the time - 9th Cent, but since there was this high official coming down to Chaozhou from the north, Chaozhou culture and dialect have developed into something distinctive today.

Fuzhou hua is not part of Minnan's, the same with Putian hua, Ningde hua and San Ming hua. Even though they are all Min's.

not sure who's the official, 9th century seem too late for Han Yu right? But he's the one who brought the Chaozhou region into the Chinese cultural sphere.

Putian is not Minnan today, but it was historically much closer to Quanzhou dialects before being influenced modified by northern Mindong dialects

[xng]

taiji in motion, on Jun 3 2008, 04:06 PM, said:

From what you mentioned abor, how can" 潮洲 branched off from 漳洲 in 7th to 8th century but closer to 泉洲"? Would it be 泉洲 that 潮洲 branched off from?


Fuzhou hua is not part of Minnan's, the same with Putian hua, Ningde hua and San Ming hua. Even though they are all Min's.

I found a chart and its branches in aug 2005 and posted it here but now the link is removed by someone so I can't check the chart again for my statement.

I think you could be right, it should branch off from 泉洲 instead of 漳洲 when that high official and his men migrated to Chaoshan around the 7th, 8th or 9th century.

Nobody here said Fuzhou hua is part of minnan ! I said Fuzhou branched off in 2nd century from the Min family tree and that's why the differences are greater than those who branched off later.

[大泽升龙]

xng, on Aug 14 2005, 06:42 PM, said:

group "Sour" "Break"

泉洲- "seng" "deng"
漳洲 - "sui" "dui"

The final "ng" becomes "i"

This is very interesting. This nasal sound assimilation also happens in Wu dialect, like 点 (dian -> di).

Quote

But I read somewhere that the people here originated from minnan and were banished to hainan island for crimes.

I don't think Minnan people in Hainan were mainly exiled crimals. In fact, ancient Minnan people were very good seafarers, they colonised most of the coasts around China sea.