[General_Zhaoyun]

Fought between the Tang and the Arabs, it seems that western sources had lots of detail about this battle. For the chinese source, this battle was less-mentioned due to the defeat of Tang by the Arabs.

The outcome of this war I can say is the spread of paper-making technology from China to the Islamic world, and ultimately to the west. After the defeat, the Arabs captured many chinese, and from them, they learnt about paper-making and printing. I would say this battle contributed to the civilization development of the arab world. With the knowledge of paper-making, the arab world can now make paper and print their korans and other intellectual text.

(btw, welcome to CHF, TJK :D )

[General_Zhaoyun]

There is a thread at AE about Battle of Talas.

http://www.allempire...sp?TID=131&PN=1

[Yun]

Most Chinese historians regard the An Lushan rebellion of 755 as being much more crucial in Chinese history than the Battle of Talas in 751. The Chinese defeat at Talas could have meant the loss of their control over the Silk Road in the long term, but it didn't matter because just four years later An Lushan made it happen in the short term by throwing north China into chaos. Nor was it the Arabs who took advantage of this to seize the Silk Road - instead, it was the Tibetans.

After the decline of the Tibetan Empire in the 9th century, much of the Silk Road was taken over by the Uyghurs (although Zhang Yichao's Guiyi statelet held on to Dunhuang). The Uyghurs were mostly Buddhists, and did not convert to Islam until the 10th century. So the Battle of Talas also played no part in establishing the current dominance of Islam in Central Asia - this has also been discussed at greater length on AE already.

A "rematch" between the Arabs and the Tang would have been certain after 751, if not for the disruptive impact of the An Lushan rebellion. As it is, the Arabs never fought another battle with a Chinese army (unless you count the Mongols), and never expanded further east from Talas either. The influence of the Umayyad Caliphate did not go beyond Ferghana or Tashkent into the Tarim Basin itself. This might be one of the endless what-ifs of history: what if the Arabs had gone on to invade north China and even defeat An Lushan?

[Borjigin Ayurbarwada]

There is 4 claims that many people I read writes,

1) China lost its western possessions because of this battle
2) it caused an lu shan's rebellion
3) It made central asia muslim
4) it stopped chinese expansion westwards.


The first 3 especially the first one is absolute nonsense. As primary sources clearly indicate that most of the tarim is well in Tang hands until 790. The other 2 is also wrong as Ihsan and I already clarified in AE,
the 4th one is the only possibility, but it envolve illogical assumptions, the Tang's invasion was never intended for conquestbut rather a counter measure against a muslim attack. And even if they conquered, An Lu Shan would still force these garrisons to withdraw.

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A "rematch" between the Arabs and the Tang would have been certain after 751, if not for the disruptive impact of the An Lushan rebellion. As it is, the Arabs never fought another battle with a Chinese army (unless you count the Mongols), and never expanded further east from Talas either. The influence of the Umayyad Caliphate did not go beyond Ferghana or Tashkent into the Tarim Basin itself. This might be one of the endless what-ifs of history: what if the Arabs had gone on to invade north China and even defeat An Lushan?

Why would it have been certain? The Tang's goal is to prevent Arabs from attacking tarim which was acheived, there is no reason for the Tang to attack the Arabs again, as for Arabs even reaching anywhere close to An Lu Shan, thats just ridiculous, The most arabs ever possess in central asian conquests was hardly 80,000 in size, and the garrison of Kucha is extremely easy to defend, even the enourmous Kushan army is easily repelled by Ban Chao with a handful of troops when he simply shuts down all the gates.

[General_Zhaoyun]

Sorry, I'm not well-informed about this battle, I have a few questions:

1. Who attacked first? Was it the Arabs or the Tang?

2. What was the purpose of the attack? Was it to control the silk road?

[Borjigin Ayurbarwada]

The tang attacked first, it attacked because it herd the arabs were going to invade tarim basin, nothing more. No control of anything was fought over, no demograph changed.

[Yun]

Found a map in the World Book online encyclopedia that shows the relative spheres of influence of the Tang and Arabs (I've attached the same picture in case it doesn't show up, because the website requires subscription):

[Yun]

A figurine of a 7th/8th-century Arab horse archer:

[Yun]

A rear view:

[General_Zhaoyun]

That's a nice 3D model of the arab horse archer

[Borjigin Ayurbarwada]

that map contain large errors as usual, first of all, the Ordos is also part of the Tang empire, so were the Kitans and Xi of Manchuria. Nan Zhao at this time is also a Tang protectorate with Prefectures set up in it. While the Arabs never had the north indus valley, they only had Sind and the northern most possestion they had was Multan, far from reaching the Kashmirs and pamirs, eastern Afghanistan was at the time ruled by kingdom of Kabul and the north east by the king of Tukharistan

[thirdgumi]

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A "rematch" between the Arabs and the Tang would have been certain after 751, if not for the disruptive impact of the An Lushan rebellion.

I've heard that Tang general Gao Xian Zhi wanted a "rematch", but for some reasons he abandoned the plan, was it because of An Lushan's rebellion?

[Borjigin Ayurbarwada]

What primary source is this from?