[Lin Duanwen]

Hainanese is considered to be a dialect of the Minnan group. While listening to them, I can find some words sound like Hokkien, Teochew and Cantonese.

Below are some examples of Hainanese language:

son : kia (sound like Hokkien)

two : nor (sound like Teochew)

meat : yoke (sound like Cantonese)

Is Hainanese language a combination of the 3 dialect groups?

[kaixin]

It should be closest to Chiuchou (Teochew). The island was inhabited by Austronesians before being open for settlement. Even though it is closer to Cantonese speaking zones, most of the migrants who went there in large numbers were Chiuchous.

[Lin Duanwen]

kaixin, on Oct 1 2005, 03:42 PM, said:

It should be closest to Chiuchou (Teochew). The island was inhabited by Austronesians before being open for settlement. Even though it is closer to Cantonese speaking zones, most of the migrants who went there in large numbers were Chiuchous.

I think the large number should be Hokkien. When I went to Hainan Island in 2003, the locals told me that their ancestors were fishermen from Fujian. When they were speaking, I could hear that more than 50% of their language consists of Hokkien dialect. I was wondering how come the Hokkien dialect changed to Hainanese when Hokkien people migrated to Hainan? Why Teochew and Cantonese dialect can also be found in Hainanese?

[nishishei]

Quote

Why Teochew and Cantonese dialect can also be found in Hainanese?

Because they are directly above Hainan. Hainan is fairly accessible from the Mainland, it's not like Taiwan.

Also, Teochew were from Fujian too.

[AhMan]

what does 歐巴桑 mean? Is this a dialect use? I heard it means something like uncle. What dialect is that?

[qrasy]

kaixin, on Oct 1 2005, 03:42 PM, said:

The island was inhabited by Austronesians before being open for settlement.

That's not related.

Quote

Even though it is closer to Cantonese speaking zones, most of the migrants who went there in large numbers were Chiuchous.

Even in Leizhou and Longdu one can also find Min Nan dialects. Perhaps 'Min Nan' once dominated 'Guangdong' before 'Cantonese' 'came'.

AhMan, on Oct 2 2005, 12:46 AM, said:

what does 歐巴桑 mean? Is this a dialect use? I heard it means something like uncle. What dialect is that?

It's Japanese loanword 'Obasan'. Means something like aunt.
For 'uncle' I think it's 'Ojisan', transcribed 歐吉桑.

[kaixin]

It could be possible.

Fukien dialect is closer to Old Chinese. There were many waves of migrations into Guangdong by different groups. The Cantonese brought a language more closer to Middle Chinese.

[xng]

Lin Duanwen, on Sep 30 2005, 09:38 PM, said:

Hainanese is considered to be a dialect of the Minnan group. While listening to them, I can find some words sound like Hokkien, Teochew and Cantonese.

Below are some examples of Hainanese language:

son : kia (sound like Hokkien)

two : nor (sound like Teochew)

meat : yoke (sound like Cantonese)

Is Hainanese language a combination of the 3 dialect groups?

Please read

http://www.chinahist...?showtopic=6493

It is "neng" not "nor" for teochew and 漳洲 hokkien.
Are you sure it is "nor" in hainanese ? "Nor" is usually spoken by the 泉洲 hokkien.

Yuk is definitely cantonese, since hainan island is close to guangdong province, it is influenced by cantonese. But most of the words are still hokkien.

This post has been edited by xng: 02 October 2005 - 10:14 PM

[qrasy]

Number 2 as 'no' may or may not be a Teochew marker.

We know Chinese have at least 2 words for '2', one is related to Mandarin er4 while the other are related to liang3.

'default' 2 in counting is Ji/Di, as in it ji(di) sa~ si
As for 'no', Hokkien never say Jipek for 200 but nopeq instead.
As for the usage of 'neng', I think it's the same as the usage of liang3.

[xng]

qrasy, on Oct 2 2005, 08:36 AM, said:

'default' 2 in counting is Ji/Di, as in it ji(di) sa~ si
As for 'no', Hokkien never say Jipek for 200 but nopeq instead.
As for the usage of 'neng', I think it's the same as the usage of liang3.

Obviously you are not changzhou hokkien.

ji and neng (zhangzhou hokkien)
ji and nor (chuan chiu hokkien)

Read

http://www.glossika..../lessons/l7.php (nng is the same as neng)

Ever been to penang, malaysia ? The people there say "nor" not "neng" . The southern malaysian including singaporean say "neng".

Lin Duanwen, on Oct 1 2005, 07:39 AM, said:

I think the large number should be Hokkien. When I went to Hainan Island in 2003, the locals told me that their ancestors were fishermen from Fujian. When they were speaking, I could hear that more than 50% of their language consists of Hokkien dialect. I was wondering how come the Hokkien dialect changed to Hainanese when Hokkien people migrated to Hainan? Why Teochew and Cantonese dialect can also be found in Hainanese?

When people are isolated from the original place, the language will undergo slight changes and that is why dialects emerge. In this case, the basic language is still hokkien. Teochew is a dialect of hokkien , see my link.

This post has been edited by xng: 02 October 2005 - 10:25 PM

[nishishei]

xng, on Oct 3 2005, 03:29 AM, said:

When people are isolated from the original place, the language will undergo slight changes and that is why dialects emerge. In this case, the basic language is still hokkien. Teochew is a dialect of hokkien , see my link.

The only problem is that Min dialects are very much unintelligible with each other (I mean like Minbei is unintelligible with Minnan which is unintelligible with a lot of other Min dialects like Teochew). It's not just a slight change.

It could be the geography, or it could be different influences from different indigenous peoples.

[qrasy]

Diversity is quite a natural process (less contact with 'brothers'). 'Indigenous' people would have the effect of adding new category of words (i.e. heavy loanwords). Hai Nan, along with TioChiu, is said to be part of Min Nan (not other Min) but actually I've never heard Hai Nam.

I heard people use nng nng chia 两辆车, it ji sa si 一二三四, and nopeq 两百. Perhaps actually nng and no are actually related but everyone mix them together. But I've never notice any person use ji nng chia or no nng chia, or nng peq.

This post has been edited by qrasy: 03 October 2005 - 01:50 AM

[Lin Duanwen]

xng, on Oct 2 2005, 10:09 PM, said:

Please read

http://www.chinahist...?showtopic=6493

It is "neng" not "nor" for teochew and 漳洲 hokkien.
Are you sure it is "nor" in hainanese ? "Nor" is usually spoken by the 泉洲 hokkien.

In Singapore, "nor" is Teochew and "neng" is for Hokkien.
The difference between Teochew and Hainanese for "two" is
"nor2" for Teochew and "nor3" for Hainanese.

nishishei, on Oct 3 2005, 12:37 PM, said:

The only problem is that Min dialects are very much unintelligible with each other (I mean like Minbei is unintelligible with Minnan which is unintelligible with a lot of other Min dialects like Teochew). It's not just a slight change.

Teochew and Hokkien(Minnan) are intelligible. If you can speak Teochew, you can also understand or even speak Hokkien.

[ren]

Lin Duanwen, on Sep 30 2005, 10:38 PM, said:

Hainanese is considered to be a dialect of the Minnan group. While listening to them, I can find some words sound like Hokkien, Teochew and Cantonese.

Below are some examples of Hainanese language:

son : kia (sound like Hokkien)

two : nor (sound like Teochew)

meat : yoke (sound like Cantonese)

Is Hainanese language a combination of the 3 dialect groups?

There is also a separate Sinitic language called Danzhou I think. This was the true indigenous Chinese language before the intrusion of Minnan Hainanese. It might have influences from that.

nishishei, on Oct 2 2005, 11:37 PM, said:

The only problem is that Min dialects are very much unintelligible with each other (I mean like Minbei is unintelligible with Minnan which is unintelligible with a lot of other Min dialects like Teochew). It's not just a slight change.

It could be the geography, or it could be different influences from different indigenous peoples.

Yeah, one of those linguists determined that there are actually 5 separate Min languages. The Minnan language is just one with partially intelligible "dialects" under it like Xiamen, Chaozhou, Hainan...

This post has been edited by rudeboy: 04 October 2005 - 01:26 PM

[xng]

Lin Duanwen, on Oct 4 2005, 11:11 AM, said:

In Singapore, "nor" is Teochew and "neng" is for Hokkien.
The difference between Teochew and Hainanese for "two" is
"nor2" for Teochew and "nor3" for Hainanese.
Teochew and Hokkien(Minnan) are intelligible. If you can speak Teochew, you can also understand or even speak Hokkien.

I don't know why people always think that there is only ONE type of hokkien. The majority of "hokkien" spoken in singapore is zhangzhou dialect. So it should be called zhangzhou hokkien.

Hokkien is NOT minnan but means min language. and teochew is actually a minnan dialect.

"Nor" is also for penang hokkien which is closer to chuanzhou hokkien.