61 replies to this topic

[Tyler]

Who do you think was the greatist Han Emperor. I hear Wudi was a good emperor.

[asiaconqueror]

I think, it would have to be Han Wudi.. during his reign, there were a number of accomplishments:

1. Defeat of the Xiongnu

2. Consolidation of the centralised rule

3. Expansion of the empire

4. Opening up of the silk road.

[Tyler]

I heard from Ghost of Han that Han Wudi was gay is there any proof of this.

[Ghost_of_Han]

He was bi-sexual, the only proof I can give you is quoting sources, right now, I don't want to get into it right now cause I'm going to be doing a big peice on it.

[General_Zhaoyun]

Liu Ce, on Aug 21 2004, 04:01 PM, said:

I heard from Ghost of Han that Han Wudi was gay is there any proof of this.

Actually, it was Han Aidi who was gay, not Han Wudi.. Han Wudi was supposingly bi-sexual..

[Hauser]

There were three good Han Emperors. First, Han Gaozu. Next, Han Wudi. Then, Han Guangwu Di.

[god]

There are a lot of good emperors, Han Jin Di, Han Wen Di, Han Xuan di are all good.

[Ghost_of_Han]

A lot of success for a dynasty is based on the emperors abilties. And the Han was so unique, yet they (the emperors ) were usually always trying to better the countries. Those who didn't usually met with problems, that is kinda how Wang Mang came into the picture. He had watched Han aidi and those of that close time period, kind of just relax and enjoy the high power, so he felt the Han had lost its mandate. So he did what he felt was best for China, and started anew, he wasn't really that bad of a guy, he was working for the best, and he should honestly be compared to Liu Bang, and even Han Wudi. He just pissed off some elite people, but cause he had popular support of peasants, but then a river changed its course twice causing floods, and famine so he lost all of his support together, people I don't think realize how possible it was that their was not going to be a later Han.

GZ

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Actually, it was Han Aidi who was gay, not Han Wudi.. Han Wudi was supposingly bi-sexual..

Your right he had a couple favorites, that i have mentioned before. Han Yan, Han Yue, and Li Yannian. They are the big ones. I remeber reading that one of his male favorites actually seduced an imperial councubine once, and then was killed another one of Han Wu's favorites.

[Yihesan]

I would also say Han Wudi (Martial Emperor of Han).

[Sephodwyrm]

I would say Han Xuan Di 孝武皇帝曾孙病已 (great grandson of Emperor Wu of Han, Bing Ji).
http://www.guoxue.co...nsu/hsu_009.htm

He came to power through the support of Huo Guang (he was a little known commoner before) and understood the hardship of the people. He even changed his name to a complex character because his name is too common and he knew that there are many sycophants out there who would be punishing commoners for abusing his name (so if you have a complex name the officials wouldn't be able be able to "please" the emperor that way).

十一月壬子，立皇后许氏。赐诸侯王以下金钱，至吏、民鳏、寡、孤、独各有差。皇太后归长乐宫。长乐宫初置屯卫。
His empress was a lady that he fell in love with when he was still a commoner. She did not have a noble background, but she is a good lady.

五月，凤皇集胶东、千乘。赦天下。赐吏二千石、诸侯相、下至中都官、宦吏、六百石爵，各有差，自左更至五大夫。赐天下人爵各一级，孝者二级，女子百户牛、酒。租税勿收。
Imagine a situation in which renting from the government is free.

三月乙卯，立皇后霍氏。赐丞相以下至郎吏从官金、钱、帛各有差。赦天下。
The reason behind this was that his empress Xu was poisoned in her childbirth and otu of political considerations he had to elevate her to the status of empress (I think you guys know who's behind the poisoning).

秋七月，大司马霍禹谋反。诏曰：“乃者，东织室令史张赦使魏郡豪李竟报冠阳侯霍云谋为大逆，朕以大将军故，抑而不扬，冀其自新。今大司马博陆侯禹与母宣成侯夫人显及从昆弟冠阳侯云、乐平侯山、诸姊妹婿度辽将军范明友、长信少府邓广汉、中郎将任胜、骑都尉赵平、长安男子冯殷等谋为大逆。显前又使女侍医淳于衍进药杀共哀后，谋毒太子，欲危宗庙。逆乱不道，咸伏其辜。诸为霍氏所诖误未发觉在吏者，皆赦除之。”
When the former empress was giving birth, a bribed doctor poisoned the empress and also tried to poison the babe. This is a result of "lack of attention to security" by the Huo clan (a much better way to say instigated). As a aresult, the Empress Huo is banished to the cold palace (poor lady).

夏四月壬寅，郡国四十九地震，或山崩水出。诏曰：“盖灾异者，天地之戒也。朕承洪业，奉宗庙，托于士民之上，未能和群生。乃者地震北海、琅邪，坏祖宗庙，朕甚惧焉。丞相、御史其与列侯、中二千石博问经学之士，有以应变，辅朕之不逮，毋有所讳。令三辅、太常、内郡国举贤良方正各一人。律令有可蠲除以安百姓，条奏。被地震坏败甚者，勿收租赋。”大赦天下。上以宗庙堕，素服，避正殿五日。
No tax for the provinces that had earthquakes.

九月，诏曰：“朕惟百姓失职不赡，遣使者循行郡国问民所疾苦。吏或营私烦扰，不顾厥咎，朕甚闵之。今年郡国颇被水灾，已振贷。盐，民之食，而贾咸贵，众庶重困。其减天下盐贾。”
Reducing salt prices.

夏五月，诏曰：“狱者，万民之命，所以禁暴止邪，养育群生也。能使生者不怨，死者不恨，则可谓文吏矣。今则不然，用法或持巧心，析律贰端，深浅不平，增辞饰非，以成其罪。奏不如实，上亦亡由知。此朕之不明，吏之不称，四方黎民将何仰哉！二千石各察官属，勿用此人。吏务平法。或擅兴徭役，饰厨、传，称过使客，越职逾法，以取名誉，譬犹践薄冰以待白日，岂不殆哉！今天下颇被疾疫之灾，朕甚愍之。其令郡国被灾甚者，毋出今年租赋。”
Again, no tax for disaster stricken provinces.

四年春正月，诏曰：“朕惟耆老之人，发齿堕落，血气衰微，亦亡暴虐之心，今或罹文法，拘执囹圄，不终天命，朕甚怜之。自今以来，诸年八十以上，非诬告、杀伤人，佗皆勿坐。”古
If you're an old guy and did not give false witness or kill or wound people, you don't have to go to prison.

神爵元年春正月，行幸甘泉，郊泰畤。三月，行幸河东，祠后土。诏曰：“朕承宗庙，战战栗栗，惟万事统，未烛厥理。乃元康四年嘉谷、玄稷降于郡国，神爵仍集，金芝九茎产于函德殿铜池中，九真献奇兽，南郡获白虎、威凤为宝。朕之不明，震于珍物，饬躬斋精，祈为百姓。东济大河，天气清静，神鱼舞河。幸万岁宫，神爵翔集。朕之不德，惧不能任。其以五年为神爵元年。赐天下勤事吏爵二级，民一级，女子百户牛、酒，鳏、寡、孤、独、高年帛。所振贷物勿收。行所过，毋出田租。”
The emperor travelled around and relieved tax in the provinces he passed by and refused to accept their offerings (again "raised" by the sycophants trying to "please" the emperor).

冬十一月，匈奴呼DD35累单于帅众来降，封为列侯。(can't read character dd35)
The Xiongnu surrendered. It is bad that Ban Gu only wrote a line. Sima Qian would have described this even to a great detail.

匈奴呼韩邪单于稽侯犭册来朝，赞谒称籓臣而不名。赐以玺绶、冠带、衣裳、安车、驷马、黄金、锦绣、缯絮。使有司道单于先行就邸长安，宿长平。上自甘泉宿池阳宫。上登长平阪，诏单于毋谒。共左右当户之群皆列观，蛮夷君、长、王、侯迎者数万人，夹道陈。上登渭桥，咸称万岁。单于就邸。置酒建章宫，飨赐单于，观以珍宝。
Hu Han Xie Chanyu came to the Han to present himself. The Emperor told the Chanyu not to prostrate himself and the 2 leaders sat next to each other. A war that has lasted for several decades has came to an end.

赞曰：孝先之治，信赏必罚，综核名实，政事、文学、法理之士咸精其能，至于技巧、工匠、器械，自元、成间鲜能及之，亦足以知吏称其职，民安其业也。遭值匈奴乖乱，推亡固存，信威北夷，单于慕义，稽首称籓。功光祖宗，业垂后嗣，可谓中兴，侔德殷宗、周宣矣！
Final conclusion: a good emperor, focusing on justice and law, combining the various philosophy schools as well as the craftsmen. The Han might was extended to the northern barbarians and the Chanyu of the Xiongnu came to submit as vassal states. Is there a better Han Emperor?

[Ghost_of_Han]

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(great grandson of Emperor Wu of Han, Bing Ji)

Isn't he just the grandson? 73-49 Han Xuandi right?

Along with cutting taxes he was known for cutting officials saleries. But I didn't know that he got the Xiongnu surrender, I thoguht he didn't go o nmillitary campiagns.

But here's a quesiton I got who reigned before Han Xuandi?

[Shadowfax]

I have a question: Is Han Xuan Di the 11th emperor of West Han Dynasty?

I think Han Wen Di was a really good emperor too. He believed in Li Er (Lao Zi)'s school. He was benevolent, industrious, and thrifty. He abolished the punishment of cutting off noses and lags. During his reign, everyone who's above eighty were given presents. And he often cancelled taxes for those with farmland.

Both he and his son practiced the so called Huang Lao politics, which helped increase the population and public wealth. Later most of the money used on military expeditions were accumulated from the reigns of Wen Di and his son, Jing Di.

[Ghost_of_Han]

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Is Han Xuan Di the 11th emperor of West Han Dynasty?

Well I think he's the tenth. There was

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Han Gaozu (汉高祖), Liu Bang (刘邦), 206 BC – 195 BC, (Portraits)
Han Huidi (汉惠帝), Liu Ying (刘盈), 194 BC – 188 BC
Gaohou (高后), Lü Zhi (吕雉), 187 BC – 180 BC
Han Wendi (汉文帝), Liu Heng (刘恒), 179 BC – 157 BC
Han Jingdi (汉景帝), Liu Qi (刘启), 156 BC – 141 BC
Han Wudi (汉武帝), Liu Che (刘彻), 140 BC – 87 BC
Han Zhaodi (汉昭帝), Liu Fuling (刘弗陵), 86 BC – 74 BC

But as you pointed out, during Liu Bang's wife's reign she had techinally two emperors under her, Liu Gong (劉恭), and Liu Hong (劉弘). But that would still make him only the ninth emperor, but then I remebered that they was actaully an emperor that lastested 27 days named Liu He he was right before Xuandi's reign. So I think he's tenth? Could be wrong, what makes you think 11th?

[Shadowfax]

GOH, you are right, I think.

I just remember to check GZ's timeline and my book. On my book it says Liu He is the ninth emperor, and Liu Bing Yi (劉病已) is the tenth.

But I was confused because on GZ's timeline Xuandi's name is Liu Xun (劉询), not Liu Bing Yi. So I was thinking maybe Xuandi's name is Liu Shi (劉奭), the 11th emperor who has a more complex name. :lol:

Since Sephodwyrm has mentioned that Xuandi changed his name to a more complex one, so I guess Liu Bing Yi (劉病已) is Liu Xun (劉询).

Sorry, am I confusing you? :D

[Ghost_of_Han]

I'm pretty sure I got it. But what book are you refering to cause, I'm alwasys for a good book to look into.