[ih8eurocentrix]

i find the CHF the least biased and most well informed hisotry forum ,i learnt more about roman history here than other history forum, not saying that there are not some very unbiased and well informed members on other hisotry forums its just that there seems to be alot of noobs historians on them
Just saying thankyou i guess to the CHF

[esse]

I disagree. Sinocentrism is pretty rampant. It's though understandable and I'm not complaining.

[General_Zhaoyun]

You can't say CHF is totally unbiased. B'cos CHF is discussing chinese history, there is a tendency to be more sino-centric.. and I agree.. something that staffs hope to minimize but unavoidable.

[urofpersia]

metronomad, on Dec 28 2005, 04:05 PM, said:

I disagree. Sinocentrism is pretty rampant. It's though understandable and I'm not complaining.

And I disagree with you. For every 'sino-centric' forummer you find here, I am quite certain I can find one who is not. (I will let you be the judge of whether the person I pick qualifies as non-sinocentric) By 'rampant sino-centric' I take it you mean the majority of forummers here are biased in their posts in the sense of putting Chinese culture and history as superior to other cultures and histories.

Otherwise taking the meaning of sinocentric by itself it is an undisputed fact that CHF is sino-centric by the very fact we are studying chinese history and culture here.

[l0ckx]

General_Zhaoyun, on Dec 28 2005, 07:11 AM, said:

You can't say CHF is totally unbiased. B'cos CHF is discussing chinese history, there is a tendency to be more sino-centric.. and I agree.. something that staffs hope to minimize but unavoidable.

especially some american forumers.....

urofpersia, on Dec 28 2005, 08:24 AM, said:

By 'rampant sino-centric' I take it you mean the majority of forummers here are biased in their posts in the sense of putting Chinese culture and history as superior to other cultures and histories.

yes

[Kenneth]

The Chinese superiority angle manifests itself in several ways, although is far from universal it is vocal and present. It can both be an attitude to Westerners/Western concepts, tension over modern politics (more to do with insecurities than reality) or even smuggness over past glories and the 'central kingdom' idea. These occurs in several forums here although generally there are opposing views offered also, for my part it is tiresome.
The more vocal incidents are plainly a turn off from my interest in Chinese history and the whole 'us' & 'them' aspect which creeps in is entirely unnessecary. The inevitable comparisons with the West are are waste of time because I dont see Chinese history & Western history as a competition. It is a study of a society in itself.
The paradox is it is often Chinese living outside China that make themselves most vocal on nationalist politics and/or Chinese superiority, bemoaning Westerners from their PC while Mum cooks them dinner.
It seems likely they have been picked on.
Get over it. Kids are cruel whether you are Chinese or not.
Westerners (whatever a 'Westerner' is since it always fails to be explained) dont have to be an opponent.
Nobody should score points over another based on which nation you happen to stand on by chance. Pride is OK but contempt is not.
Have pride, not arrognace (as Jieming said) could well be taken on board.

[fcharton]

urofpersia, on Dec 28 2005, 02:24 PM, said:

And I disagree with you. For every 'sino-centric' forummer you find here, I am quite certain I can find one who is not. (I will let you be the judge of whether the person I pick qualifies as non-sinocentric) By 'rampant sino-centric' I take it you mean the majority of forummers here are biased in their posts in the sense of putting Chinese culture and history as superior to other cultures and histories.

Otherwise taking the meaning of sinocentric by itself it is an undisputed fact that CHF is sino-centric by the very fact we are studying chinese history and culture here.

I agree with this, sinocentrism, indeed, this is the point of this forum... rampant, no, this is neither the majority attitude, nor is it condoned by the admins and mods. It is not an east vs west thing either: as other have noticed, some of the most vocal opponents of sinocentrism here are chinese. The only topic where I could find something "rampant" is on topics pertaining to Japan. Even though I can understand it, and even though the most offensive attitudes are punished, there is something.

Francois

[snowybeagle]

fcharton, on Dec 29 2005, 06:27 PM, said:

The only topic where I could find something "rampant" is on topics pertaining to Japan. Even though I can understand it, and even though the most offensive attitudes are punished, there is something.

Not gonna get much sleep after burping junior from the pre-dawn feed - might as well contribute something ...

fcharton do have a point, though there's also strong historical and current antagonism in a number of earlier threads towards
* Britain (First Opium War, HK, 8 nation Alliance etc.), as well as
* France (Sino-French War; the French lucked out on that one, 8 Nations Alliance etc.)
* USA - well, enough said.
It's just the
(1) geographical/historical/cultural proximity of Japan to China
(2) Japanese war criminals in the shrine
(3) Contemporary movements towards revisionism in Japanese history textbooks
(4) economic disparity between PRC and Japan (inferiority complex for some)
re-open the wounds again and again.

Oft overlooked were the significance of Japan in providing sanctuary/support to Chinese revolutionists, education for Chinese military cadets (CKS was one of its graduate) and economic aid provided later (taken by some as rightful but insufficient compensation).

[esse]

FGS, I said "pretty rampant" -- that is several degrees below rampant. Chinese history is the point of this forum (I can still read the the url ), hence sinocentrism tilting isn't something to complain about (and I don't intend too). However, the occasional flare of nationalism and simplistic views of anything beyond China aren't what I subsribed to.

[Yang Zongbao]

No worries. Neither the staff, nor (I think) most of the forum subscribe to these views. While annoying, IMO, chauvinism and nationalism, we can't kill it at random either.

Of course, there's those people everyone knows ALWAYS pushes towards a certain agenda. And, though I can be mean and put some names here, I won't today

[ih8eurocentrix]

i started this post really as a thankyou to the forum becuase i beleive that it is really a good place to learn Real information about history,
however i have noticed the Defensive nature of members

[Gweilo]

I can't really add anything that Kenneth didn't state above. Sinocentric behavior is fairly prevelant here. It began to creep in as CHF became more well-established. I think it was probably inevitable. I don't expect it to change. I deal with it. I must say, however, that my contributions to discussions here have been cut way back because of it. I've traveled alot in China and have many photos and observations to share, but I honestly don't desire to put forth the effort when someone is just waiting to slam me (or my country).

I do appreciate the staff's constant attention to keep things in check, when it gets out of hand. Keep up the good work.

[snowybeagle]

Gweilo, on Jan 1 2006, 02:21 AM, said:

I can't really add anything that Kenneth didn't state above. Sinocentric behavior is fairly prevelant here. It began to creep in as CHF became more well-established. I think it was probably inevitable. I don't expect it to change. I deal with it. I must say, however, that my contributions to discussions here have been cut way back because of it.

Sorry to hear about that.
Hope it will improve in 2006.

Gweilo, on Jan 1 2006, 02:21 AM, said:

I've traveled alot in China and have many photos and observations to share, but I honestly don't desire to put forth the effort when someone is just waiting to slam me (or my country).

And I've been to China *zero* times.

Just wondering if the scope of your ideas apply to contemporary China or historical China.

[urofpersia]

Gweilo, on Jan 1 2006, 02:21 AM, said:

I can't really add anything that Kenneth didn't state above. Sinocentric behavior is fairly prevelant here. It began to creep in as CHF became more well-established. I think it was probably inevitable. I don't expect it to change. I deal with it. I must say, however, that my contributions to discussions here have been cut way back because of it. I've traveled alot in China and have many photos and observations to share, but I honestly don't desire to put forth the effort when someone is just waiting to slam me (or my country).

That sounds very interesting and *I* would be very interested in hearing your views and I am sure many forummers will also. As for some forummers... think of it this way, they are just words it can't really hurt you or your country (not at our level anyway) so ignore them, dont take them personally. Anyone who goes overboard I will be the first to report him or her to the mod.

As for sinocentric behaviour consider that they may in fact simply be a vocal minority, there are many more forummers who are not. Think of us rather than them.

[Sephodwyrm]

Who's slamming Gweilo?

Just gimme names. I'll demolish their rear.

Though I felt that sinocentrism from people that have never been soaked in other foreign cultures to be of a more natural observation and phenomenon. You cannot expect people that grew up and lived in a environment with only 1 culture to be more world-centric.

I had been Romano, Greco and Sino-centric. I am now Vicky-centric. Need to convert more pops into clerks...

This post has been edited by Sephodwyrm: 11 January 2006 - 01:16 PM