Chinese Peoples are all of the Mongolid Race

Subracially China is mostly of the Sinid type, this is all work from an German anthropologist.

Pictures

Tungid


Large Headed, medium Statured, usually a really stocky and robust body type, the stockiness is most likely caused by the mountian cold of Mongolia and northern China. the most common type among Mongols.

North-Sinid


A very tall, long and narrow faced type, the principle form of Northern China and the Korean peninsula and is strong in Japan.

Middle-Sinid


Common in Tibet and the predominant population element in central China.

South-Sinid


A major population element in Southern china, and common in northern south east Asia.

Palao-Mongolid or Southern Mongolid


A major population element in south east Asia, but also common in Southern China.

The geograpic ranges of these types on map

Thanks t00th! really helps me with my story.

I don't know where to begin. This stuff is so inaccurate it's laughable. Does your average northern Chinese ( Jiang wen, Yu Rong Guang, Zhang Yimou...) look like that 'nordsinid'? Or does the average central/southern Chinese look like the examples here?

Since a very long time ago, I have already seen rudeboy commenting on the first image that it's far from good. Wait... I'll find the link..

Also this is the first time I see "The geograpic ranges of these types on map", but I already think that it should not be accurate. I wonder about the empty area near the Amur river. Also I don't think Vietnamese usually look Indonesian.

The three I mentioned aren't exactly known for unusual or good looks.

alrite,lets not talking about famous northern chinese then,how about those regular soccer players from north china?they didnt picked them because of their looks.

No, their faces are too narrow to be Korean or Mongolian.

One word comes to mind here : stereotypes

I honestly don't think it's possible to define a set of attributes for a certain group of people, let alone a nationality. I'm ethnic Korean and my father is often mistaken as Chinese, my mother as Vietnamese, and I usually get Thai or Filipino (and more often now Japanese).

Just my two cents.

True but I think it unwise to overly stress such similarities. It can lead to gross categorization.

That's natural variation. Not racial differentation.

Just found the link I was going to show http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php...t&p=4767190

STRANGE DEFIANCE

Here is some Mongols

Some kids this sommer Naadam July 11. 2006


He is dancer, that is why he has some make up before goind on stage.


This old lady is Mongolian. but i guess she has mix with Caucasoid people.


These 2 are Mongolia too

The difference is obvious.

Mongols (broad-faced)


Chinese (narrow-faced)


Of course, one might find many broad-faced Chinese... especially in the north.

What are the differences between Korean, Manchurian and Mongolian? How does this compare with Northern Chinese?

From my experience northern Chinese don't look like Koreans, Mongols or Manchurians. But rather are much more similar to Tibetans and other Sino-Tibetan peoples.

Yup, that's what I mean. Aside from people in cities like Beijing (which was basically founded by nomads) most Chinese more closely resemble sedentary minorities within their own borders.

Northern Chinese are more likely Sinisized Non-Hans ethnically. Since ancient time starting from Huns till Manchus, Koreans, nomad or semi-nomads have accepted culture and language of Middle Kingdom. They also influenced China in its own way like military, government, language (like Mandarin) and human physique...

As i remember from conversation with Chinese friend - Southern Chinese women are very cautious of wife beating Northerners. so they like to catch Shanghai men who cooks and cleans.
even mentality is so different.

Verbal warning: Please stop the personal attacks on Conan.

Good DEFENCE
But it seems like somebody does no tlike name JOKER

I suppose that explains why northern Chinese don't resemble Mongolians, Siberians, Koreans or Manchurians at all, and why they aren't even genetically very similar.

The studies show that northern Chinese are closesly related to southerners and ethnic minorites, they have little in common with northern nomads culturally or linguistically and differ strongly in physical appearance.



Nomads aren't always on the move, Prism knight. Beijing was founded by the Khitan Liao dynasty AFAIK, and they were a nomadic group who settled within Chinese borders.

BTW, I'm no joker. The joke is your posts on Asiafinest about 'chimpnese mongrels' being the descendants of allegedly 'inferior' natives who were raped by 'caucasoids'.

im a new member in this forum member intitially under this username and i have great passion for chinese history and more on chinese artistic heritage throughout the history , i have looked at hundreds of photos of sculptures and paintings from qin dynasty through han to tang dynasty and other dynasties artistic paintings and sculptures. i am particularly interested in the different looks of ancient chinese people.

I have found sources from other sites on this issue and have gained information from looking at other people's post.
it seems that the qin warriors are tungid and northsinid heritage. with individuals being more tungid in terms of their faces. And some individuals with both influences.

The han dynasty sculptures i have seen are also mainly tungid faced people. The soldiers at that time , in fact many sculptures of soldiers look like the mongolian kamulke man posted on the start of this threadas a typical tungid face.
There is also tungid face of the qin people in han dynasty sculptures and also another look which makes the individual look like he has a balloon face. where it is very fat and flat.

Northsinid faces i have seen in many of the tang sculptures. although many had tungid faces too. Northsinid faces were very common in the rich people , although many common people also have that kind of face. My main focus is really on those individuals made into sculpture in the past. And also i am fasinated by lady dai which was found in hunan, central southern china. She did not looked tungid yet , she look very chinese to me. Becos of the reconstructions of her with han costumes. And her status of a han is very legitimate and highly undoubtful.

My personal belief is that during han dynasty many of the 7 warring kingdom's people lived in the main centres of its civilisation which is hebei and henan (correct me if im wrong)

therefore there were probably people which had the face of the kingdom yan , han , qi , song, chu,qin, and wei. Therefore by han dynasty all these people became han people almost automatically.

I think some Northern Chinese resemble Tungus-Altaic ethnicities. Certainly not the majority, but I'm surprised at how Mongolian some of them look. I find a lot of Northeastern Chinese looking like somewhere between a Mongol and a Chinese.

thats the most blantant statement i have heard in recent days. the majority of northeastern chinese came from shandong,henan and shanxi. not mongolia or else where

I don't know why so many people like to assume that Northern Chinese are sinicized non-han nomads. The Han population was always the majority in Northern China even in times of war and occupation. Even if the nomadic group assimilated, it sure was not enough to make such an impact on the remaining population. Even during the Mongol conquests in which Northern China was depopulated by nearly 2/3, the majority population was still mostly Han. A few thousand nomads cannot possibly alter or dent tens of millions of Han Chinese.

with mass migration going on from the 1980's, soon the difference of 'north' and 'south' will make little sense anymore. One of the biggest city in south, Shenzhen , is full of northern ppl, I don't know if we should call their children 'north' or 'south'. In the city of Guangzhou mandrain is now the most spoken language, while years ago you could only hear canonese on the street.

I Agree, it's just a case of some Korean/Mongolian nationalists who like to think Chinese culture is derived from them.Anyway, I've only seen a few Chinese that look Mongol or Siberian, most don't, at least from the Chinese I've met. I have a friend who has been all over Asia and tells me the same thing.

lol It is SAD that these pseudo-science of looking people's faces to determine their racial component exist in an academic forum like chinahistoryforum. It's funnier that those "terms" were originally coined by the German nazi and later expanded by some Internet posters for their own agenda

Good point. Given the sour relationship between Northern tribesman and Han Chinese in history, intermarriage between the two groups was only handful, but surely not common. Even if there were any, it would be not be significant enough to alter the Northern Han Chinese's Gene pool. DNA has attested that both Northern Han and Southern Han share the same Y-chromosome.

The only northern tribe that had successfully assimilated into Han Chinese was Xianbei by the mandate of Emperor Xiaowen of Northern Wei Dynasty. Other than that, most of the northern nomadic tribes either suppressed the Han Chinese or chose to live in segregation from the common Han Chinese people. Notably in Manchus Dynasty where the practice of usurping land from Han Chinese and lived among themselves was very popular in Qing history, it is known as "圈地". Manchus Government further prohibited any intermarriage between Manchus and Han Chinese. Only the Han Bannerman were allowed to marry with the Manchus. It wasn't until the beginning of Republic of China era where most of the intermarriage took place between the Northern tribesman and Han Chinese.

True, intermarriage between the two groups before the 20th century is rare but the manchus are now assimilated into northeast asia and intermarriages have increased.

Furthermore, how do you account for those offsprings where the mongolians/manchurian soldiers raped the han chinese women during their plunder of China ?

But I do agree that Han chinese is the majority but there is still some mongolian/manchu genes in Northern Han chinese people.

^Not a whole lot, but certainly present in the population, especially when I'm there to bring up the percentage.

j/k, but I have met quite a lot of Northerners who would normally classify as Han Chinese but bring up that s/he had a Manchurian/Mongolian great grandmother or whatnot when we end up talking about ethnic groups in China. One of my cousins is 1/16 Russian and 1/2 Hui the rest is Han Chinese, but her ID card Han Chinese and she knows nothing but just popular Chinese culture and Chinese holidays. An old patient of my dad's back in China was a full blood Russian raised by Chinese parents. He doesn't speak a word of Russian but had an alcoholic problem. His wife was Chinese and his kids were all half Russian, but even he had "Han Chinese" on his ID card and knew nothing about Russia. Rare case, but overall, I suppose it's something like a Caucasian or black American bring up that they have some Cherokee ancestry or something so yeah there are some "foreign" genes floating around in the population up North.

Keep in mind when people argue that Southern Han are closer to SE Asians and Northern Han are closer to Manchus etc. (If that statement holds any truth whatsoever), they simply mean closer which does not mean one in the same or originated from. Modern day Latin Americans are probably closer to the ancient Romans were than say Japanese, does this give Mexicans or Brazilians any rightful claims to the Roman Empire?

No one assumed,we just accept the history fact.What was the Han population to you ? They were original Hua-Xia and Dong-Yi then expanded to including other Nomadic hordes.By the time Genghis Khan's Mongol troops conquered China,Northern Han popuation was a melting pot if you've read through all chapters of Chinese history up to that century.

Han ethnic has always been an evolving race,as it obsorbed many Asia continental Mongoloid tribes.

True,Chinese population basically relates to many Asian nationalities more or less.

Define history fact



Very vague question. Care to be specific? What I mean by Han population are the sedentary Chinese peoples that inhabited Northern China Proper. During the Mongols conquests as earlier times, the sedentary civilization of Northern China marked a stark contrast with the nomads further north in Mongolia.



Melting pot or not, the majority of the population in Northern China was still majority Han Chinese. Whether it was the Jurchen Jin or the Mongols later on, the population of Northern China at the time was always majority Han even in times of war where depopulation took place. That was my point all along. Also not all the Mongols assimilated (Or the Jurchen for that matter), the Mongols were actually quite ethnic conscious and imposed racist discriminatory laws against the Chinese people. Either way my point still stands, the majority of Han Chinese in northern China are not descended from altaic nomads. It's not logical considering that Northern China had a population of about 40 million and the Mongols numbered perhaps a million or less. Even if the population declined to say 2/3 which would be about 15 million if my math serves me correct, assimilation of the nomads would still not have a drastic effect on the Han Chinese people.



Yeah but part of the reason why that is due to the fact that Han Chinese typically outnumbered its neighbors by drastic proportions. If anything Sinicization of Southern Aboriginals probably had a much greater effect on the native Han population than nomads mainly due to the fact that native Southern aboriginals were far more populated than Nomadic conquerors.

From reading a book all about Chinese art, I have read the ancient Chinese kingdoms have interacted with the people from the steppes. 5000 years ago and earlier as proven by the influence of styles in art from the steppes of that period.

But from posts I’ve seen in other forums I think that the ancient han sculptures of males and females individuals who looked tungid , their lineages maybe came from the gobi at least 5000 –to even 10 ,000 years ago (as I read in an English ancient Chinese 10,000 yrs ago were nomadic) therefore I think they had no cultural identity yet.

Unlike some of the modern northerner ; (which may be Mongolian etc)
one cannot call ancient han (Mongolian influence(d) etc)as they were not Mongolians and they did not culturally ;behaved the same as them or I doubt they even know that their faces once came from the steppes..as they came before civilisation has begun.

So therefore tungid faces are not Mongolian, in my perspective, they as

individuals(ancient han sculptures) were examples of one of the many legitimate ancient han peoples who were part of ancient china at that time ;;; be they tungid face or north-middle-south sinid faces…

Anyway quite a few individuals in Han sculptures (in fact many) I would boast to
Say have of a super-duper (in ur face) tungid face than most modern even
Mongolian today at least in photos I’ve seen and at least in my opinion.. So why is
Some people to say that tungid faces are always have to be Mongolian anyway.
When the most typical tungid individual was found as ethnic han in ancient china?

((but I think my opinions are bias)). Partly becos and I

Also I only said this as I don’t understand why some people believe Korean and Mongolians have the typical or more tungustic faces... Which I disagree (sorry) not after I saw them as ancient han sculptures or photos of modern Chinese people!?

In other forums I have read that apparently since very very very ancient times.. tungid faced people from the gobi was pushed south by other tungid faces people from further north .

What is important to me is that these tungid faced individuals had ancient han costumes on and body gestures..
that’s whats important in my views.))).

These individuals gave out an aura of distinct Chinese as do the reconstruction of lady dai from hunan.
Simply becos of their clothes and hairstyles.. in accordant to the culture of china at that time. Therefore ancient han was culture,… for us to taste a sense of ancient han.

(Now !!im really a person who believes mostly in culture rather than anything else)


PS: I have seen many photos from another forum of individuals which have tungid faces but are ethnic hans and all of them from central china (shanxi) (anhui) etc and some from southern china (jiangxi)
an online contact from hubei in china has also said that in where he lived there were many individuals with tungid face and the (super-duper) ultra funny look with a balloon fat flat face he has also seen!
These faces are Chinese ;;;in my opinion ; and part of han ethnicity
Not Mongolian or Korean!!!
unless they are from Mongolian or Korean as ethnic Mongolians and Koreans!!!!!


Do anyone know much about the invasion of northern china and the Mongolian conquest during the 1200s?
Is the casualties of northern han people and jurhen people really as massive as some suggest to be 90% at another forum!
Url:::http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=89035

or simply they moved south??
Its unreasonable why the % of the population is so huge… is there any other more academic sources any members can provide?
In an article , apparently during ming , northern china was very scarce of people but the emperor distributed the shanxi people to henan and Shandong..

Tungid-- high cheek bone features are considered to be beautiful features in Korea and Mongolia. Many Koreans and Northeasterners are attracted to women with high cheek bone, and I too am. Photos of tungid looking korean actress.

Click to view attachment Click to view attachment


Nomadic people all originated from civilized population center and they became specialized in economics of grazing animals to make a living. Around 6500 years ago, steppe population center started out around lakes, probably due to large lakes regulated the climates, and not as harsh as steppes and high planes. around 3000 years ago, these population center became fully nomadic, as tribes of people moved around. People who lived in China before 1,000 BC can't be called Chinese, as culture wasn't there. ( someone can dispute this and say.. no.. chinese culture goes back 10,000 yrs ).

i do believe that northern chinese still has majority han blood in them, still one should not ignore the successive waves of nomadic invaders coming in from the end of Eastern Han, the individual waves might be too small to alter the gene pool, but adding them up over the centuries do have them give a certain amount of contribution... not majority, but definitely not insignificant




yes, totally agree with you.. it has actually happened over the past 2 millenia, only aeroplanes and trains are speeding up the process like never before.... as for your comment of mandarin s status in guangzhou, i m not really sure if it s a good thing or bad..

if you are all very curious about how ancient Han-chinese look like, just google images of Terra cotta warriors from Chi-Shi-huang's tomb. It was recorded that all the terra cotta warriors resemble a live size human model, and none of them look alike. From the few I have looked at on-line, they are of more deep-south facial features, but seemingly a lot taller.

pretty girls of northern china.

most of this is just personal opinion, influenced by the sorts of people we know, seen, and whatnot. You could make general claims, but photos of specific people will always vary.

Though I think lookin' at bone structure, skulls would be neat

A few Pictures are actually useless especially for a rather diverse country like China.
I just posted them for fun.

Overall I don't think Northern chinese look like Japanese all that much. I don't know why Japanese are supposed to be same as northern Chinese when to me the japanese are darker and shorter on average and many of their faces resemble southern mongoloids.

Then again I'm not geneticist or an anthropoligist.

Just my opinion.

To me, most Japanese are lighter in skin color, but those who are dark--their skin skin tends to be genetically dominant, just from noticing that half-white and half-Japanese kids who have a dark skinned Japanese as a parent seems to be dark just like the parent. I would think the kids would turn out light skin! But it's weird. Maybe it's just by chance.

Could someone explain the expression, "sinicized?" Does that mean a Han physical influence to the offspring? Not sure.

Thanks,

Kimchee

I believe the term Sinicized is used in the context of cultural influence over the genetic/biological influence over different group of people in the region though. It's similar to the term Americanized in America now aday!

Ah. So it's a cultural influence, not biological. I understand. Thanks.

Kimchee

Holy....

That guy's head is like twice the size of the girl next to him.



Don't worry, most kids, if given a choice, speak Cantonese.

just a question.. how would u know if all of them are northern... do u know all of them personally?

No, the difference is not obvious. When you apply the definitions of Broad and Narrow (based on the Ratio of Width to Length of the face) both these faces look Narrow to me. And I don't believe it to be an absolute truth that Northerners have such and such features, while southerners have such and such features.

A question, could someone rank the order of the height of the cheekbone between these people:

Northern Chinese, Southern Chinese, Korean, Japanese.

I don't know, but why all are girls