Probes by archeologists on the hill have found traces of mercury inside. So when are they going to open it up?

They're going to open it up when they have a lot more money. The excavation of the Terra Cotta tombs is actually marked by some major disasters. The archaeologists want to preserve the tomb in the best state possible in the process of excavation, and that's going to cost money, not to mention all the resources put into preservation of artefacts that's going to be unearthed etc etc.

And not to mention the possible dangers involved.

Better late than sorry.

I don't think the problem is with the money. If the Chinese government really wants to turn it into a major tourist attraction, they could easily provide all the money the workers will ever need to excavate the tomb safely.

A show on the History Channel once talked about this, and it says that the resistance the Chinese have towards opening the tomb is that they fear of disecrating it. Given the long history of ancestral worship in China, it may not be wise to disturb the grave of the one of the most powerful and tyrannical ruler in Chinese history.

I agree.

well.. if the opening of the tomb can help to boost tourism, I don't see why not? However, it really can be a curse to open up one's grave.

China doesn't exactly need the boost for tourism, it's doing quite well as it is.

As someone else has mentioned earlier, they made a huge mistake by revealing the Terra Cotta Warriors back in the 80's mainly because not enough pre-cautions were made. I'd rather have China wait until they are absolutely sure that no parts of Qin Shi Huang's tomb would be harmed before going in.

Yeah..actually, for the Terrocotta armies, when it was dug out, the terrocotta soldiers actually have colors painted on their body. But the color has gone and eroded overtime due to lack of protection/maintenance such that by today, you don't see any 'colored' terrocotta soldiers.

A few years back, my family and i visited the Terra Cotta soldiers site, on the outskirt of Xian. very interesting artifactt; lots of tourists.

the site was discover by a local farmer, during the early 1970s, who was digging the ground to build a well. he has profited mightily from the discovery---royalties on books, post cards, and other artifacts.

phase I of the excavation was to unearth enough artifacts to stimulate tourism. The artifacts are being exhibited in 3 or 4 fairly large buildings. profits from tourism are to be used for phase 2 of excavation, using state-of-the-art methods.

phase 2 has started---will take several years---it should be completed in time to attract the pre-2008 Olympics crowd.

Qin Shi Huang's tomb is ~ 15 minutes bus ride away---less than a mile off the main road. it has the appearance of a small mountain. don't think that it will be excavated any time soon.

Is it so wierd to respect the dead though? It just seems to... 'exotify' things with explinations of ancestor worship and other oddities of the inscrutible east.

I don't think most of the Chinese even care about disecration.

Why are Westerners so eager to open up and possibly destroying Qin Shi Huang's tomb?

So Qin's bones can be put on display for American school children.

lol

I hope you're joking, otherwise that's really disturbing.

Maybe... and I say this only half seriously... they are planning in the long term. Let all the tourist spend loads of money viewing the current exhibits like the terracotta army, great wall etc. Then 5 years later, open a couple of tombs and then all these tourists will come back and spend another load of money, then 5 years later again open another couple of tombs. If they opened everything at once, people will only come once or twice and see visit a few here and there and that's it! This way, it'll be like a never ending themepark of chinese history like disney land. Only difference, they have so much to dig out they could make you keep coming back for the next century or two!

;-)
Jieming
DragonSeedLegacy

Considering how "capitalistic" China has become, I wouldn't be surprised if this was true lol

China also send some terracottas to overseas countries to be used in their museums/exhibitions. In my local Chinatown, there's a museum featuring some terracotta warriors and a chariot.

I don't know what the deal is, maybe it's contract based?

I spoke to the deputy head of the Terracotta Warriors Archaeological Department when I was at Xian a few years ago and he said that excavating the tomb is not top priority.... As of now, they have uncovered only 10% of the First Emperor's vast mausoleum with the discovery of those clay figures... Another 90% awaits (excluding the tomb)... so the tomb is not really prioritized first... Another reason is that perhaps they worry about the lack of expertise to preserve those artefacts once the tomb is opened and that items are exposed to air and moisture...

The ancient histories say that 700,000 men bored a hole at the foot of Mount Li to make a tomb for Qinshihuang*. A floor was poured in bronze and decorated with a beautiful map of China with rivers in mercury, while the ceiling was covered with pearls in the exact form of the constellations. A fabulous wealth of gold and jewels was laid about the Emperor's sarcophagus, and he was surrounded by special candles designed to burn for a long time. All Qinshihuang's concubines who had failed to give him sons were buried with him (I am not clear on whether they were killed and then buried, or they were buried alive). Mechanical crossbows were set up to automatically kill any intruder. Finally, for fear that the workmen who had built the tomb would reveal its secrets, the door was shut upon them as soon as Qinshihuang was buried, trapping every one of them inside.

It's a dramatic tale, but the part with the workmen seems implausible. Certainly a tomb of such magnificence would have required at least several hundred workmen to construct (leaving aside the 700,000 who supposedly bored the hole in the first place). Aside from the ten or so workmen needed to carry Qinshihuang's sarcophagus into the mausoleum, the others would have been entirely superfluous once the tomb was completed. Not being rich or of noble blood, they would have been very obviously out of place at an event of high ceremony such as Qinshihuang's burial. Surely some of them would have found it suspicious that they all were summoned to attend on the emperor's actual burial ceremony, and that they were enter the tomb itself for the occasion. Granted, this was Qin China, so the penalty for disregarding the summons to the funeral would have been death. But surely some of the workmen would be smart enough to figure out that the penalty for obeying the summons would be even surer death.

Sources on the Internet say that, despite all the precautions, the tomb was repeatedly plundered during the Han period. But my understanding is that the tomb is closed today and no archaeologist has yet investigated it. Why not? An excavation might reveal a great deal, and confirm whether the story about the workmen and the concubines is true; if there are several hundred skeletons down there, both male and female and radiometrically dated to the correct time, the ancient histories will be vindicated. If the tomb really proves empty, that at least will prove that the stories of looting are true. And one would think that a bronze floor would be hard for even a dedicated thief to steal.

Are there any plans to open the tomb and do some serious archaeology there? Also, are there any items known to have been in the tomb that have surfaced elsewhere? That would prove that the tomb has in fact been plundered at least once.

* I am not talking about the vaults of the terra cotta soldiers, but the actual tomb itself where the Emperor's bones lie, which I understand is about half a kilometer from the soldiers' vaults.

Hi Daniel

Hopefully someone knows more than this, but I have read that, apparently, the technology and/or techniques have not been deemed good enough at this time to prevent deterioration once opened. I have wondered about this too - wondered if politics are involved or something. There are likely to be a few reasons. It's a good question.

The technologies seems like a good reason.

Though a part of me thinks "why are we defiling graves, just to sate our curiosity?"

I have read that deterioration has been a serious problem with the terra cotta soldiers, and that the continuing excavation of the soldiers has been slowed to two or three each year while researchers work on the problem.

I did not know that deterioration was a more general problem with tombs. Many Zhou era tombs have been opened, and of course the pyramids in Egypt and the Valley of the Kings. Has deterioration been a problem there?

Of course, if China opens the tomb and it turns out to be full of terra cotta artifacts, they would have an archaeological crisis on their hands, so maybe it is better to wait. (By the way, I wouldn't want to be the first one inside to find out if the crossbow traps are still working. Some of the terra cotta soldiers' swords are still sharp, so perhaps the crossbow bolts are, too).

Is it more important not to defile the dead or to satisfy the curiosity of the living? My personal vote is to satisfy the curiosity of the living. Many Zhou era tombs, and other tombs from all over the world, have been excavated solely to satisfy archaeological curiosity. I see no reason why the Emperor of Qin deserves more consideration than other dead men. If, after I am dead, archaeologists think they might find something interesting in my grave, then defile me by all means! To butcher a phrase from Yang Chu: defile them, they do not know it - disturb them - they do not know it. The opening of their tombs is no more to them than the trunk of a tree or a clod of earth.

That's your belief, but maybe more people still hold special sacred fear of Qin Shi Huang.

Hi

Re: defiling graves

I must admit it does feel odd when I watch people handling dead bodies from graves. I think I have a healthy respect for the dead, but ultimately, Daniel and Yang Zhu are right that "they do not know it."

re: "I wouldn't want to be the first one inside to find out if the crossbow traps are still working." ~ Daniel

LOL! I was thinking about that too. I'm sure the arrows/bolts would all be sharp, but the firing mechanism might not have survived. Hemp?

yeah - I wonder why they don't have a lot of people on the job preserving the artifacts as soon as they are discovered. Surely there is no shortage of people! Haha. I'd really like to see what is in his tomb! He was a very superstitious man - he must have had so many neat things in there. Especially books on the spirits, transcendent immortals, etc. Not to mention other religious things.

I've heard the 700,000 figure before, but only in connection with the workers on the Qin western wall, and that they were buried in the wall.
There may be something in there that is of inestimable value. It has been written as long ago as SsuMa,
that the inside of the vault is a replica of the known world. I would like to find out how far the 'known world" of Qin extends. Will we find a map showing North and South America?

How wonderful it would be if there were books in the tomb! But that's a pretty remote chance, isn't it? Books in the Qin era were written on silk or on bamboo strips, right? Is there any chance that either would have survived 2,000+ years?

I don't really know how durable bamboo is, but I know that silk is very fragile. One of the great tragedies of Chinese painting is that so much of it was on silk, and so many of the works of the great Chinese painters are lost forever. As Will Durant pointed out, writing a history of Chinese painting today is like trying to write a history of Western painting after all the works of Michelangelo, Raphael, Titian, Rembrandt, and Durer have been destroyed.

On the other hand, that bronze floor map ought to be intact, though maybe with a fair-sized patina. And as Craig says, that would give us a minimum, if not a maximum, on how far Qin and pre-Qin exploration went.

But with the opening of tombs...

I see it as heavily one sided. White guys go into egypt, dig up the bodies of kings, the belongings of kings of all nations put in an American museum. But nope, you can't put a pope on display, because he's *sacred*!
Buddha statues have their heads torn off, put on display, but old Christian relics have 'spiritual significance' and are kept in places of worship.

At the very least, I'd like Chinese to be the ones that open the tombs. From what I know, that's how the Qin complexes are being excavated, which is nice.

Hi Daniel

The silk texts from Mawangdui tombs circa 170 BCE survived, and many bamboo texts have been found (e.g. bamboo Laozi circa 300 BCE). They are discovering texts somewhat frequently in tombs, so I think there is a wealth of information we will learn soon.

Not at all. White guys dig up white guys all the time. Think Schlieman at Troy, the bones of the Princes in the Tower of London, the ruins of Mycenae, old Indo-European burial grounds, Neandertal remains in Germany, etc. I personally have attended on the exhumation of a white person's body for medical-legal purposes

It is of course absurd to exclude archaeologists based on their race, but the Chinese appear to be doing a fine job on the terra cotta soldiers and presumably will do equally well with Qinshihuang's tomb when they are ready.

I have spoken with the Deputy Head of the archaeological team in charge of the Terracotta Pits when I was in Xian in 1999... And I posed the same question... "Why not excavate the tomb ??" One of the answers was that the terracotta warriors unearthed and the unexcavated tomb were small components of Qin Shi Huang's mausoleum.. The rest forms another 90 percent awaiting excavation...

Also, one problem was the technical difficulty of building a large dome or building to contain completely the tomb mould... It appears to be too large and the technical challenges to built a structure to contain it are great...

Another concern was the mercury... It was suggested that the mercury vapours once the tomb is opened would leak and be harmful to humans and the environment...

And of course, the often cited reason of not having adequate preservation techniques to prevent the decay and corruption of the artefacts once they are exposed to the atmospheric air... Maybe they should built a giant vacuum chamber and suck out all the air... Then archaeologists in astronaut suits would then penetrate the tomb

Yes, I was thinking about this too, but we know that China doesn't have the funding for such a project.

It is great to know that even silk books may have survived inside the tomb.

I admit I had no concept of how great the engineering problems might be. Domes, mercury contamination, even vacuum chambers, et al. I doubt that the tomb could contain enough mercury vapor to threaten the environment, but it certainly could threaten the excavation team's lives.

As thirdgumi pointed out, the funding available is limited. Given China's current per capita poverty relative to the Western countries, one can hardly blame the government for putting continued economic progress first and scholarship second. I say this further argues against making the tomb excavation a Chinese-only project. A joint Chinese-international excavation, by pooling funds from several different countries, could perhaps solve some of the problems Thomas Chen brought up that China presently cannot spare the mooney to tackle by herself. But is there enough interest in the tomb abroad to support a joint Chinese-international archaeology project?

If I was a millionaire I would lend a hand

Sure there is. There is already the International Dunhuang Project that has cooperation between the British Museum and Beijing University that could serve as a model.

Even if the tomb has been plundered dozens of times or scores of times (which is unconfirmed) there will be information from what is left.
I read in a book on the XIan area that the West Han emperors got to spend a percentage (like 10% IIRC) or the treasury EACH YEAR on their tombs...so those that ruled for decades were stuffed full of treasures. Around one Emperors tomb, I think Wudi, but I will need to check..there are still surface finds of jades and bronze nearby despite the looting of many many centuries. Even in Song there were account that such tombs were filled with precious objects and piles of rotting silks.
The amount of material in the QIn tomb is unlikely ot have been totally removed even in a worst case scenario (examples are Sumerian Kings graves that have been looted but still allow a lot to be learnt from what the ancient theives fail to find).
I wonder if it will ever be excavted however...and I think it is hard to decide on reasons for this not happening. I have heard the scientific ones, and the superstitious ones before...but fear of mecury sounds like a simple excuse with little basis. In the end we dont know why...but I think it is fustrating they havent at least confirmed if it is looted or not or use siesmic equipment to make the layout of the tomb without opening the ground (as they can do this), or gain some information without penetrating the tomb in a distructive manner. This could surely, or hopefully already has been done..
I suspect there is not the will at all for whatever reason, as there is a lot that could be done without simply breaking open the chamber. I will be in XIan in 5-6 weeks from now and will see what I get told as we have a friend who is putting us in the care of a senior curator at the SHaanxi museum.

I think something should be done...even for Chinas prestige! it may amaze the world more than the terracota army even has (and most people seem to of heard of them). Why not reveal a tomb more grand than Tutenkhamens?
I wish they would get a move on...as they could at least explore to some degree, they can preserve flesh, silk or wooden objects the moment they become exposed...but the first step is to learn the layout of the undergound chambers, and to see the size (or correctness of historical accounts) of what is in the tomb.
There is no timetable for this to be done, so none of us may live to know what is in there. A shame.
PS; it is worth considering how many relics are left unexcavated and are destroyed by the three gorges project..as moving temples or shrines pleases the tourists with what is visible but the real story is in the ground & untold. Figures I have for the amount of destroyed tombs & buried sites by this project show a terrible loss in the interest of progress.
There are good sources of information of this, and the small funding to study such threatened sites on internet articles....as well as the rush of looting by the local people who see a chance for money before the project ends.

I've heard somewhere that Japan proposed a joint excavation of Qin Shi Huang's with China, but Japan's condition was that part of the artifacts go to Japan, that China couldn't accept.

You're right. There are a number of non-invasive technologies available to at least begin underground mapping. And this mercury situation sounds overblown at least,...if not without any foundation in fact. The terra cotta soldiers have proven a tremendous asset to tourism and cultural prestige. Yet the lack of political will to continue the work at Xian is unexplainable; the reasons given for not excavating are flimsy.
More than the material artifacts that can be gained, the knowledge of, not only Chinas cultural heritage, but all of Mankinds, is inestimable.

It is quite understandable that China would not want to give up a portion of its cultural heritage before it even sees what it is giving up. But neither is it reasonable to expect Japan to fund an archaeology project without sharing in the gains.

A reasonable solution might be a traveling exhibit. In return for helping in the excavation, Japanese museums could borrow artifacts below, say, one ton in weight one year in every three. That way Chinese museums would not be permanently deprived of any portion of the tomb's treasures, but Japan would still get a due reward for its help.

Of course, there will be politicians on both sides of the sea ready to sacrifice scholarship to gain political points by exploiting Sino-Japanese animosity. But hopefully they will not prevail.

A few comments of what I had read in books on the Qin tomb:

Devices that can be used to measure metals below the surface of the ground have been utilized above the tomb and have detected a greater than normal concentration of mercury below............

Also, to my knowledge, the majority of sealed ancient tombs have long ago lost their supply of oxgen, the majority being replaced by noxious gasses, most of which would gag even the strongest of seekers. I've read where even the modern day tombraider usually is equipped with gas mask before entering. Contents of tombs have had a slow, thousands of years timeframe to slowly adapt to changing tomb conditions. The problem becomes when opening them, the adaptation of conditions back to pure oxygen occurs in seconds or minutes. That's what virtually disintegrated the paint off the terracotta soldiers once that part of the tomb was opened.

So to preserve the "gasses" inside the tomb from changing too quickly and possibly destroying parts of some artifacts as occurred with the soldiers, the technology to preserve would have to be developed in lab conditions, and likely tried out in smaller tombs before they end up opening what in essence is likely the mother of all tombs.

You can't really blame the Chinese government for being appropriately conservative despite the potential finds inside. If it's ever opened, this is the kind of event worth watching on live tv for day after day.

Steve

the poisonous mercury and the noxious gasses is kind of irrelevant when even basic safety equipment people wear when painting or spraying pesticides on their garden like I have at home would end that objection. Mercury doesnt have to mean people are going to die like a fly with a squirt of flyspray.
I havent heard of specific 'noxious' gasses in tombs anyway, although organic gasses can be sealed inside IF it is sealed and hasnt been looted before (which would surprise me if it hasn't over the last 2,200 years) then there could be gasses, but must tombs arent airtight anyway.
The idea that the items will be destroyed by exposure is only partially true, but it is only if items of that type exist still (i.e delicate wood or fabric or flesh that hasnt rotted away a thousand years ago) where as other items (such as ceramics, bronze, jade or bone and some wood) can survive indefinetely on the surface without special treatment.
Paint on ceramics doesnt fade quite so instantly as all that either it would be lost by moisture or light but they could avoid that easy enough by using UV or IR lighting and just covering the dig with even a tent, and if the enviroment or the individual items are stabilised it would for most require little more than putting it in a dry container or sealed plastic bag before removal to a place of preservation.
.....Traces of paint on ceramics can remain in part on completely unpreserved items so I expect most of the damage is done during the centuries before as the terracota warriors were looted and the pits set on fire and then buried in the earth. Traces remain allowing reconstruction even on those pieces that seem to be unpainted to the naked eye. I am aware one rather more vividly painted piece turned up and I will try to remember to find out details on this and why it was different. (probably just a lucky one)

The main thing that I will ask on while in Xian is if there has been a mapping of chambers by ground penetrating radar, and if they know if there are objects or chambers or ramps, or single shaft tombs or what they know so far.
The detecting of mercury from above ground sounds a little fishy to me, so I am not sure about that.....but they could get information on shapes and densities of objects below.

The real reason for inaction remains to be seen, but we have heard a variety of excuses. Some of them are fairly baseless and some of them are partially correct.
The 'wait till technology catches up' one is best, but even if we are told that we dont know if that is the only concern of if other factors both financial and political prevent progress.
Some people might just want to leave the tomb undisturbed (like my wife) but I say "Get a move on!"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Note; some extra info added here as I have returned from Xian and it is many weeks later.
There are numerous warriors found with paint, but the attempts to preserve them to not please the joint German/CHinese team there so it is better to leave them buried. Paint on Han and Tang ceramics seems to survive much better for some reason.
Certain sections of the pits have even been reburied to preserve them better.
They have been working for 30 years and are nowhere near finished.
I was told however when I made enquiries at Shaanxi museum that the tomb should be as described by SIma Qian and that there was a measurement that shows mercury has leeched into the soil.
I could see charcoal from fires lit in the pits during the end of QIn also. Not much, as they may have choked as the underground chambers may have filled with smoke. SOme signs of burning could be seen at two of the 3 pits.
There is no fear of mercury of noxious gases though. That wont factor into it.....the only consistent reason given for all the tombs that are unopened (including even larger Imperial West Han & Tang ones) is that they are to be left for future generations.
It was commented that when they are opened that they will amaze the world with the contents. many of the largest tombs seem to have not been robbed, as the scale is just so huge.
when the are opened I agree, it will amaze the world, as there are items even found outside of such tombs that are national treasures. Satellite pits are where much of the best artefacts have come from to date, and the most famous Emperors have not been disturbed.
It is a shame that they may not be in my lifetime, although several minor tombs in such places have been excavated...many in the 1960's.
see some tomb examples at;
http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php...t=15&p=4733303&

Here's some online reading on the tomb:

http://www.cnhomestay.com/city/terracotta/burial.htm

It could be a fengshui problem. Since Qin Huangdi's tomb was excavated by chance during PRC era, they are afraid they might be cursed if they open it?

I know the PRC has high respect for Qin Shihuangdi.

Yeah, nobody reallys wants to disturb the first emperor. I am still kind of superstitious. Most CPC members, though nominally atheist, do have some mixed feelings about ancestors. Who knows?

If anything is excavated, it should remain in the possession of China (though a few artefacts could go on tour)

If QinshiHuangdi himself is found... I think they should leave him where he is. The Vatican doesn't put dead Popes in museum displays, y'know?

and then apologize to Qinshihuangdi, and tell him we're only doing this because he's such an awesome guy.

I heard about the tomb, 700,000 stone soldiers guarding the tomb of the First Emperor. I pretty much agree with TMPikachu, if they found his body it should be left where it is as a reminder of his reign.

This is quite different from any other excivation I would think, y'know?

When I think of excavations... what comes to mind is a white scientist in a foreign land digging up kings of a civilization long gone.
Like King Tut- excavated by British dudes and Egypt isn't ruled by Pharoahs anymore.

If China really IS that many thousands of years old, it means QinShiHuangDi is still one of China's leaders (former, and dead). The US doesn't put George Washington's bones on display, y'know?

You make a good point, tombs are after all tombs even with what ever valuable that may rest inside. Things like these should be left alone to preserve the history of its country and its moments in our time.

I agree, the bones of Qinshihuang should not be put on public display.

I do hope that scientists will be allowed access to the bones periodically. A huge amount has been learned from the bones of Napoleon and Tutankhamun, including evidence that both were murdered. Analysis of Qinshihuang's bones would tell us at least how tall he was, possibly what diseases he suffered from, whether he suffered serious injuries in his war-torn life, and perhaps what caused him to die so mysteriously in middle age.

But once the scientists are done with their work, I think the bones should go back in the sarcophagus that was made for them.

Once they opened the sarcophagus, they will have to preserve the bones very well, there is no way they put the bones back in and hope it would not rot.

First off, the deal between the Chinese govement and Japan fell throu becourse the Japanese sought rights NOT for any artifacts, but for a monopoly like they have over visual representations wether pictures or film of the Michelangelos fresko in the Sixtines chapel.
They payed for years long resturations of the dome and paintings in the chapel, in return they demanded and got sole rights to any pictures and the like for period of 15 years (Or 20, can't quite remember).

Mostly it must be a matter of national pride, that the PRC has not sought outside help or financing, since any museum or combination of museums the world over would give their right arm and all the expertice they have just to get the oppotuinity to be a junior partner in that projekt, even if they were the ones paying most of the bill and supplied the ekspertice.
Secondly, it would be a logistical nightmare to build the temperature and humidity controlled domes to protect the various finds proberbly, not to mention making an infra structure that would support the masses of people that would make virtual pilgrims travels out off visiting the site.
Another thing is that i would guess that the confirmed body of Qinshihuang, could very well be a symbol and rallying point for a rather large part of the population, that seeks everything from *China uber alles* to annoyed peope on the streets that have a hard time getting by. in short he could be a symbol and focalpoint for a variety of malcontents! whit the problems to follow.

A quistion, is there anybody in here that would not be temptet to pay heafty prices just to be able to see the great unifirer?l