How's it like to do biz in China? My fren's family did biz there but failed because their competitors "spent" more money on relations with officials and customers and gang up with other competitors to chase my fren's biz out... Any tips to survive in China? Anyone?

If one has that vantage and maintains. He prevails in most cases.

It's important to perform tons of intelligence gathering and covert action before entering the game. Most ppl don't do that.

Once that occurs, all about performing proper strategic assessments (計), then determing whether it is worth the price to enter the game ( 作戰).

During that process, intelligence gathering (用間) must be maintained.

When one knows himself and the opposition quite well. 知己知彼, 百戰百勝
There's a chance that he might survive.

In the global economy, forget about surviving. Focus on gaining a corner in that game arena, creating balance, then dominating and controlling.


[ 百戰百勝，非善之善也；不戰而屈人之兵，善之善者也
"One hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the most skillful.
Seizing the enemy without fighting is the most skillful. ..."]

This action originated from a great amt of prestaging and pre-positioning.


Good luck!

It's easy to talk soldiers on paper....As I said in my 1st post, my fren's family biz bfrom Africa got 'kicked' out because the competitors used money to get the officials against my fren's family...
Ur theories are very easy to say....I also know but u think so easy to implement meh?

You need to find the right partner (I mean locals over there), who can assist you in business over there.
In China, sometimes it's not easy to find the 'right partner' who are willing to work with you.

If it was easy to implement, there would be winners everywhere and no losers. But we all know that this is not how things work in the real world. As GZ mentioned, find a good business partner and do your due diligence. My company current has a partnership with a chinese company which was recommended by a friend. Things are ok so far, but i'm still on my guard at all times. Keep your kawan kawan(friends) close, and your enemy closer

There is a chinese saying "Shang Chang Ru Zhan Chang 商场如战场" (Business Arena is like a War Zone).

Business relationships works in a similar way to international relationships. In business, there is never a true permanent friend. Neither is there be a true permanent enemy. Friends can be enemy one day, and enemy can be friends one day. Business relationship works on common business interests. Where there are mutual interests (a win-win situation), there will be possibility of friendship/partnership/co-operation. Where there are mutual conflicts, there will be possibility of competition/enemy. This is the nature of business.

In Sun Tzu's Art of Business, your customer and market are your target. Instead of fighting straight against your competitor (your enemy) launching price war etc, you should target direct your resources towards your customer and market. This is what's known as non-frontational warfare exemplified in Sun Tzu's Art of Business: 不戰而屈人之兵，善之善者也 (seizing the enemy without fighting is the most skillful).

To target your market and your customer, it is important to gather as much resources and information (intelligence collection) through your partners, customers, your staffs in the company etc.
As Sun Tzu says " 知己知彼, 百戰百勝" (When one knows himself and the opposition quite well.
There's a chance that he might survive.)

It's not easy to venture into Chinese market. But those who succeed will usually make a big fortune out of it. You need to know more people in the local chinese market, and through their connections make full use of them to benefit your business.

Although trust is always talked about in chinese business, it's not strange to find deception in the business in China. One will have to play smart and know the Art of War to play the chinese business game. You will always have to keep alert and be careful and not trust someone 100%.

In fact, in China, sometimes signing sales contract doesn't even guarantee that you will receive your sales payment.

I was thinking that if u set up a unique or competely new product in China (like curry puffs in Harbin), would that help in less competition?

Nope, once your competitors get wind of your product, they will reproduce what you have exactly and you can't sue them since IP laws are non-existent in China(the last heavenly bastion of pirates)

GZ, which "Art of business" book are you referring to? Kinokuniya bookstore turned up 3 results

http://bookweb.kinokuniya.co.jp/guest/cgi-...%75&AREA=04

You will have to do an investigation (market survey) on 'taste-liking' of the people living in Harbin before launching a new product (like curry puffs in Harbin). I'm not sure if curry puffs are already sold there, but if it's not available there, it could be chance to market them into that region (it's your duty to find out whether it's already there).

To find out, you can just visit the shops in Harbin and find out if curry puffs are available there. Check out the population of the region as well as demography of the region.

Whether curry puffs will sell at that region will depend on:

1. Taste-liking of the local people. Some people might not like spicy food. In fact, I heard that only Sichuan region prefer spicy food. It is your duty to find out the taste-liking of the local people there.

2. Other factors of influence include:

a. Religious - some people might be vegetarian

b. Climate - Harbin is quite cold, selling ice-cream is not feasible, but maybe curry puffs

c. Cultural - If you can market the product by a 'cultural slogan/connection', it can help in your advertising campaign.

d. Your capital - How much money do you have to invest in your business? You can play safe by having a small budget and start small, then gradually expand

After having done all market survey and feasibility studies, it's important to make a business plan how you are going to implement it, finding the right people to help you etc.

Language plays an important role in China business. You virtually will not be able to do any business in China if you do not know the chinese language and culture.

"Art of Business" was a term which I came across after I attended a seminar on Sun Tzu's application on business at Singapore Chinese Chamber of Commerce 2 weeks ago. Instead of calling it "Sunzi Bingfa 孙子兵法", the speaker called it "Sunzi Shangfa 孙子商法" (Sun Tzu's Art of Business)

So how any strategies to prevent measures of competitors to use $$ or gifts to give officials in China to chase you out? If cannot be prevent, how to counter them?

Whether one is in China, Japan or USA, there is no such thing as free enterprise. It's all about degrees of free enterprise.

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Since we heard one side of the story with some basic generalities. Will presume that your friend's family did everything legal and proper.

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Let me delineate an abridged set of questions in what should been known and done?

* Do you know the rule of "knowing the marketplace before entering it"?
[as Sun Zi said, "Winning the war before entering the initial battle"]

* Did your friend's family perform proper market research in terms of understanding the marketplace and the type of competitors out there?

* Did your friend's family perform proper market research regarding to the history of the marketplace and who is in control of it?

* Did your friend's family identify who is in control of the marketplace and know why they are in control?

* Did your friend family develop a business plan that assess the whole marketplace and calculate what are the odds for succeeding and failing?

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Paraphrasing your question: What to do about paying off the government officials!?
Without getting too personal, this Cardinal recommend the employment of local guides with grand influence who can steer you away from those problems or minimize the effect of those problems

Suggest the initial reading of Sun Zi AoW chapter 1-3 and chapter 13.


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Nothing comes free in terms of strategy and tactical preparation. If you put zero money in this process of pre-staging and you will get nothing in return.

The Six P's of Preparation: [ "Proper preparation prevents pissed poor performance".]
Remember this guideline: ["Failure to prepare is to prepare for failure".]

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In terms of Sun Tzu and The Art of Business, recommend the book from Mark McNeilly.

Know him well and his material is successfully proven in the Fortune 100 marketplace.

Suggestion: Take some classes in economics and strategy before jumping into the game.
Or find someone to mentor your friend's family. (It will not be cheap)

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My associate taught me the secret of strategy development is asking the right question(s) at right time.
(@ least, be consciously aware of it.)

Did your friend's family ask some of those questions before they entered the marketplace?
Or Did they get a 领悟 perception of the marketplace?

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In terms of dealing w. corrupted officials, speak softly but carry a sharp sword.

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Since everyone (govt and competitors) know your friend's family, would be quite difficult to surprise them w. some unique tactical strategy.

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Wish you and your friend's family well in the endeavor.

the point is, my fren's family got K.O. mainly becuase of the underhand/under table methods....so wat do u think? Maybe they did not do enough research and some of ur points u made is correct, cardinal009.....
I dont really noe as this is my fren personal matter

Some of my points are correct!?

You bought up a point of your friend's family being TKO.

Members of the forum assess the (+'s) and (-'s) of the situation.

History always repeat itself in terms of people not researching or asking the qualified professionals for guidance.

It's like ["shooting a basketball"]. One has to be ["ready"] and know how to ["aim"] before ["releasing the trigger"].


Wish your friend's family well in their next business endeavor.

To evade the [above] negative situation, suggest the reading of the Mark McNeilly's book to the readers.

His book possesses a lot of good examples.

His six macro principles that can encompasses the 350+ principles of Sz can be found here.

Its not exactly clear Shaun, what exactly you/your friend were doing. Were you manufacturing in China for the domestic market?, manufacturing for Export back to your home country? Or importing a product from your home country to try and break into the domestic Chinese Market?

I am sorry to say there are really very few hard and fast rules, its far more like playing a hand of cards ar a Marjong. You just have to look at what you have, see what the others are doing and think about how you intend to make your play.

SpV is technically correct.

Every region has its rules (obvious/unobvious). Got to know it.

Read Chapter 13 of Sz AoW. , esp. the part on the importance of employing local guides (aka spies).

Failure to prepare is to prepare for failure.

My favorite game analogy for strategic situations is Weiqi, not mahjong or poker.
Develop connections w/ each move directly and indirectly with the least amt of resources while controlling max. amt of territory.