^^ Is this not your saying ----> "Nationalism is the key to Victory."?

As I understand it, the Hmong is a Miao tribe. The Miao is called Hmong in South East Asia. The Miao in Zhongguo has their own website, in Chinese.

The Hmong left Zhongguo many years ago. So what do they want now? reclaim their ancestral lands?

Thats from a game Reality and Command and Conquer General are two different thing XD

I think that a thread should automatically terminate after 10 pages.

I did look up the Hmong/Maio. It seems that Miao is a composite group - various ethnic groups lumped into one label - Miao. Perhaps Hmong has a good complaint and they should be separated from the Miao umbrella label.

But then what? Hmong is only a small group in China. You can have fancy stories about descending from Dragons, and had glorious ancient kingdoms. We can all dream. But even the once mighty Manchu and Mongol are being sinicized - you want to set up a Hmong country in China? The Hmong website out of Minnesota is interesting; but after 2 or 3 generations, the immigrants all become Americans.

I don't know why this statement was directed at me

In other case any Hmong who still desire a country, due to nationalistic purpose are seen to me as obsolete relic.
Incoherent, outdated, and neolithic. This is only a dream, that should never come to pass... even if such thing should exist I can only picture it
as a tyrant government similar to that of Kim Jung Ill Reign. I am against such idea and mythical story...

They don't literally become American, they become Asian American

FYI I am a Hmong-American - born and raised in California. I am assuming that you think me a FOB but contrary to what you may have come to believe about me, I did not learn to read and write Hmong until I was well into my 20's.

What da frick? I didn't even come to the conclusion that you were a South Eastern Born Hmong... I just said I'm to Americanize to even consider learning a romanize language that has only been place into use for so long as perhaps 30 to 50 years.

That is a good question.
I have a read a book recently called "Guns, Germs, and Steel" written by Jared Diamond.
In that book, it attempts to explain the different ways that culture has evolved for similar peoples living in different environments. I believe the reason why the Hmong/Miao may still be "backwards"(if that's the term we're using) in their towns is because of the environment that they live in. I don't think that they grew up in areas like Europe or the Americas, where they critically think about the things they do everyday, or are taught at a young age to dominate in society through schooling and jobs. But rather, perhaps they learned as young children trying to survive in their environments and through the examples of their elders, to hunt and fish and build homes and farms and fields to live in. Because of this and other environmental influences, they have not had the time to think about creating a 'modern day' society with cars, electricity, and whatnot.
However, alot of the Hmong/Miao have been integrating with other cultures lately, and most likely throughout the generations. That is perhaps why they also have been changing as well in their social environments. So yeahh, I hope that can help to answer your question.

On a second note, how was it that other cultures WERE able to develop a more advanced society?
I think that it's probably due to population size and density, and the resources that their enviornment allowed them to use. Some societies became hunter gatherers, while others advanced in farming or irrigation. It is because of these differences in environment that societies and populations are different, which is why technological advancement in society is also different.
This can also attempt to explain certain things like how the Hmong/Miao society became shaped, and why it is that they are short with black hair and brown eyes as their dominant trait.
Just an idea...

And by the way........


Yes, Hmong does have a meaning.. it means "Free Man".
I remember this because I read it on a Hmong website, but I do not remember it since it was back in 2000.
It is a self-given name by the Hmong people, presumably so that they can stay away from the name the Chinese gave them, which is the name "Miao". It was said that the Chinese gave them that name during a time of persecution, or enslavement, or war, or something like that.
To some Hmong/Miao people the name 'Miao' can be just as offensive as the 'N' word for African-Americans or black people, for example, or the "Cr" word for Caucasians.
Though I have heard from other sources that it was given the new meaning: "young plant". Nontheless, it can still be offensive for some.
As for the Hmong/Miao people being mongolian, I have no idea about that, but perhaps it could be possible, though I currently have no concrete idea how.

And also.......


On the contrary, finding out if your ancestral line were or were not once "white"(as you say) is quite important in wanting to find the roots to your own history.
Perhaps one may not care about what country they originally came from, since it is, after all, the past. But that perhaps may not apply to everyone else out there who do want to know where they came from, what happened to that huge gap in their history, and why it is that a society lives as it does now.
Although I do find it hard to believe that the Hmong/Miao were once of European decent as well, do we have any proof to defy that? Is it not, after all, a theory among the many tales that you hear among the Hmong/Miao? Those talltales, as they seem most likely to be, are the only links that the common Hmong/Miao have to their history, and they are, after all, the only "oral traditions" that are passed down to generations.
But I guess if someone really wants to start looking for the truth behind Hmong/Chinese History, they could start in the mountains of China.

That almost like saying, we all came from Africa, and should be dubbed as Africans, So they say all Human beginning came from Africa... lol...

I think that the investigation on this needs to be more indept. How did this even came up that Hmong means free? There isn't any deep details on orgin of this meaning. Who said that the meaning is free man? I've never heard it from any of the elders and only in internet. So many Hmong/Miao people in china calls themselves so differently and sometimes doesn't even sound like Hmong anymore. Is "Hmong" a word in our language? And does it mean Free man? How do people even come up with names? Does it have to have a meaning? What does American mean, Chinese? French? Mongol? Does every name have a meaning in their language?

edit

The concensus among Western linguists is that the Miao-Yao languages constitutes a language phylum of it's own, however Chinese linguists continue to insist that Miao-Yao languages are a branch of the Sino-Tibetan phylum. Then there are few linguists who believe that the Miao-Yao languages actually belong to a super "Austric" language phylum.

What evidence? For the longest I've thought it stemmed from Mongolian. Hmong-Mongolian, this is my opinion.

Ya know thats kinda like saying Japanese and Chinese are the same thing, because their language look and sound alike... *red neck accent* DEM CHING CHONG! *sarcasm ok people*
so I find your opinion un-moving

What's your evidence that Hmong and Mongolian are the same?

I did hear my father said that there were Miao lived deep in the mountains of Zhejiang province -- at least in the early part of 20th century. Also, I heard from an American Hmong/Miao, he said his family members lived all throughout Southern China (including Zhejiang mountains), Vietname, and Lao areas, and they traveled back and forth a lot throughout those countries until the modern national borders came up. Personally, I believe they are in part of our blood lines, especially in Southern China areas.

Just join... very interesting info. I'm planning to travel to China in the summer to visit the villages, anything or anywhere I should go while I'm there?

Last time when I went back to Zhejiang area, I saw that there were some special minority areas in Zhejiang in the mountains. You might be able to check those places out. However, I don't remember what are the names of the villages. You should be able to find them on the official Zhejiang maps from mainland China for sure. I think it was set up like a reservation type of the thing.

In addition, you would find lots of those villages in Yunnan, Guizhou, and Sichuan provinces as well. I think there were also some in either Hubei or Hunan in the deep mountains.

Just remember, don't let the local girls fall in love with you. If you do, don't promise them anything that you could not fulfill!!! Otherwise, it could be very deadly to you ...

The Miao people history is probably the most saddest history of all people. The story of losing their native homeland to the Chinese and some being slaves to the Yi. Traditionally, according to ancient folktales, the Miao People traditionally wear WHITE HEMP CLOTHINGS with no designs. I guess later in history, the Miao People started to dyed their clothings and dispersed into many groups adopting other ethnic designs while still maintaining their own culture and etc...

Here are some video clips of the Miao People. The Miao people are broken into three branches.
The Eastern, The Central and The Western Miao. Both three groups share similar folktales of migration.

The Eastern share the story of migrating westward.

The Central share the story of migrating westward, settling down in Guizhou, land of the Bouyei...etc

The Western share the story of migrating westward, speak of the Bouyei, entering Yunnan, land of the Yi people...

The Miao speak of their native homeland, somewhere around the yellow and yangtsi river where growing rice was plentiful and good. Miao is a Chinese term which means Sons of Soil, for the Miao are known as the first rice planters of China.

The Eastern Miao
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMzBNXp8fMg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlVJ38z-8rs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb-ieyxO49I

The Central Miao
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hASOOLROLnc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGiesM7yTE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ62yz4X9gY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYwYYOpv_pk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrqb6c3glAI

The Western Miao - the western miao are probably the most diverse ever due to their migration from china into southeast asia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRrB8rzWuws
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlB76_8ZUfY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piCT_-R7KL4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkomIplDmqI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qjl7Ot10_w

These are just some of my simple clips. For a non-hmong, they may not understand why all Miao groups are classified as one. There are also other similarities that all three groups share and talk about but I'm kind of tired talking about it.

1. All Miao Groups wore skirt. I have been studying the Eastern Miao and though I don't always see them wear skirt, I remember seeing a clip of their beautiful blue skirt. I guess the region where the Eastern Miao live are cold which is why they often wear pant.

The Three Miao Regions may have refer to the Three Miao Kingdoms. According to what I learned, during the many wars against the expanding Chinese, the three Miao kingdoms uprise against the Chinese. all three groups came together to fight against the Chinese from the East of Hunan, Guizhou and to the west of Yunnan and Szechuan. Within these three regional dialects have over 30 to 40 sub dialects but are all intelligible with the main dialect of that region.

There is only a brief record of this in the Shiji. It says, "The Three Miao rebelled numerous times in the Jiang-Huai and Jingzhou regions" - these regions correspond to the land between the Huai River and the middle reaches of the Yangzi river, i.e. Anhui and Hubei and a part of Hunan. There is no mention of the lands corresponding to Guizhou, Yunnan, or Sichuan. The Shiji then says that the sage-king Yao punished the Three Miao people by exiling them to the far west, in a region called Sanwei that was generally believed in Tang times to correspond to Gansu (specifically Dunhuang). That is very far from Guizhou indeed.

There were legends (probably inspired by the Three Miao legend) in the Han period of a race called Miaomin 苗民 ('Miao people') in the far western regions, who had wings but could not fly. There were no such legends about the southern regions. In fact, by the 5th century AD there were claims that the Qiang people of the far western Qinghai region were descendants of the Three Miao.

If there were any connection between the Three Miao and the people of Guizhou, surely there would be some ancient record of it. But there is none.

Ancient Record? remember, the Chinese were the only one in China that recorded things and you can't possibly believe that everything happened in China is recorded???? Chinese recorded things and put it in their own point of views like stating non-Chinese are barbaric and etc... yet many Ethnic Groups considered Chinese to be barbaric and etc... You have the statue of Chiyou erected in Beijing with many primitive-likes people in the background but you have the two Chinese emperor erected with nicely clothes people in the background. You then have that one animation clips where they portray Chiyou to be a fat ugly guy with horns and nice clothes and the Chinese leader with primitive clothings.

You have failed to realized that not everything is recorded. The large statue of the green men with holding gesture and the burial tombs with lots of elephant tusks in it are still unknown to the Chinese Historian and Anthro.

I do not look at legend but only folktales. Legend is like myth that have magical powers to it. All cultures have myth and legend describing and making fun of another tribes or groups.

The Hmong people know what they are. Many Hmong are able to trace their family clans back a couple of decades. So, let me ask you, Many Cantonese are called Tang-Ren yet many of my Cantonese friends like to associate themselves with the Vietnamese. Many Cantonese also told me that Guangdong Chinese are more traditional than the Northerners. What make them right and what make them wrong?

Shiji? What is this Shiji? Some kind of historical text? You do know that many can misinterpret texts. Many ancient texts I've seen don't even look like Chinese Traditional Scripts yet how can Chinese are able to give meaning to it? Many Korean Nationalists told me, which I don't know if it's true or not but Mandarin language doesn't sound accurate or close to many of the scripts they used which is why the Chinese decided to simplified their scripts.

Your ignorance about the only ancient written source on the Three Miao legend speaks for itself. I see no point in discussing history with you, when your only source is folktales which could have been created less than a hundred years ago.

Yes, not everything is recorded. With regard to the Miao, in fact, virtually nothing before the 15th century is recorded, and that is unfortunate for historians. But it is not an excuse to use folktales to fill up the gaps in the records. Most folktales change so much from century to century that any element of historical truth they had is eventually distorted beyond recognition. Imagine how much more so that would be for a tale that supposedly began to be told 4,000 to 5,000 years ago.

BTW, the modern Chinese Miao belief that Chiyou was an ancient ruler/leader of the Miao people is just as unfounded as their belief that the Miao people have anything to do with the Three Miao historically.

Cantonese never associates themselves with VNmese! Cantonese always think of themselves as Chinese first (tongyan) and Cantonese second.

If you are talking about the Cantonese in China, VNmese is the last thing on their mind. They have nothing to do with VNmese, just like they have nothing to do with Korean. If you are talking about the Cantonese in VN then many of them Cantonese(from VN) may have good impression for VNmese due to same culture and traditions. However, I never met one Canto-VNmese associates themselves with VNmese. It's the other way around, always there is a clear distinction. VNMese themselves also have a clear distinction that the Canto-VNmese are not VNmese. And also regarding the Mien minority in VN (as Hmong is known in VN) it is also viewed differently from the VNmese point of view.

You had better back up what you say with a source. To say that they do not associate would be folly; my father gets on rather well with Vietnamese.

Unless you meant identify rather than associate; I know that there is a very strong and unique "identity" among cantonese.

You had better learn to read the words in context also. Of course it means "identify", but in response to the orginal post I used the same word "associate".

Since I've been living in Beijing for a while, I am getting used to read words in context! Not like others who read words for its straight dictionary meaning...

Bear in mind that you're in an academic history forum, and if you are here to read, understand or research chinese history, be prepared to delve into ancient chinese history records and documents or come up with some credible sources. Afterall, that's what historians rely on. You cannot based your argument on some fantasy folktale. If you want, you can put that as a reference as Miao folks culture/tale, but do not link it as "real" history. Otherwise, it will be counted as a revisionist history.

Now before you can even base on the fact that the Middle Kingdom was Miao land to begin with you must provide fact, that the Miao People did unite all the people under its flag to even consider it their land. And as some have already said to me once... Chinese did not exist till The Qin Dynasty.

folktale are also like myth for that matter, if you are Hmong American you should realize the basic underlining of our forefather folktale... their majority of the time inaccurate and base in the wrong setting. Like History itself myth and folktales are fabrication of one own doing.

As for Hmong American students who desire to learn more of our own history, you must learn to take in account of Western, and Eastern historical points and criss cross them with one another. You can't generalize our history base on folklore...

It is said that the Hmong/Miao lived in the Northern China, and the Chi You's Battle of Zhuolu took place in Hebei.

So who exactly are they?
- A nothern nomad tribe which is assimilated/sinicized?
- A different tribe being sinicized to a level like the Yue peoples?
- Are they firstly mono-syllabic speaking or the language became like this like in the example of Korean?

The Hmong/Miao history is a very skeptical one and I can't say that anything written about us can be consider
full proof fact.... or even full proof lie.

but their a slight possibility that the Hmong were Nomads from the North.... thats only a possibility.
But then again I can't say the Hmong/Miao have been Sinicized since their cultural and language aren't persay resemble or is exactly like that of
Mandrian or Cantonese.

As I've mentioned on other threads on the Hmong/Miao, the notion that they were connected with Chiyou's Nine Li tribes and the later Three Miao tribes, both of which are vaguely referenced in the first chapter of Shiji, is almost certainly an invention of Ming-period scholars and officials who were posted to Guizhou during the Ming Empire's expansion into that region. It is not mentioned in any pre-Ming texts, and there is no concrete evidence that the Miao themselves had any earlier legends about being from north China.

He said, she said . . . what else can I say about this topic? When people have an oral tradition, we cannot include that as actual fact. As we all know, people like to embellish stories. . .isn't that why we have myths and how Chi You had horns of a bull and stood 8 feet tall?

Interesting, what does Shiji mean? When did this Three Miao rebellion occur? And why did they use the term Three Miao?

I ask because it may be linked to Hmong history. According to Hmong history, we referred to our people as Three Hmong. The name Hmong derived from our word for lucky or dust, this is because we have a creation myth where people from the heavens came down and created mankind using dust. So during times when we did not use ethnicities Hmong meant people, or human beings. Therefore Three Hmong meant 'United Peoples.' The three gets its meaning from the triangle, where all points connect. I don't know how many other cultures have names that means people or human beings but that explains why Hmong is Hmong. I only mention this because it may be related to why the Shiji used the term Three Miao.

I've been reading JB Xiong's post for the past 2+ years and he's shown me that he knows less about Hmong and Hmong history than even the non-Hmongs here. He's an embarrassment to all Hmong as he's shown that he knows less about his own people's history than those who aren't even Hmong. What's worse is that you say that you don't even care about Hmong orgins. I laugh at you when you say that your parents and relatives "originated" from Laos. Hopefully you're 12 so you can save yourself some face. I guess you will tell your kids one day that you "originated" from the US right? And then your kids will ask about their grandparents and you'll say "they originated from Laos" and when they ask about your great grandparents, you'll probably say "they originated from China". Then your kids will say "it's not possible for you to originate from the US, while your parents originated from Laos, and your great grandparents originated from China. In order to even answer these questions correctly, you need to understand the word origin and what it means. When you talks about anthropology, or history of ethnic groups, the term origin means where they were originally from, not where they are born. You and I did not originate from the US and I hope you can understand that.

And General Vang Pao isn't the one who originated the term Hmong. Hmong people have been called Hmong before General Vang Pao even got into the Royal Lao Army. Best evidence is even the Lao have used the term Hmong in 1920-1921 when talking about Pa Chay Vue. They intermixed the term Meo and "Mong" when they talked about the Hmong. BTW, all this General Vang Pao crap is just that...crap. He killed his own people for himself. Ask yourself what happened to Yang Shong Lue.


This can be said about any race, let alone an ethnic group like the Hmong. When talking about history, there are many different views and stories and no one knows what is the truth because history is written by man and we all know that men tell stories in a plethora of ways...usually so they look good. Just like if you were to write a book about the Hmong, you'd say it's a fact that you're parents "originated" from Laos and some stupid, ignorant people might actually believe that because it's written from an ignorant Hmong person. Much like how you said there have never been any Hmong with blond hair, which I have proven to be false.

BTW, there are Hmong people with blonde hair who are 100% Hmong who aren't albino. Here's a picture for you

http://www.geocities.com/hmongboiz/MySpaceJohan02.jpg

I would like to thank all of those, Hmong and non-Hmong, who have tried unsuccessfully to inform this ill-informed Hmong on his own history.

past 2 years now eh?... my isn't that quite creepy to say to least, so that you can speak now is rather ill relevant.


Oh really now, I hope you can back that up with a link and quote of me saying such directly.



My folks was born in Laos, so thats where they originated from, are you saying my folks magically appeared in china as well?
lol.

and sure I'll tell my kids I was united states born, I.E. U.S. originated, but nevver will I say that was where our ancestor were from... lol please stop this nonsense of personal attack... its silly.



Note to self mind you... that I did not say my ethnic, I'm basically talking about myself, or my folks originality. and since when was Origin was a definition for the history of a ethnic group... where as I stated "My folks" originated in laos, meaning my father and mother timeline started in laos...

In the terms of the definition origin.

1: ancestry, parentage
2 a: rise, beginning, or derivation from a source b: [b]the point at which something begins or rises or from which it derives <the origin of the custom>; also : something that creates, causes, or gives rise to another <a spring is the origin of the brook>3: the more fixed, central, or larger attachment of a muscle4: the intersection of coordinate axes[/b]
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/origin


again as I stated, I was talking about my folks origin, where their life began, where they were born. where their history began, no where did I write or say that my ethnic originated in laos... No where in that definition or that statement where their is a notation to say that origin is base solely on ethnic history. it can be anything.



Mind providing your source? link, book, document?



Don't get me wrong, I don't affiliate with Vang Pao ideals.



much to my own disgrunt I retracked that statement awhile back, but it still stands that, how can these small individuals were once the majority or the core of our ethnic. unless of course you can disprove me wrong on that. No it wasn't you who have proven me wrong say the least...

and the picture you provide has yet to prove they have blue eyes... again as I ranted with Huang... You can prove the blonde hair part.. but not the blue eyes... even if you did... how were they majority or the core of our ethnic? Are you going to tell me they were all exterminated by the Chinese?

if that the case... then explain why the Gypsy aka Roma are still whole as an ethnic?



My my don't you flatter me

BTW, it's not "ill relevant" but rather irrevelant.

I found this thread while looking up some stuff on Hmong origins and I then I went through the thread and found you to be the most ill-informed Hmong poster here and thus I created an account. Maybe your thoughts have changed over the past two years since your original posts and if so, that'll do you good.

BTW, for the source of the term Hmong being used in Laos in the 1920s, maybe it's because I have had some schooling there. The term Hmong (Mong) or Miao (Meo) have been used interchangeably in Laos for over 100 years now.

don't be such a grammar nazi, lol... no one cares on the net... so long as one is able to depict what it means
I'm sure you can read something l1k3 diz

Note to the key word "Whole Root" as I know parts of my original wording were cut off for you to use the verify statement.
Mind you that it shows that I'm less insecure about finding any scrab to call my history. Secondly I never said anything about beign 100% accurate, nor do I know that I am 100% non accurate... and thirdly There is no statement that insist that I did not care, it basically state that "I as a person wouldn't need to know every detail of my originality to be secure with myself." needless to say... calling someone ill-informed because you feel he or she know less is rather ironic... For the question to ask someone who thinks of that mentality is... "How do you know you are right? To even say they are less inform?"


the Hmong History is rather skeptical to say the least... so anyone of us can be correct... but then again who knows *shrugs*

Can you provide the documents to those factuality you provided... It would nice to read the actual source thank you.

Being Albino means your skin is pigmented and you're very sensitive to light. Those Blonde haired Hmong and sometimes blue eyed are not sensitive to light... although there ARE some Albino Hmongs.

I don't care whether it proves that Hmong were Caucasian or not. I could care less. But the fact is, there are Hmongs with Blonde hair and blue eyes who AREN'T Albino.

What does that signify? It could mean absolutely nothing. I wouldn't care. I just want to find out its relevance.

I don't care who took control of China first, whether it was the Chinese or the Miao. I just want to know the TRUTH.

I hate how certain people in this thread talk as if everything Hmong people say are nationalistic or wannabe cr@p.

What's so wrong with wanting to find out the truth? Isn't that what this thread's about? Finding the origin of the Miao? But whenever anyone gives information, everyone treats it like the Miao/Hmong just want to take all the cake by being in China first, or having Blonde hair and blue eyes.

Are you guys so insecure that you have to DENY information just because it takes away some of your glory?

By the way, in a recent documentary, Scientists were able to trace a Blonde hair blue eyed Mongolian girl's DNA all the way back to the Amazon Lady Warriors. That might be of significance to Blonde hair blue eyed Hmongs.



What I'm trying to figure out is, why should it even matter whether there are Hmong with blonde hair blue eyes or not?

Truth is, I've seen it and its different from Hmongs who are Albino. Fact is, I just want to find out where it originates from.

Imagine if we haven't figured out the facts behind Albinism. Wouldn't you guys want to find out? Instead you guys are just yelling "LIAR!! THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS BLONDE HAIRED BLUE EYED AFRICANS/ASIANS!"

The immaturity is unbelievable.




Did you guys NOT read the post about the Missionary meeting the Miao back in the early 17th century? They were MOSTLY blond haired and a lot of them had blue eyes too.

But for some reason nowadays, they are mostly black haired and have dark brown eyes.

I'm pretty sure a Missionary would not lie about the Miao just to make them look better when he himself isn't Miao.

Instead of trying to figure out why the genes have become recessive, or where the genes came from, you guys would rather point fingers and shout "WANNABE!"



Certainly he was trying to find answers as to WHY the majority of them had Blonde hair and blue eyes.

That's WHY he was hypothesizing whether they were once Euro or not.

But according to you, out of all the different ethnics he met, he just randomly chose the Miao to "imagine" all this "what if they had blonde hair blue eyes".



Yes, and the Mongolians are NOT descendants of the lady Amazon Warriors. /sarcasm

Funny how a documentary has already proven how some Asians came from Caucasian backgrounds, yet its so hard to believe that Hmong/Miao might have had the same kind of history.


By the way, that NON-existence(not unexistence) you speak of is true today. Because only a minority of Hmong/Miao have those traits today. But that doesn't mean the majority never had it however long ago. Sources also prove it too, yet somehow those sources are considered "unreliable" just because of the fact that it supports this idea that Miao/Hmong once had Blonde hair and blue eyes.

Why does Blonde hair and blue eyes automatically mean you're somehow Caucasian anyways? It just means your genes gave you blonde hair and blue eyes.



So the majority of Miao back then were Albinos?

I mean even today most Hmong/Miao with blonde hair and maybe blue eyes aren't even Albino.

It would make a LOT more sense if the blonde hair and blue eyes became recessive genes instead of remaining dominant. Or maybe it required too much similarity within the genes to uphold those traits.



Exactly, you are Albino.

Those Blonde haired blue eyed Hmongs/Miao aren't. Well most of them aren't otherwise you can tell by their skin.

And once again, just because the majority of Hmong/Miao might have had Blonde hair and blue eyes without being Albino back then, it doesn't necessarily mean we're of Caucasian descent. Hell, not even all Caucasians have Blonde hair and blue eyes.

There's no need for all this Nationalism name calling. Most people automatically assume Blonde hair/blue eyes = Caucasian descent, but that's not how it works. Even the "anti-nationalist" groups here automatically assume the same as well.

All nationalism/anti-nationalism bias aside, I truly think the majority of Hmong/Miao once had Blonde hair/blue eyes.

Handed down stories tell it, and Missionaries documented it. Hell, I'm just curious as to why no one has tested the DNA's yet!



Genetically, we are all mutts to some extent. That's why there are such things as "recessive genes".

And some people just can't bring themselves to believe that at some point, some Asian ethnics might have had Blonde hair/blue eyes which have now become recessive... just because for SOME UNKNOWN REASON that automatically makes them of Caucasian descent.



I don't know why you guys speak of such Nationalistic Hmongs in the first place.

The only one I might have seen is that Ice kid who said Hmongs were Euroasian... but he/she posted a lot of good information on the Hmong/Miao though.



Is is so wrong to be a descendant of Africans?

You yourself don't have to be African in order to be a descendant of Africans.



He said she said.

But one of them wrote instead.

The other one was illiterate... why's that?

It is known in history that when you conquer a people... you should also eradicate their history or rewrite it as you see fit... as much as you can of course.

Does it matter what is written if the winners write down the history? Certainly that history would not be un-biased. /sarcasm

First I would like to say... "OMG the Multi Posting." lol


So I can stop hearing some idiot like that angel princess or whatever her name is say that "Hmong are mutts" and believe me I met quite a handful of people like her/him in life
its annoying...



Immature yes... would I want to find out?... No



Sooo your putting your faith in some Missionary who from the "17th Century" over the simple fact that even before that time Miao/Hmong were black hair and brown eyes in majority.
Ha... thats like believing Kublai Khan was a European just by looking at Marco Polo Drawing. Like I said before, a Missionary may have stumble onto a dirty orange hair Hmong individual and presume that the Hmong may perhaps have a lineage of being white... but of course the Hmong/Miao before your 17th century were black hair and brown eyes.



What majority are you talking of?... lol.... See here the thing... You are living off the "What if" scenario.



and let me ask you.... is it wrong to assume that your ideal is wrong, and faulty?
This argument can go on forever and neither of us will get a answer unless we build a time machine.



Keyword... "Some" Not all.



Are you saying they don't exist?

So what do you define as good information on Hmong/Miao? Because you agree with it?.... Just because you agree with it doesn't make it credible.
You remind me of a character from "The BoonDocks" Uncle Ruckus. Whom a African American Feverently believe he White. lol




And you do realize it wasn't call Africa when all the Land was one big pieces of Earth right?



Stories? So if someone told you they drove a Nice car and living the life of a rich person you would believe them? Even when facts, body language prove that the story is faulty.
So just because a person of christian faith documented something... then its consider as fact?
In regards to faith, its like saying whether or not Christ was or was not a real person... Really... There a war going on within that brain of yours, if you think you're making a point.

But your logic is faulty for believing in a simple sources like the one set document marketed by a French Missionary. Did you know the Yellow Peril Article stereotyped Asians in the 18th century... Were those fact real? No of course not, it was incurred to promote anti asian feelings.

Something similar to that line can be compared to your understatement of your one source fable to being fact.

I've fixed that. Merged 11 consecutive posts into one.

rockleex, the next time you have something to add to your previous post, just use the "edit" function.