I often wonder "man, Japan seems to have a huge amount of preserved weapons and armor, why not China which is much much larger a country with a longer history?"


Many Tang dynasty blades I look up are kept in Japanese museums or shrines

I've heard before that in events like Great Leap Forward, people were encouraged to destroy items of old culture.
With metals like armor and swords, they would be melted down to make tools.

Under the Tokugawa Shogunate which lasted from AD 1603 to 1868 saw more than 2.5 centuries of relative peace, peace which was enforced by military and a coalition of allies supporting the bakufu.

During this era, the significance of the samurai and soldiers declined, but their continued existence was necessary to maintain the status quo. All daimyos, regardless of whether they were closely associated with the ruling bakufu, were allowed to maintain armed retainers as well as train their successors in the way of the warrior.

Thus, many weapons continued to be made, but seldom got to be used in combat.
Arms and armours, especially those made for the lords, tend to accumulate as heirlooms in noble households, preserved for generations.

By the time Japan opened up, the face of warfare had already changed, and the Japanese learned they needed to fight with new weapons. Hence, there were plenty of weapons preserved which never got used.

If I'm not mistaken, most of the preserved arms and armour of Japan came from the Tokugawa era rather than earlier periods.

In China, constant warfare saw weapons put into circulation rather than preserved in the families.
Many Chinese noble families also did not have strong martial traditions, unlike Japan where a daimyo must be of a warrior class. Thus, there were not many families keeping weapons as heirlooms.

And of course, there's always the cultural revolution. They , as we all know, were seen as remnants of old society and many were melted down. It was illegal to own them too, I believe.

Plus, as I recall from SB's post in a topic I made once, China had been recently defeated by foreigners armed with newer technology. I'm not sure there was the same sort of pride in old weapons by the Chinese as the Japanese.

The popular eras such as Tokugawa, Meji existed in the 17th-19th centuries...which is fairly recent.

China, on the other hand, went into decline around the mid-Ming dynasty. Invasion from Manchuria and conversion to Qing dynasty didn't help either. Furthermore, foreign powers looted and destroyed landmarks (such as burning and sacking of the summer palace) around the time of the opium wars.

A few other things;
China will have masses of weapons, but these are not the kind of artefacts that are displayed in bulk. Ceramics and flashy vessels get more attention and swords are not so venerated as in the Japanese ethos.
Most museums will have extensive material they dont display. The swords of steel and iron, unless not that old, will more typically be in relic and unappealing corroded condition and not going to be shown in huge numbers. Some examples of ancient iron weapons can be seen in displays but the history of China is so long & complex that unfortunately weapons aren't shown in the numbers I might like.

Outside museums there is a conceptheld by some of a sword in the household as not a good object too. This is true in traditional Chinese belief. Displaying a katana on a stand in the home is very bad geomancy to Chinese thought. They project 'Sha Chi' or killing energy. In Feng Shui shapes matter, but a sword is one item that will create disharmony and friction in a house.
Apart from that aspect many ancient swords will be dug from tombs and may have risks to the owner.
I have new & old swords in almost every room, and my older Chinese family members have told me this is not good (so I hide them away a little to keep them happy). My ancient weapons are likely dug from tombs, with all the spiritual risks that has, I have been asked not to bring bronze items into the family home next time I visit Taiwan. It is a precaution in their opinion and I will respect it although of course this would only create risk-anxiety in people who hold superstitions.

It seems the cultural revolution did lead to destruction of artefacts as I know in some cases to hide them from destruction was considered a crime against Mao-Tsetung thought. Traditional Chinese composite bows were destroyed. Swords and other relics would be seen as 'old' and treated the same way.
Amongst those Chinese that didnt suffer the CR there is a traditional belief the sword brings bad energy when displayed or even bought to a home.
In modern China will there be the conditions for new perceptions to arise in individuals, and enthusiasm without politics or traditional reservations.
In earlier communist thought, as well as traditional Chinese thought which it opposed, there are some factors to make the symbol of the sword in a home quite different to how Japanese might regard their display.


Taken all together then the museums show only a fraction of what they have (ancient weapons are not that rare in truth), in general there is not the cultural symbolism as the sword (as opposed to the scholars brush) as noble in Chinese culture vis-a-vis the Japanese. Some superstitions in those that hold them mean swords, and grave goods, are not items to have around the living. Earlier PRC ethos would mean attachments to relic weapons would be a thought crime.
All these mentalities together also tend to make a Chinese sword not as visible & celebrated as a Japanese sword consisitenly has in comparison, either celebrated physically or conceptually.


As a final note weapons collecting in China is getting more popular (antiques). Internal demand for weapons in PRC is on the rise as public interest and an increase in personal wealth increases.

Edit; Intranetusa
The foreign powers certainly looted and sacked but their focus was on fine antiques looted. The swords in armouries or people possesion would not be affected and the Boxer rebellion or such should not be seen as a reason to explain the lack of prominence of Chinese weapons in recent times. It should be noted that the weapons used against foreigners and in late dynasty wars were often spears and blades. Even at the turn of the century the weapons carried by rebels and Ching troops (alongside the well equiped Ching forces with imported artillery and rifles) did include spears and traditional weapons aplenty.
If the foreign powers sacked the Ching court & Beijing, and carried away Imperial treasures and jades (which they did) it wouldn't mean that the ordinary weapons in peoples hands vanished because of this too.
The Cultural revolution in the 1960's, and the revolutionary hype of melting down all iron (tools and pots included) to produced good % figures to please Mao would ensure all the rusty swords propped up in any corner or in a cabinet that people could find would be flung into the back yard furnaces at this time.

Correct me if I am wrong please , but I was always under the impression that Chinese culture didn't place a high value on weapons they why Japanese did. The person who used the weapon, which was really just a tool, was more important worthy of note.

"Chinese culture didn't place a high value on weapons"
When you say, what part of Chinese culture? Over 3,000+ years, culture has changed.

to give an uneducated guess... Japan's culture is closely tied to Tang dynasty, that's where their katanas are descended from. It was a time where China was very strong, and still fighting wars, and winning them.
In Japan, some of their oldest swords are from the Tang, and enshrined.
Now, enshrining swords, did Japanese do that themselves, or was it a Tang custom too? Considering that Buddhism came to Japan from China and Korea, I imagine rituals of spiritual significance would be brought over.

While in mainland China Tang culture gave way to Song, Yuan, Ming, Qing culture, it sorta lived on in Japan. Not to say that Japan=Tang, I'm sure there's been many changes over 1,000+ years, but they were pretty isolated for long periods of time too.
I just recall once at the Smithsonian, some Japanese who were restoring scroll paintings were explaining the styles. What is considered Japanese style scroll painting is pretty much Tang style, the patterns for mountings are of the Tang style, while in mainland china styles changed over time, and what is considered Chinese style by most is a Ming developement.

I haven't heard of Chinese enshrining weapons, but Japanese did it, and their oldest enshrined swords are from China, at a time with heavy contact with China.

I think I'll go make a thread on Sui/Tang about status of weapons

TM, I would also suggest submitting some sources for tying Japan's culture to Tang's culture.

I know it's not what you mean, I know it's rooted in fact, and I think I get your general meaning, but sometimes it's a bit difficult not to think that you sometimes try to say "Japan =Tang preserved".

Would you humor my request and put a little something about it? It's a subject I would like to learn more in depth into too.

the scroll painting was my example. The Japanese scroll painting restorers in the Smithsonian Freer/Sackler Gallery pretty much said "Japanese scroll painting is Tang style, what most people consider Chinese style is from the Ming/(or was it Qing?). While styles changed in China, the Japanese kept the Tang style". I don't have it down in any book though, it was told to me in person. I should look into it.

In Buddhist art, due to destruction over time in wars and etc. in mainland China, Japan is the place to find Tang style Buddhist sculptures. I actually found this out just two days ago in my East Asian Art History class, it was a remark from my teacher. Will give the name of my book and such when I get home.

Thomas Chen's website has plenty of info on how Japanese swords are descended from Tang designs.

and it seems in general, it was Tang dynasty that had the heaviest impact on Japan. Japanese had visiting envoys who were pretty much told "learn as much about Tang as you can and come back to Japan to tell us"

things I do not have sources for on hand...
in a book about Chinese theatrical masks, it mentioned something like "ku'oh" theatre popular during the Tang dynasty. Showed some masks, they more or less resembled Japanese Noh masks. My bro has that book now and he's on campus.

and in general, whenever I show anyone something Tang, they usually first say "hey cool Japanese stuff"


Deep down, because I eat sushi, watch anime and read manga, I want that to be true.
Heck, I think I literally said "Japan=Tang preserved" before...

I wish people would stop speaking as if Japan retained some kind of superior incarnation of Chinese culture, while China stagnated. It's absurd. Ashikaga Yoshimitsu, for example, would light incense every time he recieved a message from the Chinese court, in reverence of Ming culture.

In regards to Chinese weapons, I'm suprised so few have been preserved intact. Certain weapons (such as the Jian) were highly respected and viewed as extremely important possessions by many people.