Recently, someone asked me "is Publius a Roman name?" And it made me think that my name is definitely not the only name on CHF that's named after a historic or mythological person or being. So, who is your namesake? Better yet, as Ashura suggested, let's make the game fun by guessing each other's namesakes.

Publius was a Roman name and of the many Publius', this one is Publius Valerius Publicola. Publius means "friend of the people" and he was a Roman consul who helped to found the Roman Republic. So, he is a founder of Republicanism. He also introduced two laws to protect the liberties of the citizens, one enacting that whosoever should attempt to make himself a king might be slain by any man at any time, while another provided an appeal to the people on behalf of any citizen condemned by a magistrate. Throughout his life, he was valiant in battle, quick to establish peace, and believed in justice. After he died, his fortune was not large enough to pay for his funeral.

Here is a portion of a speech Publius made to rally his people and prepare them for battle:



You can read more about Publius Valerius on this "Who was who in Roman times" website.

That is all great, but that was not the real reason I chose the name. The authors of the Federalists Papers, Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay, used Publius as a pseudonym because the ideals the roman Publius represented. In college, I was mostly interested in Revolutionary and Constitutional history, so Madison was naturally one of my favorites (behind John Adams) and since it was his pseudonym, I thought that it would be appropriate to use it again for that purpose. Though I think Madison made "slightly" better use of it

My namesake is Mok Kwai Yeng or more commonly known in Mandarin, Mu Guiying - the wife of Yang Zongbao (yep, our dear Yang!) and mother of Wenguang. Alot of it is folklore of course, but a girl can dream can't she?

Most well-known Indian in East Asia, aside from Sid G himself. And a southie (although I don't really consider myself that much of a southie).

Conan is my real name, but I was named after Arthur Conan Doyle. So...

Aw, nuts, and here I was fancying that you were named after Conan the Barbarian!!

Funnily enough, my parents chose to name me after Arthur Conan Doyle because they had watched "Conan the Barbarian" and liked the name.

Confusing, I know.

Ohh...I see. O.O

Lol

Yes, many girls that I know also dream of Yang But don't worry Mok, I'll let them know that he's your hubby

Conan, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock is one of my favorite fictional characters. I've been through several Sherlock Holmes reading marathons. They are great, short reads.

And DaMo, can you educate us about your namesake?

Cheers,

Publius

Let's make the game fun by guessing each other's namesakes.

Da Mo, an Indian monk who travelled to China to preach buddhaism. Usually seen as the founder of the Shaolin temple. He was said to be the person who brought tea to China, but we know that it is false. The avatar of DaMo's is a Japanese interpretation of Da Mo.

I have another champion!!

I've enjoyed them from time to time, also.

That is correct to an extent, Ashura. Actually, another Indian monk named BaTuo is considered the founder of the Shaolin temple.

Bodhidharma/PuTiDaMo/Daruma is more popularly credited with the invention of Shaolin martial arts (doubtful), and of Dhyan/Chan/Zen Buddhism (partially true). He is the first partriarch of the latter in any case. The avatar is a Daruma doll from Japan, the kind with detachable eyes.

He is said to have come from royalty in what is now the southernmost Indian state of Tamil Nadu, although no records exist of him in India.

Yes, there is a legend about his eyelids turning into tea leaves, but that is of course not taken seriously. In any case, it would not mean he invented tea. Besides, a claim for the importation of tea to East Asia is also made with Queen Hu (who is also said to be of Indian origin) of the Korean Gaya kingdom.

As for your username, am I correct in saying that it is from the Asuras/Ahuras of Indo-Iranic mythology? You know, they say it is cognate with Aesir of Norse mythology.

yes, also from the buddhist mythology of Asura as part of the eight legions of buddhism and to path of Asura as one of the six paths of reincarnation. The term Ashura is used to show the Sino-Japanese zen buddhist line of the mythology.

I do not know if the Norse and the Indo-aryan mythologies are related.

This is a little off-topic, but DaMo, is it true that Hindu/Vedic mythology has many ties/links to Celtic mythology?

Ashura also means 10th in Arabic.

MKY,

Comparisons have been made in this regard. For example, they compare "Ogham" to "Om", and the Celtic imagery of the cross-legged horned "yogi" shaman in an animal-filled forest to similar ones found in the ruins of the Indus Valley culture. This page goes into a bit of depth on that second connection, proposing that the Celtic Cernunnos and the Indus Valley "Pashupati" are related to each other, as well as to the later era Hindu super-deity known as Shiva.

But aside from common proto-Indo-European influence, it remains to be seen as to whether these connections are more than superflous and represent a particularly strong cultural link.

It was this article by Neil MacGregor Campbell that sparked my interest.

Thanks DaMo!

Mok

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4274749.stm

What is Ashura?

Some Shia men seek to emulate the suffering of Hussein by flagellating themselves with chains
The day of Ashura is marked by Muslims as a whole, but for Shia Muslims it is a major religious festival which commemorates the martyrdom at Karbala of Hussein, a grandson of the Prophet Mohammad.
It falls on the 10th of Muharram, the first month of the Islamic lunar calendar.

It is marked by Muslims as a whole with a voluntary day of fasting which commemorates the day Noah left the Ark, and the day that Moses was saved from the Egyptians by God.

For Shia Muslims, Ashura is a solemn day mourning the martyrdom of Hussein in 680 AD at Karbala in modern-day Iraq.

It is made up of mourning rituals and passion plays re-enacting the martyrdom.

Shia men and women dressed in black also parade through the streets slapping their chests and chanting.

Some Shia men seek to emulate the suffering of Hussein by flagellating themselves with chains or cutting their foreheads until blood streams from their bodies.

Some Shia leaders and groups discourage the bloodletting, saying it creates a backward and negative image of Shia Muslims. Such leaders encourage people to donate blood.

Islamic schism

The killing of Hussein was an event that led to the split in Islam into two main sects - Sunnis and Shias.

In early Islamic history the Shia were a political faction (known as the "party of Ali") that supported Ali, son-in-law of the Prophet Mohammed and the fourth caliph (temporal and spiritual ruler) of the Muslim community.

Ali was murdered in AD 661 and his chief opponent, Muawiya, became caliph. The great schism between Sunnis and Shias occurred when Imam Ali did not succeed as leader of the Islamic community at the death of the Prophet.

Caliph Muawiya was later succeeded by his son Yazid, but Ali's son Hussein refused to accept his legitimacy and fighting between the two resulted.

Hussein and his followers were massacred in battle near Karbala in AD 680.

Both Ali's and Hussein's deaths gave rise to the Shia cult of martyrdom, and to their sense of betrayal and struggle against injustice, oppression and tyranny.

Today, the Shias make up about 15% of the total worldwide Muslim population.

Zunjing de China History Forum members,

Hmm, when I initially signed up for CHF, I was in the midst of reading the biographies of the 12 Qing Emperors. It was widely known that the Qing Dynasty went into a slow decline during the later reign of Emperor Qian Long. The decline was a combination of the Emperor’s not recognizing Western superiorities and internal corruptions due to the Emperor’s mistrust in the major official He Shen. This was such a sad time in Chinese History as it was preceded by an era of prosperity.

I would eventually have a speculation that what if Emperor Qian Long did not pass the throne to his 15th son. What if another son of the Emperor succeeded to the throne? Just when I was thinking about this issue, the series “Huan Zhu Ge Ge II & III” got released on DVD. I then bought the set and started watching it. Of course, I know this story is purely fictional, but this would not stop me from having a good time as it was just for entertainment. The series showed how talented the fifth Prince was and that he had given up everything just to be with his beloved wife. The fifth Prince in this story did have the potential of being another wonderful Emperor. Of course, he could not become the next Emperor because he died in battle at the age of 25, leaving behind only one son, in real history.

Anyway, I could not help, but to imagine what if he actually succeeded Emperor Qian Long to the throne instead of the 15th Prince. Well, of course, I can never know for sure since I have history against me. However, this question had been in my mind during the same time I signed up for CHF; hence, the fifth Prince Yong Qi became my displayed namesake in this forum.

Xie Xie,

Hmm I wonder if anyone can guess who Wen Chou is?

Well incase you don't know the Three Kingdoms, Wen Chou was a general of Yuan Shao who was killed in an ambush by Cao Cao's troops. I chose the name simply because I had originally read the novel Romance of the Three Kingdoms, and I joined Koei forums. I originally wanted to choose Guan Yu, but that name was taken and I didn't want to put a number on my name. So I went for the next best thing, and that was a person who I had thought was killed by Guan Yu. And I simply used the same username on forums because I wanted people to recognize who I was. Now I'm wishing that I didn't choose Wen Chou as my name though. But nevertheless, at least I don't think people will pick it, and it'll remain unique.

see my footer for the answer. here's another hint:

Mawguy,

is it Gandalf, Bilbo, or Frodo? Your signature chop deals with magic (my Chinese is sub-par), so I'm inclined to think Gandalf? But the ring is magical and was owned by Bilbo and Frodo, and Frodo cast the ring into the "Maw" of Mount Doom? Difficult riddle... Actually, before the clues, I thought that your name and your avatar were related, as in maw of the tiger...

Here's one for Phoenix Bladen, Phoenixlament, and Fenghuang:

Feng-huang 鳳 凰 The Phoenix is the second of the four miraculous creatures (1. Dragon, 2. Phoenix, 3. Unicorn, 4. Tortoise) and the ruler of those that are feathered. Where the Dragon symbolizes the Emperor, the phoenix symbolizes the Empress. Later it became used a feminine symbol. According to Eberhard’s book A Dictionary of Chinese Symbols, “Chinese scholars consider it likely that the feng-huang was originally a god of the winds, as the written character is derived from the character for wind [feng 風]. Some think that the feng in the creature’s name refers to the male, the huang to the female phoenix: that together the two words symbolize sexual union” (235). The phoenix is also associated with the south (sun, warmth, and prosperous harvest) and its body is said to symbolize for the five human qualities: virtue, duty, uprightness, humanity, and reliability, and its feathers represent the five colors.

In the book Outlines of Chinese Symbolism & Art Motives, C.A.S. Williams notes that “this bird is a product of the sun or of fire, hence it is often pictured gazing on a ball of fire. The sun being the yang or active principle, the phoenix has great influence in the begetting of children. . . . It is six feet in height. . . . It first recorded appearance is in the reign of Huang Ti, some 2,600 years B.C. It again showed itself in the next reign, and two phoenixes nested in Yao’s palace about 2350 B.C. It is not however until the Han dynasty that we hear of worship being paid to it. Later its appearance becomes a commonplace in Chinese history, and is sure to glorify a peaceful reign or flatter a successful ruler. Its last advent was at Feng-huang-fu in Anhui, where it scratched into Hung Wu’s hands. This town now sends out enormous numbers of pictures of the phoenix to all parts of the country” (325, from the “Encyclopaedia Sinica” by Couling)

It is described as “resembling a wild swan before, and a unicorn behind, it has the throat of a swallow, the bill of a fowl, the neck of a snake, the tail of a fish, the forehead of a crane, the crown of a mandarin drake, the stripes of a dragon, and the vaulted back of a tortoise. The feathers have five colors which are named after the five cardinal virtues, and it is five cubits in height; the tail is graduated like Pandean pipes, and its song resembles the music of that instrument, having five modulations. It appears only when reason prevails in the country, hiding itself at other times; and tow are never seen at once; when it flies, a train of small birds always attends it. Like the unicorn, it is benevolent, and it will not peck or injure living insects, nor tread upon living herbs; it alights upon the wu t’ung trees . . . [and] feeds only on the seeds of the bamboo, and quenches its thirst only at the sweet fountains. . . . That this bird resides in the Vermillion Hills, where it eats and drinks at its pleasure, waiting for the time when peace shall pervade the country. There are four sorts which differ only in the colour of their plumage” (Williams 323 – 324, from the Notices of Natural History, in the “Chinese Repository,” Vol. VII, 1839, p 250-251).

The Phoenix is an especially enduring symbol because it is associated with Confucians, Daoists, and Buddhists. To Confucians, the phoenix represents peace and just government. A phoenix is said to have appeared about the time that Confucius was born and, as mentioned, during righteous reigns. To Daoists, the phoenix represents immortality, e.g. the cinnabar phoenix, who was born in a cinnabar cave at the South Pole and is associated with elixirs (if my memory serves right). To the Buddhists, the phoenix is respectful of all life and is, therefore, respected.

All in all, the Phoenix is a good, benevolent, and powerful.

[quote name='Publius' date='Jan 26 2007, 04:31 PM' post='4873569']
Recently, someone asked me "is Publius a Roman name?" And it made me think that my name is definitely not the only name on CHF that's named after a historic or mythological person or being. So, who is your namesake? Better yet, as Ashura suggested, let's make the game fun by guessing each other's namesakes.

Ok let me see...Dr. Leung Jan...hmmm

Although, a real figure in the the development of the art of Wing Chun [and one of my all time heroes],...which he allegedly preferred to call 'The Fists of Faat Saan'...some of his exploits were rpobably more legendary than not. He was said to have been involved in 300 known challenges and lost none (this is where I have trouble believing...but it sure does add to his heoric stature). He was born to a middle class family of pharmacists whose ancestral village was Gu Lou. Eventually he also became a pharmacist or herbal doctor (whichever is more appropriate) by profession. He is said to have learned Wing Chun from the opera members Wong Wa Bou and Leung Yi Dai. He had a pharmacy called by various names of which Jan Sang Tong, Wing Sang Tong, Hong Sang Tong according to differing accounts. He lived most of his life in the city of Faat Saan but retired to his native village of Gu Lou after retiring from martial arts instruction. Probably born around 1820, it is believed that he might have passed away between the years of 1895-1901.

Wang Enlai's new username, Bayou, has me perplexed. I can only guess that it relates to a river's delta, eg Louisiana Bayou or Yangtze Bayou.

Dictionary.com has two definitions for Bayou:


Wang Enlai, I mean, Bayou, what does your name mean, since neither of the above definitions are very flattering or historical

Cheers,

Publius

sorry for the late reply, publius!



"mawguy" is the cantonese transliteration of the words in my chop and is the chinese translation of The One Ring, hence the picture from the movie.

and yes, the mawing would relate to my avatar, although i'm told this tiger only really likes tuna fish sandwiches.

Hobbes and I have similar tastes, at least when it comes to tuna fish mmmmm...

Thank you Publius, for your post on the meanings of the phoenix. It was a very interesting read

Yes, I based my display name, "phoenixlament" mostly on my personality. If you know my family/friends, they'll tell you that I smile all the time. Literally all the time. I'm almost always positive and happy and I naturally love to help others out. I seriously can't help it. (I think I was born with an unusual amount of serotonin in brain or something )

Also, if you happen to read Harry Potter, "phoenixlament" should sound familiar to you.

haha! do you usually have your tuna with mayonnaise and celery/cucumber? if so, try this alternative:

- freshly squeezed lemon juice -- just enough to coat the tuna; mix
- add good quality olive oil -- if you can get portuguese olive oil, so much the better
- add some basil (whether dried or fresh chopped-up); mix
- add to bread

it's soooo yummy.

Ohoh, let me guess galvatron's namesake: he was the leader of the Decepticons, in some records, he was the Magatron reborn, other records he came from an alternate universe. Dandan!...

thirdgumi... special police from japan maybe?? from shinsengumi, I was thinking your name when i watched Samurai X, hehe. Dunno what the third one means?

Yes. All mythologies of Indoeuropean peoples have same root and show many similarities. This includes Germanic, Romanic, Slavonic peoples, Balts, Greeks, Hetites, Hindus, Tokharians and others. For example almost all of them have a thundervielder as a supreme god.

My own nick also comes from mythology. Yarovit was a Slavic god of war, youth and, enterprise and daring.

My avatar on the contrary, is a coat-of-arms (symbol) of a principality that my hometown belonged to in middle ages.

umm, mine from Greek mythology... but then, there were only males... guess the female were invented at a later date.

Hey. This topic seemed like a good way to meet and greet, seeing as I'm new here, so...

Im sure your all aware that the Shining Path was a Peruvian psuedo-communist guerrilla force, renowned for brutally massacering whole villages, etc. Not activities I espuose, fyi.

Yeah, you got that right, even the Samurai X part. You see, my favourit character in Samurai X (or Rurouni Kenshin) is Saitou Hajime, he was the captain of third squard of Shinsengumi, so "third - gumi".

I thought of this because of dinner last night.

Zuo Zongtang is named after—surprise, surprise—General Zuo Zongtang who was, among other things, a famous general integral in suppressing three rebellions: The Taiping Rebellion, the Nian Rebellion, and Yaqub Beg's Uyghur Rebellion.

Here’s more on the Zuo Zongtang thread.

If haven’t guessed it already, having General Tso’s Chicken made me think of our valiant ZZT.

In this case, it’s possible for ZZT to be what he eats!

BTW, I also love Rurouni Kenshin!

Sparhawk, did you get your name from David Edding's protagonist?

Yes, I did.

As I mentioned in my PM, Eddings (and Tolkein) really got me interested in Medieval history and Mythology. Nice name, though I always liked Ulath and Talen the most!

I have been writing a book for several years now and, at one time, part of the plot involved a religious master exorcising evil spirits from the land. Hence, the odd name.

barely seen on mine..
a real name actually..
hahahahahaha..

my avatar also represent my facial figure..
that's all..
LoL..

"Food? No food. Food? Two legs come, bring more."

My name comes from the figure of Lu Su in whats known in the west as - 'Romance of the Three Kingdoms' the novel. While I must shamefully admit I'm quite unaware of much of his true historical life, the one in the book was very interesting. He was a peaceful man by nature and watched endless exploits that defined a time in history as a diplomat and advisor. I would see him as a pacifist at heart and wonderfully inclined to bring people together than rather apart.

I think you'll be happy to hear that the Lu Su of history was much braver and smarter than the one in the novel. The novelist turned Lu Su into a naively honest man of average ability in order to accentuate the intelligence and craftiness of Zhuge Liang, Zhou Yu, and even Guan Yu. There are some who like the novel's Lu Su for being so simple-minded and nice, but most people simply take him as a comic stereotype.

Indeed, that is most welcome news. I thank you, Yun. =)