One of the distinctive customs of the Manchus (Jurchens) who conquered the Ming Empire was their shaven foreheads and hair braided into a tail.

The braiding of the hair could be understood to facilitate their lifestyle as horsemen.

However, I do not see any advantage in shaving their foreheads. In their native climate, would it not make them more suspectible to cold?

I've have read that martial cultures shaved their head because it makes it much more comfortable to wear an helmet, because it's easier to keep your head warm than keeping it cool.

The Manchus had their frontal scalp shaved so when they were hunting their hair wouldn't get in the way of sight. I suppose they could have just tied everything together... or maybe one of the hala's chief thought it was better just to shave the front off entirely. I read this not too long ago and I will try to locate the source for my statement if I remember where I read it from... >.<

* Btw... it's quite interesting about the Dongyi 東夷 & Beidi 北狄 (nomadic tribes within the vicinity of east Asian steppe) all seemed to have some parts of their hair shaved off. I think the Khitans had the most bizarre hair style followed by the Manchus, and then the Mongols. I am not so sure about Xianbei or Tangut... or even the Jurchens before we were renamed.

p.s. I remember watching old samurai shows and they all did too had funny way of shaving their heads into some kind of shape or form... anyone got any info on this please enlighten me!

Why is it than that Chinese wore this hairstyle if it was a Manchu custom? (ex: you see the hairstyle worn by all the Chinese in Shanghai Jet Lee's "Fearless" movie). Was it forced on them by the Manchu government?

Yes, it was enforced by the Manchus when my ancestors entered the agriculture side of the great wall to promote unity and a sense of nationalism, the policy was made and whoever did not obey would lose thier head... there was a saying something like "Either lost the hair or lose the head!" This act was considered quite cruel since Han Chinese were always taught by the Confucius' school of thought not to harm one's own hair & skin (I am not sure what its called but I know 50%+ of the people here know what I am talking about), and many people did have their heads chopped off for this reason. Nevertheless... to unite a place like China that has so many different ethnic groups, it was neccessary to promote an unification within people's mind in order for the nation to fucntion as a whole. I think it was also about making a valid statement to prove who was the authority then. I seriously think HungTaiji (first emperor of the Manchus) should have never entered the Great Wall, and none of this would have happened, but of course then I wouldn't be here since I am half of a Manchu & Han. Ok I am drifting off topic... going back to those Jet Li films. A lot of movies were scripted and took place during the Qing dynasty; that is why everyone in it had those pigtails!

I am sure if you watch the Song/Ming dynasties dramas you will not see anything Manchurian...
Edited: Remember "Hero" with Jet Li? That was taken place in the Qin Dynasty and therefore... he had the Qin (秦) haitstyle and custom!
- Quinn

A little off topic here but isn't this sort of a support for those claiming that Tibet was not a part of China during the Qing dynasty since Tibetans never wore this hairstyle that was forced on all of the Qing subjects?

Oh and by the way how strictly enforced was this haircutting law? If i'm not mistaken there were still some Chinese shown in the movie Fearless who did not wear the hairstyle. Whether this movie depiction is historically accurate or not I have no idea but I think I remember there was a Westernized Chinese man who was a friend of Jet Li's character in Fearless who did not wear the Manchu hairstyle.

The Tibetans were considered to be a little different by the Qing emperors. I believe the word "Manchu" came from the word Manjusry (文殊師利菩薩) which is one of the Gods in Buddhism. "A disciple of the historical Buddha Shakyamuni, he represents wisdom, intelligence and realisation, and is one of the most popular Bodhisattvas following Avalokitesvara" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manjusri) The emperors of Qing era were religiously influenced by the Tibetan monks and sought knowledges from them. These monks were Qing emperors' teachers, and sometimes even involved in political decisions, therefore, the Tibetans in Manchu's eyes held a different social status, and maybe that was why the Tibetans did not have to make any changes. I have recently finished a book called "The Manchus (The Peoples of Asia)" by Pamela Kyle Crossley, and in a few chapters where she discussed about Kangxi and Qianlong as well as many other Qing emperors who studied Buddhism heavily and even built places within the Forbidden City for the Tibetans monks, I remember in the book Crossley also mentioned a couple of times about the Dalai Lama assisting some of the Kangxi's political movements.

(joke only)

perhaps the manchus thought that all tibetans were lamas, whose hair are bald or very short anyway?

in any case, for most of the minority tribes, this regulation was never strictly enforced, but not so for Han.. there was this famous saying " if your head remain, your hair will not, if your hair remain, your head will not" .. there were very few exceptions, but toward the end of the qing, the enforcement of this rule was getting weaker as qing was now seen as a degenerate power...

you can look at this thread for info : http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=8785

personally, with or without this argument, i never feel china s claim on tibet was strong

Here are several CHF threads about the Manchu queue (pigtail) that may be of interest:

Enforcement of Manchu clothing and hairstyle

Pigtails, When was the hairstyle imposed

Qing Dynasty Pigtail

and the Queue on wiki

Concerning Jet Li's (Huo Yuanjia) friend who liked western things, I thought that he had a queue? If not, the movie takes place in 1907, a year before Ci Xi and the Guangxu emperor's deaths and when the Qing rule was nominal, so maybe cutting off the queue at this time wasn't a punishable offence? I know that it was common and sometimes forced after the Qing fall.

Does anyone know what the timeline was for cutting off the queue, i.e. when and where was it first started and what did the government do about it?

According to Wiki the Manchu hairstyle called the "Queue" was symbolic of a horses tail. Also its says it took "10 years of genocidal martial enforcement for all of China to be brought into compliance".

Now the next obvious question is why did some Chinese wear the Fu Manchu moustache? haha

The haircut was enforced on "manchu" , 'mongol', 'Han' peoples which actually included some other tribes as well but not tibetans or ugyhurs.

However I believe Tibet and east turkistan were conqured almost by accident and was not originally intended, orignally Qing wanted to conqure lake baikal and the buryats who were mongols, however due to russia that was not done however due to Oirat mongol threat which dominated tibet and east turkistan, qing ended up conquring those lands instead.

But I thought there was no actual military invasion of Tibet by the Qing during their time? So what do you mean by conquer, or do you mean like submission by diplomacy?

I think the implementation of the Manchu hairstyle and dressing was a way to enforce submission and consolidate Manchu authority over China especially the Han Chinese.

Imagine, it is tantamount to the imperial Japanese compelling conquered territories like Singapore to speak Japanese during the last great world war. It is to demand submission.

Ironically, when the republican wave swept through China after 1911 and the demise of the Qing Dynasty in 1912, many Chinese were aghast to losing their queues, many were forced to chop their queues by the revolutionaries. It was a case of culture and identity so much itched into the Chinese after a couple of centuries that was so hard to change, specifically the elder generation. Amazing.

they are practically the same to me.

Well no there not neccessarily the same though. I mean if we are getting really technical here, conquer would imply force was used subdue or defeat something.

Well the supreme art of war is victory without fighting but the result is the same. The Qing sent troops to tibet to fight the dzungars and then installed a dependent regime and slowly tightnened its hold on tibet, but the result is the pretty much the same.

ok... way off topic like some other ones, also this one has the tendency to attempt to be an endless debate... the point is... the Manchus shaved their heads due to either the climate or convenient reasons. I do not believe texts written then could be lies, and even if they were made up how the heck we will ever know if its untrue? Sorry I am no history major but seriously... it is just a conversation.
.
.
.
.
.
Unless proven otherwise.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
- Quinn

This wiki explaination was recently added as it was not there before (for as long as I've been reading wiki)... I've heard of of this symbolism of the horse tail, however it does not make any sense to me because according to one of my uncles (from the Han side) the queue was designed so that when the emperor is giving out orders... everyone else needed to obey because they were like horses that were considered as a servant to the emperor. More like the emperor saw himself as human only and everyone else were animals. Well... the emperor himslef had a queue as well so... I think this horsetail thingy is nothing but a propaganda for those whom wish to stir up a chaos among different ethinics (you know who!)

Now... Fu Manchu... I would also like to know more about this since my surname became Fu and I am a Manchu... yeah what a coincident! So please get me out of my misery!

"Dr. Fu Manchu is a fictional character, an evil genius of Chinese origin, first featured in a series of novels by Birmingham author Sax Rohmer (real name Arthur Sarsfield Ward) during the first half of the 20th century".

"Fu Manchu moustache takes its name from the fictional character of Fu Manchu, who was often depicted with such a style of moustache on film. A fu manchu extends downward past the mouth and on either side of the chin. Often the ends of the moustache would hang past the jaw line with pointed tips. It is not to be confused with the horseshoe style moustache worn by the likes of wrestler Hulk Hogan.

Fu Manchu moustaches are stereotypically represented as being popular among ancient Chinese wise men, kung-fu teachers and Mongol warriors, and were popular in the United States during the 1970s".

May I add Koreans who braid their hair but do not shave their heads and Japanese... precisely the opposite.

There is no general consensus as to the origin of this custom.
Some 18-19th century Korean scholars thought this had come with the Mongol influence during 13-14th century while others think it is more ancient.
Korean boys and girls used to braid their hair in a single strand. So this looks more like that of Manchu's than Mongols(two strands).
When they reached adulthood, Korean men had topknots in the unique Korean style(you have to see it to differentite it from Chinese and Japanese style) while women kept their braided hair but wrapped it around their head much like a turban.