At the Freer Gallery right now they have this great fantastic Ming dynasty scroll of Gods crossing the clouds

Many of them wear very nicely detailed armor.








the difference between heavily armored cavalry and what infantry have




This one caught my eye. The soldier with his back turned, it looks like his armor is arranged in overlapping horizontal bands. That's something I only recall seeing in Japanese armor.



looking very closely at this one, it also appears his armor is in overlapping rows





and this one, his thigh armor, it is held up by hooks!
I guess he is a dismounted cavalryman, but dang, I had never seen such a design before!


I also notice, pretty much everyone's armor has this band going around the front at chest level, is it to hold it tighter against the body? It seems rather vulnerable to slashing.

A most interesting piece. Definately worth studying closely.

Firstly, we can definately tell this is Ming era armour because the adjustable tuiqun only started to appear during Ming. And yes, it was so that cavalry armour can be adjusted to infantry when dismounted. You would notice that adjustable helmet too on that last image. However, that should not come as any surprise as this design came as afar as as the tang era.

What got me interested most is the amount of Liangdangjia that are there. It seems that rather than going into the backburner if not dying out altogether as most believes, it was alive and kicking and was the main armour for footsolders.

You are right, most Chinese armour are normally vulnerable to stashing across the front. But this wasn't a problem as the armour itself was designed to stop arrows. Not blades.

Also, notice the grip of the sword in that last image.

the grip

huh, there seems to be a loop from the sword around his wrist.

also, do you know if the heavily armored guys, what kind of armor is on their chest and forearms? It appears to be two discs, but it could just be a decorative pattern over lamellar.

Wonderful scroll!!!
Thank you for sharing this with us.

Was what Wujiang was referring to about the grip was the forefinger over the quillion? A dangerous thing to do, but that can give more control to the blade. There seems to be a sort of guard that loops up to protect the finger.

I am interested in the beasts that they are riding. There is a classic dragon, a Qilin and a Dragon Horse.
Can anyone identify the gods that are on those beasts?

I think the one on the Qilin looks like Zhong Kui to me..

Water God Scroll?

does it have any writings on it?

Isn't Zhong Kui supposed to hold a sword?
I only see what looks like a ribbed (stylized bamboo?) baton or whip by his side.

it does, but I do not have any pictures of that writing. Will try to get it when I can.

well first what is the Hanzi for watergod scroll?

水仙??
水神??

水仙?? Narcissus??? That would be interesting.

I think it was 水仙??

will have to check

No, the tea.

In all due respect, are you sure? I believe there is a connection between the two.
I was watching CCTV9 a couple of years ago(We switched satellite companies and regrettably I can no longer get CCTV9) and there was a short clip on a myth. I only caught the tall end of the show, so unfortunately I missed some of what was discussed.
What I caught was that Narcissus are called water fairies/水仙 and that the myth had something to do with fairies ridding on ripples.
This was referring to the fact that Narcissus bulbs can be forced to bloom by just being set into water in a warm place in the middle of winter and they were used in the New Years celebrations.
I have since tried to find information on 水仙 and fairies riding ripples with no luck.

The first information I found on 水仙 was in a posting that Naruwan had posted inquiring about temples that he was seeing all around Taiwan that were dedicated to the水仙
He thought that the 水仙 might refer to drowned souls.
We discussed the connection with the Greek myth of Narcissus dying by a pool while transfixed in his own image/soul.
His death is a combination of both drowning in his own image and a sort of suicide.
I am wondering if Hock might not have been correct when he suggested that Zhong Kui might not be the god riding the Qilin (even if he is not holding a sword.) Zhong Kui's myth says that he committed suicide because he did not pass his exams.

I later found out that there was a tea named 水仙 . I can see the connection between someone drowning and the steeping tea leaves.
I also have to wonder if the 水仙 tea might have originally been made with an extract of Narcissus/ Chinese Sacred Lily.
The tea is supposed to have a luxuriant aroma as do the Narcissus .
This also might have been used as a potion to bring on dreams of flying as the Narcissus are a strong numbing drug/poison, and could have been used as an aid to flying thru clouds.

Any thoughts on this?

I would really love to read the 水仙 scroll.

IMO, Lamellar is fairly loose-fitting, and has gaps to be exploited. The band would act to tighten the armour, thus closing the gaps.

My interest is the armor of the Imjin conflict.

I have information saying that southern Ming troops used a "wadded" armor. This consisted of a sleeveless coat and a roundish hat with a domed crown, surmountyed by a plume.

However, I am really confused in that most of the paintings from the era show the Ming Northern Troops wearing brigandine Armor. This makes them look almost Manchu in appearance. Colors of the armor are green, red and yellow.

Is this appropriate?

Brian

by that time, I believe Ming armor did resemble what Qing would use