I am thinking of compelling a list of generals with a perfect record meaning they have never lost a single battle before.

1. Zhou Yu

2. Sima Yi.

3. Sun tzu

4. Han Xin.

5, Yue Fei.

6. Hua Mulan

7. Huo Qubing.

Feel free to add on to the list or correct me if I am wrong

Sima Yi was in 231 defeated at Lucheng (by Zhuge Liang). If Sun Tzu is an historical is open to discusion, but Wu of his 'era' was certainly defeated on occaisions.

Famous commanders with no defeats should include Bai Qi, Zhuge Liang, and Li Jing.

The saying that Sima Yi got defeated by Zhuge Liang and Zhuge Liang never lost a single battle is protrayed in romance of 3 kingdom which is not true.

Dear fireice,

In my opinion, I think the saying that Zhuge Liang had never lost a single battle is untrue. You must have been influenced by Romance of the Three Kingdoms (ROTK). Kindly note that I might be wrong.

For your information, ROTK is 70% fiction and 30% true. If you want the true version of the Three Kingdoms, you should read San Guo Zhi (三国志).

Liu Bang

Hua Mulan was a legendary female sodier. A figure from a folk song. Not credible.

Not a single one of them...

It is samuka who said that not fireice



I dare say you are wrong..

The only generals who I've heard to have a perfect record was Yue Fei and Bai Qi. Of course, talking about victorious battles, especially Chinese ones, are shaky, as generals would often purposely lose battles and engagements to bait enemies. A precise definition of "battle" is required.

I can be wrong with many things, but certainly do not take information from Romance of the 3 Kingdoms. To my knowledge Zhuge Liang fought and won battles at these places:

225
south of Pei-shui
Tien Lake

228
ambush south Chencang

229
Jianwei

230
Shouyang

231
Near Chishan
Lucheng
Mumen

Many campaigns were failures and there were places he failed to take by siege, but I do not know of a battle in the open he lost in person.

Huo Qubing also have a perfect record.

He won every battle against the xiongnu and in many instances he was greatly outnumbered by the xiongnu.

Han Xin did pretend to be defeated but in actual fact he won in every battle that he fough against Xiang Yu.

Even if Huo Qubing really won all his battles (historical records are no guarantee for this, but let's keep this knockout argument aside), he died at age 24. His military service was so short, that I'd consider him barely noteworthy in the context of this topic.
If you compare generals, you should also put their time of service into account imo.

I agree, even though Huo was my favorite historical general and person.

If we can't rely on "historical documents" to determine which generals won which battle, than we can't determine much of anything during a period that is so long ago. But I would say that Huo never led entire battles on his own. Most of the time he was the vanguard of hit and run attacks, as described in the ShiJi. In fact the only battle I can recall that Huo actually completely led was the battle of Mobei, in which Huo controled half the army(It was actually more like two seperate battles instead of one) and defeated the XiongNu's in the eastern theatre.

So, I would like to clarify whether generals who purposely lose battles are counted as perfect generals or not?

Liu Bang

I believe that a feigned defeat is no defeat at all, and the ability to skillfully feign defeat is a property of a brilliant commander.

Both He Xi campaigns conducted in 121 BC was commanded by Huo Qu Bing himself, slaying some 30,000 Xiongnu and Qiang.

Not true.

Eh. I dare say when one cannot be proven to be true DOES NOT imply that it is false. Like, though I think Graviton exists, I cannot yet prove it to be true.



Name one battle in which Xiang Yu is defeated [aside from the last one]. When he is pursuing someone and then got stopped at a fortress really doesn't count. It was said, Xiang Yu fought seventy some battles and never lost. [吾起兵至今八岁矣，身七十馀战，所当者破，所击者服，未尝败北，遂霸有天下。 It is 8 years since I raise my banner, fought over seventy battle, whosoever tries to stop me were broken, whosoever I strike are defeated, I never taste defeat, thus I reign.]



Hum. So, shouldn't we divide great victories over years of service? I mean, why should time of service matter?

Shouldn't it be the impact they made, and not YOS? I mean, we aren't doing pension........

Besides which, any man who dream of glory in China would say, I want to be like Huo Qu Bing

hmm. actually xiang yu also never lost a single battle except for the last one..

According to the Wikipedia (I know...) article for Murong Ke, there is no record of him ever losing a battle. On the other hand, it says he repeatedly feigned defeat in order to draw Ran Min's forces out into the open plains, so if tactical defeats disqualify a general from having a perfect record, Murong Ke would certainly be disqualified.

Thats not how Science, or History, works. Burden of proof lies on you to prove it is true, not on the non-believer to prove its not true. Innocent until proven guilty. Otherwise, we have some outrageous claims which will have to be accepted as true based on your logic.

I concur,and now I say there's a Flying Spaghetti Monster luring out there in the outer space,now go prove me wrong.