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Fireice
During the late Qing dynasty when china was being bullied by the western powers, and yet they do not want to implement reforms that will make china strong claiming that is against Confuscius teaching

They claim that Confuscius say that they should retain their original culture and traditions and should never change it. Another saying is that the new Emperor should carry on with his dead ancestors(the previous emperors which are already dead) policies and should not implement new reforms/changes as that will mean that he is being unfilial as he disobeyed his father(ancestors) instructions.

I wonder how true is these.

As in is confuscius really against the idea of reforms and say that customs and traditions should be followed? Or is is just the Qing scholars twist what Confuscius has written to their own benefits?
fireball
I feel it's the twisting of the Qing dynasty scholars. Confucius himself broke the tradition and taught others who were not in the nobilities the classics and traditions of the nobilities for a fee. In addition, Mengzi and other Confucian scholars came up with different theories of the Confucian thoughts. They did not quite follow the original Confucius' teachings either. Later on, many scholars and emperors questioned the ancient masters and changed many traditions of their forefathers. Even the Qing dynasties earlier emperors did so. I think Kangxi wrote a book to show that even a Manchu could become a Chinese Emperor according to the ancient Chinese traditions. Then, Yongzheng or Qianlong burned Kangxi's books and tried to do something exactly the opposite of Kangxi's claim. I think the late Qing's scholars just did not want to change themselves and they misquoted Confucius.
Fireice
QUOTE (fireball @ Dec 26 2007, 05:00 AM) *
Later on, many scholars and emperors questioned the ancient masters and changed many traditions of their forefathers. Even the Qing dynasties earlier emperors did so. I think Kangxi wrote a book to show that even a Manchu could become a Chinese Emperor according to the ancient Chinese traditions. Then, Yongzheng or Qianlong burned Kangxi's books and tried to do something exactly the opposite of Kangxi's claim. I think the late Qing's scholars just did not want to change themselves and they misquoted Confucius.


Did qing dynasty earlier emperors change the traditions of their forefathers?

I know that there were some scholars suggesting to Kangxi to change the officials uniform and Kangxi immediatey ordered them to be executed straight away and say that whoever dare to suggest changing customs and traditions will be executed straight away just like them.

Yongzheng was the perfect example that the Qing scholars did not allow customs and traditions to be changed as can be seen by their violent objection to Yongzheng's reforms.
wlee15
QUOTE (Fireice @ Dec 26 2007, 10:59 PM) *
Did qing dynasty earlier emperors change the traditions of their forefathers?

I know that there were some scholars suggesting to Kangxi to change the officials uniform and Kangxi immediatey ordered them to be executed straight away and say that whoever dare to suggest changing customs and traditions will be executed straight away just like them.

Yongzheng was the perfect example that the Qing scholars did not allow customs and traditions to be changed as can be seen by their violent objection to Yongzheng's reforms.


I do recall reading that during Kangxi reign there some wanted to restore the costume of officials and the court in order to follow the styles that ultimately dated from the Zhou, but was refused. However I don't recall anything of killing anyone due to it. One very important changes that occur during the Qing was the abolition of the lower or "mean" caste in Yongzheng reign breaking a tradition that existed in the earliest periods of Chinese history.
fireball
As I said, Yongzheng or Qianlong did break their forefather's (Kangxi's) policy of bravely agreeing with the Han scholars that Manchu government was a foreign government entity that came into China to rule Chinese. That was the example. It was also a closer example than Kangxi's. Personally, I think Kangxi only used the excuse of not breaking the tradition to not use the Zhou costumes in his government because the Zhou costumes would be Han costumes and not Manchu costumes.
T98G
There is one thing Confucianism could be guilty of and that is because of its anti war nature, the late Qing dynasty was not the only point in history that Confucianism prefer scholar pursuits. Even during the age of fragmentation this was still the case, and it cause the fall of northern Qin when the military revolted because of this policy. Also Confucianism recommends land ownership, so any reforms that deals with land reform was sure to stall.
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