If a daughter of a middle class family in China was disrespectful to the Emperor, what sort of punishment (if any) could be expected?

(The disrespect would be verbal: calling him names. The Emperor would not hear it, but a member of the Royal Palace would hear.)

It would really depend on the person who had heard it. If the person was a good person, he/she would disregard it. If the person was a bad person and wanted bribes, he/she would go to the family for bribes to make this thing go away. If the person had deep seated hatred toward this family, he/she could make a big deal out of it and report it. Then, it would be depending on the officials who accept such report and also the attitude of the Emperor. Many officials and Emperors would laugh it off because what significant or important words could come out of the mouth of a foolish daughter (meant she was young, probably below 16 years old, and not a wife or mother of someone) from a middle class family?

If the officials wanted to make a little fuss for bribes, the family could bankrupt totally. If the Emperor decided to feel offended, the whole family and her close relatives could be killed or exiled or sold into slavery (or the combinations of all three punishments -- men: killed; women and children: sold into slavery and exiled to the borders.)

Many thanks for the information - I am very grateful indeed.
P

Technically, lèse majesté (to the emperor) is a serious crime punishable not only by death of the offender, but his/her entire family too.

Let me add to what fireball said.

It didn't really matter who the offender was, technically - the only party who might freely criticise the emperor might be his mother, his grandmother, and to a lesser extent, his uncles and his tutors/mentors.

However, it was deem unfitting for the emperor to take personal offence at what an "ignorant" girl, especially a commoner, might say. It was considered beneath the emperor to take notice of such silly talks, and a sign of his magnamity to forgive the offence.

Lower ranking officials might seize the opportunity to make trouble for her or her family if it reached that level (and away from the Capital), but as there is a likelihood of the prosecution to embarass His Majesty over something less than trivial, the officials wouldn't really want to blow up the matter either, so they'd be using bluffs and bluster more than anything.

But all bets are off if the topic did hit a sore point with the Emperor.

Still, depending on the severity of the offence, and status of the offender, the punishment might not be clan execution to avoid giving the impression of overreaction and give rise to more gossip, but some other punishments such as monetary fines, demotions (if there is an official in the family), confiscation of family properties, stripping away any honours bestowed on the family or family members, a brief sentence on hard labour or exile.

Please note that the father of the girl is held responsible for her misconduct, so he would be liable to bear the heavier sentences.

I agree with snowybeagle's added information.

The Emperor's sore point could be Ming's first emperor Zhu Yuanzhang's being a monk at one point of his life or a Qing dynasty Emperor being called a barbarian by a Han girl.

There is also one folklore about his being sensitive to remarks directed at the big feet of his wife, Empress Ma.
His wife though, was more relax about it.

So what would the punishment be for calling the emperor ugly?

I was thinking of that example, also.

Hmm.

Did these same respect rules apply to Imperial Princes and clan members of various degrees as well? To what extent, and how dependent was this on the clansman's actual power (as opposed to being a simple guarantee for anyone of the family)?

These same respect rules did apply to the Imperial Princes and clan members of various degrees. However, the ones who were in more power or in closer relationship to the Emperor (even without the actual power) would be able to get more respect; i.e. able to punish if someone behaved disrespectful towards them. I think if a rich and powerful land owner in Hangzhou said something disrespectful about certain far, far away relative to the Emperor, he might not get punished at all! When I mean far, far away relative to the Emperor, I mean the person shared the same ancestor maybe 8 or 10 generation ago with the Emperor. He might be one of the royal blood of the dynasty, but he probably had no title and no power and no one would really give him the time of day. As long as no one wanted to cause that rich guy problems, he would be home free. However, if someone powerful wanted to give the rich guy problems, this incident could become a great problem for him.

My father told me, in Chinese government, one might make great mistakes and still escape punishment (many examples), and one might make great contributions but still receive great punishment (like Yue Fei). The key is how you present your mistakes or your contributions to the key people. That was why Shaoxing Lawyers (紹興師爺) were popular in Ming and Qing dynasties -- They were very good in such presentations.

Dear PaulGraham,

I assume that a member of the Royal Family would hear the comments.

In that case, sometimes it really depends on the conduct of the member of the Royal Family. He or she might react in two ways; report her to the Emperor or probably, let her escape with a bribe. It also depends on whether the lady's family has enough money to afford the fine (if there is one) or bribe the officials. There are many situations, depending on how you consider them. However, some members of the Royal Family (who has no moral values), might even take advantage of the lady (if the woman is beautiful).

For the Emperor, I'm not really sure. It really depends on him and his thinking. If the Emperor is a little tyrannical and has not been bothering about state affairs for a while (provided that he is understandable and tolerant), he might forgive the lady and maybe, even thank her for 'waking him up'. However, if the Emperor is stubborn and did not want people to talk bad about him, the lady might even be beheaded or tortured in some cruel ways (like chopping off her limbs or even cause her death in some very cruel ways).

There is also another possibility that the Emperor might even take her as his concubine (if he finds her words making sense or that the fact that she is pretty). And it could also depends on the Emperor's officials. If they find her comments right, they might advise the Emperor to spare her or give her a light punishment, but if they find the comments insulting, they might even ask the Emperor to 'get rid of her'.

It all depends on the situations, really.

Liu Bang

Which emperors were known to be particularly close to the people? I've always figured that the emperor would spend all his time among nobles in his palace that he wouldn't be out enough to hear any insults by commoners.

Some Emperors like to go out of the palace in disguise for fun. For example, Huizong 徽宗 of North Song dynasty liked to go to brothels outside of the palace and had a mistress Li Shishi 李師師 who was a high class courtesan (prostitute). He even dug a tunnel from the palace to her brothel so that he could have secret meetings with her. One time, she was entertaining a famous poet, Zhou Bangyan 周邦彦, in her room and the Emperor arrived, and the poor guy had to hide under her bed! It was pretty much well known that the Emperor liked this courtesan a lot and went to her place a lot. I think this Emperor would hear plenty of insults from common girls in the beginning before he let it known that he was the Emperor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Huizong_of_Song (in English)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Shishi (in English)
http://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...p;variant=zh-tw (in Chinese, Zhou Bangyan)

http://baike.baidu.com/view/30911.htm (in Chinese, detailed stories about Li Shishi, Huizong, and Zhou Bangyan, and the love poems Li Shishi's lovers wrote in jealousy about Huizong and the resulting punishments Huizong gave them). There is a section from there:



Here is a bit of the translation:
Jia Yi (贾奕), who was a 武功员外郎 (a government official), used to be Li Shishi's lover and couldn't be with her too publicly after the Emperor started seeing her. One day, he met her by accident and stayed over her place overnight. After he was drunk and feeling his jealousy, he wrote a poem to ridicule and sneer at Huizong: "闲步小楼前，见个佳人貌似仙；暗想圣情珲似梦，追欢执手，兰房恣意，一夜说盟言。满掬沉檀喷瑞烟，报道早朝归去晚回銮，留下鲛绡当宿钱。" It talked about Huizong's not able to pay for his fees for his overnight stay at Li Shishi's brothel and had to leave his belt for payment. Huizong heard about it and was boiling mad and almost killed him. However, Song dynasty had a very good tradition for not killing government officials (not including the generals) easily, so he was just got exiled to 琼州 as a 参军 (much lower position than his original 武功员外郎 position in government). 琼州 was the current day's Hainan Island 海南岛, and it was a barbaric place in North Song dynasty. The natives there were using the slash and burn methods for farming (I remember), and I bet they also had tatoos being close to the Bai-Yue (百越) traditions and barely fully clothed being too hot (or could I have remembered their customs in the Tang dynasty around Han Yu's time?) It was also very hot and humid and had a lot of poisonous snakes and insects. It was a very horrible place for Chinese scholars of Song dynasty who were used to the drier and cooler weathers of the central plains. Su Dongpo of Song dynasty was exiled there a bit earlier than Jia Yi also.

Zhou Banyan went to visit Li Shishi because it was known that Huizong was sick. Huizong was bringing her the new tangerines from the South (tributes to the Emperor). They talked for a bit, and Huizong was leaving. Li Shishi pretended to want to keep him (to ward out suspicion that she was entertaining another man in her room) and asked him to stay due to “现已三更，马滑霜浓，龙体要紧" (It is now midnight, and the dews are thick on the ground, and the horse might slip. Please be careful for your (dragon body's) health.") Huizong was not yet well completely, so he decided to leave. Afterwards, Zhou Bangyan was feeling jealous (about her words to Huizong) and wrote a poem: "并刀如水，吴盐胜雪，纤指破新橙。锦帏初温，兽香不断，相对坐调筝。低声问：向谁行宿？城上已三更，马滑霜浓，不如休去，直是少人行。" (It was basically talking about how Li Shishi had requested Huizong not to leave.) After Huizong was well and came over to visit Li Shishi, she accidentally sang the poem to Huizong. Huizong asked, "Who wrote it?" Li Shishi told him. Huizong immediately guessed Zhou Bangyan was in the room that day, and his face turned another color (脸色骤变). In a few days, Huizong found another excuse and exiled Zhou Bangyan out of the capitol city. After Li Shishi went to send Zhou Bangyan away, she came back and sang another of Zhou's poem in the tune of "兰陵王": "柳荫直，烟里丝丝弄碧，隋堤上，曾见几番拂水，飘绵送行色。登临望故国，谁谶京华倦客，长亭路，年去岁来，应折桑条过千尺，闲寻旧踪迹，又酒趁哀弦，灯映离席。梨花榆火催寒食，愁一剪，风快半篙波暖，回头迢递便数驿，望人在天北凄侧。恨堆积，渐别浦萦回，津堠岑寂。斜阳冉冉春无极，记月榭携手，露桥闻笛，沈思前事似梦里，泪暗滴。" It was basically Zhou's regrets and sadness of leaving the beautiful capitol. Huizong thought that he treated this guy a bit too harshly, so he recalled Zhou and appointed him 大晟乐正 (the official court musician) and ordered him to correct and modify the official and formal court music (定正雅乐).

The stories of Huizong, Li Shishi, and her other lovers were good examples of disrespect to the Emperor and the punishments. Usually, the women of the Emperors were taboo and off limit to other men -- When caught, both the woman and the lover could be killed very horribly and their family punished as well. One Emperor had his Empress gang raped to death with his own palace guards. The normal punishment for the women were hanging, poison, or buried alive. For the male lovers, it could be a lot worse. Although Li Shishi was not considered Huizong's official royal concubine, she was Huizong's woman. Because of that, most of the other Chinese men dared not go near her. However, because of her charms and Song dynasty's freer atomosphere towards scholars and government officials (scholars, not military generals) that some of the government officials and famous scholars secretly visited Li Shishi and stayed overnight with her. Many people knew, and nobody would really bring these little facts up with the Emperors. I would bet the Empress and the other royal concubines and probably Huizong's mother probably had told Huizong those affairs of Li Shishi, but Huizong loved her so much that he didn't care, and Huizong only punished her lovers and not her. However, due to such affairs, she was not able to become a real Royal Concubine -- too many people objected with good reason -- She was obviously a woman who would not be loyal to one man and definitely not suited to be the Emperor's official consort (i.e. a royal concubine).

Ming's Zhengde 正德 Emperor and Qing's Tongzhi 同治 Emperor also loved to leave their palaces in disguise and were documented in historical records due to many high officials' protests to their behaviors. Qing's Qianlong 乾隆 Emperor and Jiaqing 嘉慶 Emperor also had many stories about their leaving their palaces, but I am not sure whether those were just folk tales or not. Qing's Yongzheng 雍正 Emperor were said to have spent a lot of time outside of his palace in his youth, but I am not sure whether he did so after he became the Emperor.